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goldenband wrote:
One could blur out all the math elements in Math Blaster and still have coherent gameplay.
Excellent. I have just made a patch that blurs out all math elements in Math Blaster: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xit5qqmg57dl9wk/math-blaster---no-math-version.ips?dl=1
Apply it on the original ROM file by using Lunar IPS, then try playing the game. If you manage to beat the game at least once out of 1 billion attempts, then I'll agree that it "still have coherent gameplay" and rethink of my judgement.
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First, I have to note that "glitchless" or leaving the label blank would be more appropriate for this submission.
Second, I agree with Spikestuff that if I had to choose between "no save/reset" and this run, I'd prefer to have the latter; however I still hope to see both published, for a total of three active branches.
I'm looking forward to see a temp encode.
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Bobo the King wrote:
goldenband wrote:
How much of this has to do with site branding, i.e. simply not wanting the site to be associated with games like Math Blaster?
All this discussion seems absurdly legalistic if the real reason is "people like Carmen Sandiego, so it'll get views and clicks, but people view Math Blaster (and Sesame Street games, etc.) as a joke and we don't want to be associated with that, unless the run can find some way of making fun of the game".
I also think this is an excellent point. I honestly think less uproar would have been raised if Mothrayas had simply said, "Eh, I think this is a crappy game choice and I'm rejecting it because I don't think it will make the site better."
You are basically accusing the staff to be hiding the fact that it doesn't want to accept this game for pubblications, which is an assumption based on nothing: I already said in this post that a "maximum score" run would have much chances to get published, not to mention that this very submission has just been added to the Gruefood Delight page. The problem here is specifically about the purpose of Vault tier, and not about the site in general or what the staff want the people outside think or not think about it.
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This game was broken to begin with, but now it's more like completely annihilated. Yes vote!
I ask the audience to please comment with a post your thoughts about this run, beside voting.
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The data of the enemy objects seems to be stored dynamically, which makes it a pain to track down their HP addresses. So have here a lua script that does this for you automatically and displays the enemy HP on screen:
Download DBAA.lua
Language: lua
-- GBA Dragon Ball: Advanced Adventure enemy HP display v1.0 by ThunderAxe31
local camera_x_pos_addr = 0x029EE8
local camera_y_pos_addr = 0x029EEC
local enemy_pointers_addr = 0x027E00
local enemy_obj_HP_offset = 0xB0
local enemy_obj_x_pos_offset = 0x1D
local enemy_obj_y_pos_offset = 0x21
local enemies_limit = 10
memory.usememorydomain("EWRAM")
while true do
local camera_x = memory.read_u24_le(camera_x_pos_addr)
local camera_y = memory.read_u24_le(camera_y_pos_addr)
for i = 0, enemies_limit do
local enemy_obj_addr = memory.read_u32_le(0x027E00 + i*4)
if enemy_obj_addr == 0 then
break
else
enemy_obj_addr=enemy_obj_addr - 0x02000000
end
local enemy_HP = memory.read_s16_le(enemy_obj_addr + enemy_obj_HP_offset)
if enemy_HP > 0 then
local enemy_x = memory.read_u24_le(enemy_obj_addr + enemy_obj_x_pos_offset)
local enemy_y = memory.read_u24_le(enemy_obj_addr + enemy_obj_y_pos_offset)
gui.pixelText(enemy_x - camera_x, enemy_y - camera_y, enemy_HP)
end
end
emu.frameadvance()
end
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Warp wrote:
In many games you need to solve puzzles (such as rearranging pieces to fulfill certain rules) in order to advance. This is allowed. Why is having to do some arithmetic to advance the game an exception to this? It makes no sense to me.
There is a huge difference between solving a puzzle and being required to do math calculations. The latter requires much more concentration and much more learning.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
What law says 'actual' video games have to be for entertainment purposes only?
Trying to answer to this question may bring us to a philosophical discussion. I'll try to express my point of view objectively.
Teaching is fundamentally something that is imposed by authority, as opposed of entertainment which is required by the player. Educational games are just an attempt to make you swallow a bitter medicine easier. Of course, some people may genuinely like it, but it's highly subjective. In the end education defeats entertainment, which explains why such games can't make many sales, and also why no developer tries to create complex games for this genre. Yeah, there are Brain Training games for DS, but these are more like a gym device than a game. That wouldn't be the first example of non-gaming application for game consoles: just think about King James Bible for Game Boy.
There is another important reason. Math is an abstract subject, and history is a cultural subject, which makes both the main educational subjects highly incompatible with any gaming ambient. You see, videogame entertainment is achieved by putting the player into an alternate reality, where you do tasks and have experiences different from reality, even if the game in question is a simulator of sort (race game, 1st person shooter, etc.). This is also why board and quiz games are often considered as inferior to common genres like platforming or RPG games. It simply is impossible to create an extensive gaming experience out of an abstract or cultural ambience, especially if you're required to learn something very specific while playing.
These are the reasons why I perceive educational games as "non-serious games".
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Warp wrote:
The specific rule disqualifying "educational games" is this: "For the purposes of this tier, a game which is a board game, educational game or game show game is not defined as a serious game."
I see it slightly problematic that the rules do not define with any more detail what constitutes an "educational game", or how much of the game must be deemed "educational" for it to be disqualified.
In my opinion, the rules are already well described, however misunderstandings could still happen. It's also for this reason that an unbiased, external judgement is required.
Warp wrote:
Suppose, hypothetically, that for example at the end of each Super Mario Bros level there were a small educational quiz (eg. as a multiple choice question). Would this make it an "educational game", and thus not qualified for Vault? I think most people would agree that it wouldn't.
So the question becomes: What exactly is the proportion of "educational" and "non-educational" gameplay that disqualifies a game from Vault?
To me, judging from the encode, this game looks more like a regular game than a purely educational one. Sure, the arithmetic problems are the main "puzzles" to overcome, but the game mechanics are mostly those of a "regular" game, and there is even somewhat traditional level progression, and an ending.
I've done the necessary analysis and considerations in order to arrive to my conclusion: in this game, the ability to solve math problems comes first than the abilities to play videogames.
This may look like a borderline case, which can lead to polarizing opinions, but if you try to play the game, you'll see yourself how much predominant is the requirement to do math calculations, even with the lowest difficulty set.
The calculations require concentration, especially if you're not used to do math (it may differ a lot from person to person), while the skills required to shoot the moving objects or fly around are very basic (assuming you're a common casual player).
In this game, the player is simply required to give the math answers in some very fancy ways; that's why I consider it more like a math lesson than an actual game. Of course, some people may like it, but it specifically depends from how much the person in question likes to do math, and not how much he likes action games.
Warp wrote:
What would be the harm in accepting this?
The Vault tier purpose is to keep videogame records and thus, in order to be applied for this tier, the title needs to be considerable as an actual videogame in all aspects.
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zoboner wrote:
Héhé!
Honestly, I think bonus levels is a good reason to reject this...
No move, no entertainment!
ThunderAxe31's judgement is neat! For me this game is vaultable but should be more studying and should to move in those bonus levels.
I can understand that you aren't satisfy by this decision, because vault don't need more entertainment than moons or stars.
The only chance for this game, would be to make a run enough entertaining for the Moons standards. For example a "maximum score" run would be a good idea, since that would also mean to do much more stuff during bonus stages.
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hejops wrote:
To be completely honest, TAStudio would crash every time upon loading the .tasproj if I used the GBC core. That's the only reason. But I suppose ThunderAxe posted a good enough reason too...
The core used for GB and GBC emulation has remained unchanged for years. Try using a BizHawk version between 1.12.0 and 1.13.1. These use the same Gambatte core, so the result will be the same in a TAS done in BizHawk 2.2.1.
Game Boy series: Use the best mode
Some Game Boy games work in multiple modes:
GB ― monochrome (the original Game Boy type);
SGB ― Super Game Boy (the GB game plugged into SNES, has a graphical border and some colours);
GBC ― Game Boy Color.
Because the game can emulate differently depending on the mode, the one you choose is saved in the movie file. This can be difficult to change later, so you should always start recording in the best mode supported by the game.
If the game supports GBC capabilities, play it in GBC mode.
If the game does not support GBC, but does support SGB and is enhanced by it (with sound enhancements, screen palettes, or similar), play it in SGB mode.
Only play the game in monochrome GB mode if the game does not support GBC, and does not support SGB or is not notably enhanced by it.
It is worth mentioning that there is at least one GBC game, Shantae, that recognizes whether it is running on a GBA, and utilizes GBA's hardware features if available. Utilizing this feature is currently only available with recent revisions of lsnes and Bizhawk, and thus does not work at all with VBA-RR.
The default options that appear when starting a recording should reflect the best choices for the currently running game, so think twice before changing them.
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Warp wrote:
What? This run was rejected because it contains educational elements? You mean that if it didn't have those arithmetic problems, it would have been accepted?
Not exactly. There are no problems with games containing educational contents; the problem here is that the educational part is actually the main requirement for playing the game. While this game still requires some reflexes and manouver abilities in order to be beaten, these are not the main factor that allows to play through, in either casual runs or speedrunning.
Warp wrote:
I don't see anything in this run that disqualifies it from publication. It has an ending, and it's played from beginning to end. Heck, it even looks like an actual multi-genre game (a rather simplistic one for sure, but that has never been grounds for rejection).
I'm well aware that this TAS showcases more than just math abilities, but sadly it's the game itself to have been judged as not applicable, according to the Vault tier requirements.
Warp wrote:
I would like to contest this judgment.
I still think my judgement was correctly following TASVideos' rules, but I'm ok with hearing different opinions and explaining my reasons. I hope it will suffice.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
Alyosha wrote:
At some point we really should formally deprecate old BizHawk versions. Pretty much every core, both ported and in house, has been substanitally improved since 1.11.6.
My only comment on this is to delay depreciating 1.13.x for quite a while. Some of us don't have 64 bit systems and aren't able to upgrade to BizHawk 2.x.x
What about updating 1.x in order to update all cores? (except the ones that require 64bit support)
I'm soon going to update to Win7-64, just for the sake of using BizHawk 2.x, but there are probably people that can't do that for a reason or another.
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Kurabupengin wrote:
This page has no game name:
http://tasvideos.org/Game/gba-.html
My Spy Muppets TAS shows up as a published run here despite the page itself having no real name.
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Wobmiar, could you give a basic explaination about the route?
In particular, I'd like to know why you fight Malboro twice and why you fight Golem so late in the run.
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@zoboner: When are you going to finish the lua script? If you're going to need much time, then could you please upload to userfiles an improvement of the first fight?
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@PiePusher11: I noticed you added the branch name "Donkey Kong". Using any label for this run is unnecessary, since it's already aiming for the fastest game completion and any other runs that could potentially be accepted will have an appropriate branch name, which will be already enough for distinguishing them from this run. I'm removing the branch name.
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Sorry guys, it looks like I misunderstanded. I thought that the 200% branch was an arbitrary RTA route, but it turns out that the game itself is counting the percentage progress up to 200%, counting:
Donkey Kong main quest full completion;
Diddy King main quest full completion;
All Time Trials;
All Jungle Jams.
Please tell me if this time I did understand it right. In this case, a 200% run would be acceptable for TASVideos, and even applicable for Vault Tier as full completion run.
On the other hand, a Diddy any% mode run would not be applicable for Vault, but that it's not going to be a problem since such run is probably going to meet the Moons Tier entertaining requirements.
Sorry again for the confusion.
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Fog wrote:
Is there another completion criteria other than "all levels"?
The only alternative is to skip the Hard Levels, as showed in the rejected submission by FilipeTales.
The credits can be triggered in my "all levels" run as well, except I did skip them by resetting the console, in order to be able to start the last 5 Hard Levels of the game sooner.
Edit: I've just figured I could save some frames by using a different console restarting method (S+s+B+A). The gameplay in the new movie file is the same.
By the way, in case someone may still be wondering: the credits sequence are triggered by beating Bubble Barrage Level 10, and only after watching (or skipping via console restart) them, you will be able to access the last 5 Hard levels. After these, the congratulation message will be displayed. That's why I added the "Second quest/Post game-completion" tag in the "Target categories" section.
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I'm finally back working on Crash, hopefully without further interruptions.
I'm currently researching on a glitch that makes Crash remaining stuck on air. See the following videos for some demonstrations:
https://clips.twitch.tv/HelpfulObliqueNikudonTooSpicyhttps://youtu.be/5zvRlDMAKeQ
While I already managed to reproduce the glitch in the second video, I yet have to figure what is specifically triggering it; but for the moment I can tell that the address responsable for Crash to remain stuck on air is the maxium Y speed value.
SystemID GBA
010A14 d u 0 EWRAM X position
010A18 d u 0 EWRAM Y position
010A74 d s 0 EWRAM max X speed
010A70 d s 0 EWRAM max Y speed
010E2C d s 0 EWRAM X position (bonus level)
010E30 d s 0 EWRAM Y position (bonus level)
010E8C d s 0 EWRAM max X speed (bonus level)
010E88 d s 0 EWRAM max Y speed (bonus level)
While Crash stands still, all maximum speeds are zero. This value gets modified if Crash stops standing still. In fact, if you poke the Y position in order to put Crash on air, the maxium Y speed value will change to 1536 in order to allow Crash to begin falling.
But if you poke the maxium Y speed while Crash is still on air, the value won't change. So the reason why the glitch prevents Crash from falling, is because something made the maxium Y speed to change to zero before Crash landed.
From what it seems, it's probably caused by the pushback of the boxes, or maybe I should say "pushupwards". The interesting thing is that this minor glitch of pushing Crash upwards can also be triggered by landing on the ledges of moving platforms and bonus level platforms, but with these I couldn't cause Crash to remain stuck in air. So there is probably something involved about breaking boxes as well.
Edit: It looks like the glitch can triggered only if there are at least three boxes stacked. You basically need to break the middle one(s), leaving the upper and the bottom ones unbroken, and landing on the bottom one before the spin ends. At this point it looks to me that this glitch can be triggered only in very specific places.
