Shouldn't it technically be classified under "speed/entertainment" trade-offs? For example, in Race to Run, if you're slow enough, you don't get to use the F1, but that can save overall time. Also, are you sure swerving to hit everyone on the sidewalk is as fast as just going straight? You said you "you cannot drive straight without wasting time", but can you elaborate on that? It also seemed like it was possible to spawn in the mission circle faster at times (one of the Courtney missions in particular).
I also noticed you didn't do things that could've upped the entertainment value a little. For example, you had more than enough to grab the hidden package at King Courtney's between one of his missions just because.
Edit: I watched it completely now, and maybe because I already knew the game, it was entertaining to me. I don't know what other will think who aren't familiar with the game though...
Hey! I'm not familiar with this game!
And I must say, as awesome as this movie is, the entire game has a fucked-up premise. I mean, it's about two pink blobs with messed-up legs in a relationship built on gluttony, who build their houses in dangerous places near water, with the female just sitting at home and screaming "HelP" whenever her mate gets enough food, and the male one going out to gather food and destroying aircraft passing by for points, all while blue blobs who also have messed-up legs try to kill him for no reason.
Yeah, this was a lot more enteraining, it gets my yes vote. Do note that it's open for competition, and a more entertaining playaround could obsolete it.
What if we take different characters into consideration? Yoshi provides a different form of entertainment that someone like Ness or Link. Or Captain Falcon.
Of course, 12 potential runs would be a bit of a stretch, but it is something to consider if any future playarounds are different enough.
You should probably not try to please everyone. In this instance, you're pandering to people who are willing to accept a repetitive movie for the sake of seeing one of their favorite games published. This site isn't about what game has a run, but the quality of runs for any one game being above the standard. That being said, I don't see why you're trying to support publication at one point and then abandoning that position when you realize it isn't so popular anymore.
I haven't abandoned that position. I do want to see a playaround of this, but I'd still like to see this particular movie get published if possible, but it doesn't look like it's going to be that way. It's also known as pessimism. :P
You just got duped again. But that's the point of 'screw with newbies', as our friend AKA so delicately puts it.
Eh, I've been coming to the site since 2005. Just never bothered to join the forums for a while, and am only an on-and-off poster here too. And...for some reason, I forgot about the one in the main site. >_> It's just an acronym, though. Any way works for me. :P
Zurreco wrote:
What are you talking about? What "need" is there to change fundamental tenets of the site just to publish this one run? There is no imperative reason that SSB should be judged on a different criteria on any other game on the site (especially a fighter) just so that we can "get a ball rolling."
No, what I was saying is that every game would be judged on a different criteria. Not just this one. Of course, whether or not a change is in order is subjective. Sometimes they are beneficial, but other times, it's better to leave well enough alone.
And don't get me wrong either - I'd love to see a playaround run of this, in case that wasn't clear. I was only trying to think of a way to please everyone. Looks like that's not gonna happen, though. Meh.
The moozooh said this shit:
¦ "Let's take some ignoramus's words and use them here as an argument, that HAS to work."
I think it was a veteran who said that. I think. Like I said, I forgot who said it, but since it's late where I am, I can't be assed to check right now.
One thing to keep in mind as well - just because someone has experience does not necessarily mean they will be sensible. And I think I sense a hint of elitism in your words. That is one of the more dangerous aspects of experience (especially over the internet): they tend to hate change. But like I said, sometimes, a change can be beneficial. Adjusting can be painful at first, but after the transistion period is over, things will be better than they were.
Everyone has their own opinion on things, too, and as mentioned, there were unique points in the movie that made it worth watching in some people's eyes.
The AKA said this shit:
¦ TAS is a term that has been used long before this site was created and certainly doesn't abreviate to Superplays. It's just a term that was invented to screw with newbies minds.
EDIT: It stands for Tool ASsisted, yes we enjoy messing around with peoples heads.
Ah. I was just confused because of the logo in the top-left of the forums. Good to know what it really means...I guess. >_>
The Zurreco said this shit:
¦ Before I say anything, you should really read this before you vote again, since you're violating a lot of those.
5 and 7 is a lot? Maybe 8, but I was only stating the opinions of others and not my own. And I read that list as well, now that it has been pointed out to me. The disclaimer in particular. :)
The Zurreco said this shit:
¦ The fact that you're willing to concede all of these makes me wonder if you really get the whole point of this site.
I was one to defend the Super Mario All-Stars SMB3 playaround, when many other people disliked it. So yes, I do get the point of the site, and the point of Tool Assisted Superplays. ;)
I am not really sure how we would get SSB:64 TASing really going, since many people, as AKA put it, are "hell bent" on not seeing it published. But I do know that actually getting it going in the first place would be a huge help. So what if it is a "violation" of what some guy said is a popular excuse for a publication of a run? Sometimes we need to bend the rules a little to get by, and other times we need to change them altogether. Change is good.
(P.S. Your statements are not actually shit. It is just a "customized" method of quoting.)
Here is another thing I want to point out, now that I have thought about it some more: Diddy Kong Racing. That game is even more repetitive than this one at times, and it is nearly two hours long! Each track has to be repeated three times, except for the last set, which only get repeated twice. Compare that to the six minutes of this game.
That was a good run, yes, but it is quite comparable to this one in a sense. Take the Super Mario Kart run into consideration, a racing game like DKR. The first version was published before the Diddy Kong Racing one was even released, and it was much more entertaining than DKR. And yet DKR was published too, despite it lacking the entertainment options of SMK. This is a similar scenario. SSB64 does not have as many entertainment options, but it is still good in its own right.
Completing the bonus stages in a speedy version is something to consider as a requirement, even though the "pure speed" and the bonus game goals conflict with one another. I personally lean slightly towards them being seperated - that way, one version has the goal of killing the character the fastest, whereas the other one aims for fastest completion. But hey, it does add some entertainment.
That may be true, but you have to keep in mind that most other fighting games I have seen TASed, such as Mortal Kombat II, have so many other options that it is not funny. Super Smash Bros., on the other hand, does not have a character like Shang Tsung, and therefore has to work with characters who are more one-dimensional. I can understand your concerns with it being repetitive while aiming for speed, sure. But speed and entertainment are often two different goals. You can sometimes have them together, but they often conflict with one another.
The reason why I mentioned "looking forward to" the frame wars was in reference to the Super Metroid comment. Since people seem to enjoy an improvement of a few frames on some games, no matter how identical it is to the previous version, the same could be said about this one (in theory).
Therefore, what I was proposing, is that we have two versions of this movie. One, that aims for the fastest time possible, without any care for entertainment whatsoever (i.e. using repetitive strategies if necessary). And two, a movie that aims to entertain in the strategy. We have yet to see the latter created, but until that time comes, we will always have the former. It does not matter what order they get published in, since the same result will be acheived in the end.
I am sure that this compromise of having both types of movies on the site will satisfy the needs of all but the most stubborn of members.
I am going to be completely serious here.
Sure, this movie is repetitive at times. Any by that, I mean fairly often. But the same can be said about many other TASes, can it not? There are a number of TASes which abuse fast but repetitive strategies that are already on the site. There are even a number of them that are just plain repetitive. Take Battletoads for example - almost half the game is forced scrolling in some fashion, and despite trying to be entertaining during those parts, it eventually gets to the point where it is really annoying (moreso in the warpless runs than in the warping ones). And they still got published. Someone here, I forgot who, once mentioned that Super Metroid runs all basically use the same route, except with slightly different tricks or more optimized movement (usually barely noticeable), which makes them repetitive as an overall whole. Yet, people still go crazy over and improvement there. I cannot think of any more at the time being, but there definitely are more out there. There is no point of putting off a game such as this one for no real reason.
Besides, this game is long overdue for a published TAS. Reptitive or not, there is always the frame wars to look forward to. Not to mention we could have a playaround run for entertainment purposes as well. It is time to put our opinions of repetitiveness aside and finally do what should have been done a long time ago.
Yes. Publish this movie.
Tidal Tempest Bad Future: The (J) version is quite annoying and out of place but the (U) version fits great and is one of the best tracks on the CD.BLASPHEMY!!! "You fucked up, now look what happened to the level" audioified is much better than just a bunch of "Ooos" and "Aahs". And I do mean that description in the literal sense.
And just replacing the tracks doesn't exactly work - like with Track 2, which is the Metal Sonic sound in the US and the Time Warp in the Japanese...
I physically own the Japanese and American versions, and track 2 is identical between them. Track 2 is the sound that was intended to play during time travel, but the MIDI sound effect was chosen above CDDA in the end.
Ah, I didn't know that. Actually, I once remember having a Japanese ISO put together with a US soundtrack. Or was it the other way around? Or maybe I just used the Metal Sonic sound...or even that one US beta that was basically the same thing as the final game except with the Japanese soundtrack...it's been a long time. >_> Maybe it was partially the site I got the ISOs and MP3s from (which labeled them as such), or there's something about the ISOs themselves that was causing it to happen. Whatever the case though, that sound effect made much more sense. It synced up well with the music too. If there was a pause before the music like how it worked with the normal CD, the music would start just after the sound effect ended, unlike how the other effect has that weird pause. And if it's an ISO with MP3s like how I had it, it still syncs up well with the effect, and playing over the music slightly is pretty cool.
That still doesn't change the fact that the bad future music automatically plays during the race in Stardust Speedway in the Japanese version, though, whereas the US version will still use the good future if you got that. :P
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Whelkman wrote:
Sounds great, too, except for the boss theme, which sounds like some sort of deranged Parasite Eve remix.
Didn't the Japanese version have some silly hip-hop music for the boss theme, with a different Robotnik laugh at the beginning?
Yeah. Then it degenerated into "WORK THAT BODY YEAH, COME ON NOW, WORK THAT BODY YEAH". And then it went into even more ridiculous stuff. He also speaks in Metallic Madness' bad future theme, parodying the Japanese theme song's lyrics ("you can't do anything, so don't even try."), except there, he sounds like a robot, and disturbingly close to Microsoft Sam.
Best surprise ever! Can someone please do a run that collects all the Time Stones?
Personally, I'd prefer one that gets the good ending the "brute force" way by destroying the cages. Or a run that doesn't care about real time and only aims for the best level run (some time zones may prove faster than others).
But I'm going to have to vote no here. The US version's soundtrack sucks. I hate those stupid chanting women in all the tracks especially Tidal Tempest and it's annoying as hell and GOD DAMN IT I FUCKING HATE THEM. Sure, there are two versions of the movie, but the US version will likely be favored in the AVI, and any of the "reproduced" versions likely won't be bothered to include Japanese version for readjusted music like this one. And just replacing the tracks doesn't exactly work - like with Track 2, which is the Metal Sonic sound in the US and the Time Warp in the Japanese, and with Stardust Speedway's boss, which starts playing the Bad Future music on the Japanese Version even if you got the good future. And then there's the version BIOSes to consider, which I didn't even know existed until now and even though I have a BIOS I have no idea what version it is. So that would complicate future publications even more!
Then again, on the other hand, Stardust Speedway and Sonic Boom pretty much blow their Japanese counterparts out of the water, and Palmtree Panic is pretty good too. And it has a boss music that doesn't remind me of a Richard Simmons workout video. Maybe even Collision Chaos and Quartz Quadrant (if we ignore the latter's annoying-ass chants) are ones to consider.
So that leaves us at Meh?
Well, there is the fact that the run was pretty much ripped straight off the ones from TSC, without bothering to check for route changes, improvements, or stuff that can only be done on the normal mode of the game and not time trials and precision stuff limited to TAS only. You got one in there already, but not much more. I'd prefer to hunt for those things first instead of doing a rushjob on the publishing of a Sega CD game (See: That DOS game that wasn't published despite it being the first TAS of a DOS game) So we're back down to No.
But it's still pretty awesome in itself. For now, it does seem like it's the best we can do, even though we could undoubtedly do better. Further testing would be nice, but something like this would be good for comparison's sake when we finally do find them, I guess. And we're back to Meh. And it'll likely be a while before another one will be made and/or published, or even considered for route testing, so...
...mes?
Voting no.
At first, I was pissed off about the whole critical hit bug thing. It made me paranoid about future playthroughs, and the remake. But I quickly got over that. Then the constant pausing and volume shifting started to get to me. I learned to accept that, too, and I think there was talk about the AVI being made with a custom version or hack or something that wouldn't have that annoyance.[/b]
Instructions are included on how to get around this issue in the submission. You just need to enter a specific cheat code and bam - fixed.
Yeah, I saw that cheat after I made my post. Just wasn't in the mood to read the technical stuff when I went to download it, and didn't think there'd be anything like that in there. Good thing I eventually did though!
mmbossman wrote:
System Error prefers to have absolutely every single one of his posts to be as drenched in sarcasm as possible.
At least it's more creative than Great run/I've been waiting for this/I liked part X/Voting yes/Good job. :P
On a more serious note, the high byte of the enemies' HP should be added to the "helpful memory addresses" section. It's pretty pointless to only see a counter of 255 HP reseting all the time when pretty much all monsters have much more. They're just one byte higher (7E2288 and 7E2308 respectively).
Voting no.
At first, I was pissed off about the whole critical hit bug thing. It made me paranoid about future playthroughs, and the remake. But I quickly got over that. Then the constant pausing and volume shifting started to get to me. I learned to accept that, too, and I think there was talk about the AVI being made with a custom version or hack or something that wouldn't have that annoyance.
But then when entering the Old Waterway, you brought up the "select an item" menu while going through the grass near the door, and momentarily sliced Cecil in two. Easter Egg or not, THAT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.
Length was the primary reason this version was picked in first place and IIRC it was agreed that any longer than that would get boring anyway.
I disagree.
Do the arcade version. If there is no arcade emulator like that, make an arcade emulator like that. 4 players. Don't necessarily aim for fastest time - aim to entertain. Make it a vicious fight for the most money.
Also, WTF at this being accepted with one vote, but, say, the Pokemon Yellow glitched one, not being accepted until 56. If it meant anything, I'd vote no just because of that.
It's impressive for what it is, but it's just too short to be much more entertaining than the MM3/4/5/6 one. Personally, two more games and around 87 (random estimate) less levels is not enough to cut it for me. "Demo run" or not.
On another note, wouldn't the lack of sliding in MM1 and MM2 make up for them being shorter? Not abusing glitches in them could also make up for the longer time of the other ones. There's no need to go all-out on all of them (that's why we have the standard runs).
...there are clear problems with it, such as not jumping up ladders to get up them quicker (climbing is slow)...
I do admit that there are many improvements possible to this run. However, if you read my submission comments, when climbing a rope/vine (most notably in level 22) when NOT caped mario, Mario cannot jump off it like in SMW.
Yes, but he CAN jump up from the bottom of them, to start the climbing process from a higher point. There was at least one level where you pointlessly started climbing from the bottom of the ladder, but you actually did it fairly often.
Voting yes here.
I'll be honest though: this run sucks. It's creative and original, but it sucks. Even to my untrained eye that sees in 20FPS, I can tell that this is a horribly unoptimized run. The large number of autoscrollers doesn't really help much either. Even barring the L+R bug (which I do agree gets annoying), there are clear problems with it, such as not jumping up ladders to get up them quicker (climbing is slow), and it'd be a an ugly blemish on this website.
But hey, if it gets published, people would see that blemish and hopefully go "what the fuck this sucks" and set out to get rid of said blemish. Otherwise, it'll be like 7 months before we can get another run of this in! Possibly more! We'd be manipulating the TASers into doing better this way...kind of. Or it could backfire on us, who knows? But we'll never know unless we try!
Also, caitsith2, I don't see a problem with this run and e-reader cards desyncing, because the point of the run is replay made on the emulator, and not the game-generated replays. At least, no direct problem with it (if the run was optimized more the issue with the card replays might not show up).
Warp: Take a look back at his 12 previous posts, many of them have absurd amounts of sarcasm. I assume this one is no different.
I was being serious, up until "And hey, while we're at it..." It's not like there are elements of truth and my true opinion in my posts, you know. (also I didn't develop my absurdism gimmick right away).
Oh, and about the Warp's ridiculous example of frames VS time, there is indeed a line (although I haven't heard of the RCR one). This particular one doesn't really cross it, though, since it only takes like 20 seconds or so for him to kill himself (and it isn't widely known to my knowledge, so it should be all right.). Makes for a cooler ending than just flying on up and shooting him in the mouth, in my opinion.
The site's timing is based off frames. Being hypocritical over exploitation such as the final boss here is nonsensical. In-game time for things like Metroid are a different story, but for games like this one, the precedent should reign supreme. Especially in runs that don't sacrifice frames for entertainment (like this one)
That's just a really long way of saying those who are complaining about the final boss need to shut up about it. And hey, while we're at it, why not switch weapons too? It's boring watching people rape face in five seconds flat with the E-Laser. And it causes lag too so why not find a way to prevent that? And S-Options allow for much more entertainment than normal ones and you might even be able to exploit them. And while we're at it, fuck Speedups too. Even on the level where you need them! It's boring when they're quickly moving around and dodging things with ease, let's see more close calls with slow movement, it'd be like watching a sloth dodging machine gun fire!
Of course, but it's less fun if I outright say it's sarcasm. Absurd, ridiculous reasons to give a reason vote the opposite of what I really think should be reason enough in themselves to understand it's sarcasm. At least it's more creative than a "I liked it/Liked part X/Random minor criticism/Voting yes/Thank you/Good job" post. :P And yeah, I mentioned the Mupen thing in my previous post.
And it's only the three posts! The rest were before I started doing this/explanations for people who took it seriously/other stuff.
LOL You're voting no because it's still labeled "new"? It could be that it's still unjudged because the judges also have lives, or that no one has bothered to judge it yet because N64 runs tend to get judged and encoded at roughly the same time. If you'd been around a little longer, you'd remember when the queue was 2 pages+ long, and runs would still be "new" 3 months after submission.
Most ridiculous reason to vote no ever.
Of course I've seen the queue when it was 2+ pages. I've also seen it when it was 4+ pages. I was browsing the site quite a while before I joined the forums. I just don't post here often. And I also know of the problems that the staff has when they encode N64 runs, which may or may not still be around. I was not aware of the N64 runs being "judged and encoded at roughly the same time" until now, and think it's just silly that they do it that way.
And if they have time for something as popular as Megaman, they should have time for something as popular as Turok. I mean, I don't know much about how they do things, but it shouldn't take THAT long to take some time out of their day to set something to encode overnight or while they're out living their lives. Unless the afformentioned problems interrupt and they have to be there to make sure everything goes right. :P Or, to take a cheap shot and maybe cannibalize myself a little, if they live their lives on their computer. >_>
(and of course it's a ridiculous reason to vote no, because it's not meant to be taken seriously)
Gonna have to say no here.
Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing run. But it's been at "new" status for like 2/3rds of the average month now. There's gotta be a very good reason behind this, something the staff knows that we don't. I'll trust them on this one, because the last time I argued against such a point I got banned from 50 different websites (okay, just the one website, but I don't want to take the risk that it could happen).