This is one of my favorite SNES games, but I'm disappointed in this TAS. I'm with Patashu that fighting (or wrestling) game TASes should go for entertainment over speed. If it's about speed, then it devolves into repetitive combos and/or tactics. Getting nothing but count-outs might be faster than a pin, but it's boring.
I'd love to see a playaround in both Single and Battle Royal modes showing off glitches and stuff like that. There's gotta be glitches to be found in the game.
I admit I didn't watch the whole thing.
I like it in terms of the concept, and I think it can work. But I just wasn't entertained. The Family Feud answers were so random and goofy that I couldn't help but laugh. These were just kind of meh. The narrative bits just kind of fell flat. Maybe it gets funnier later, but it would be nice if it was funny throughout the whole thing.
Would this, in any way, allow for multiple versions of the same game?
It makes no sense to me how a game on one platform can obsolete a run of the same game on another platform (e.g. Battletoads & Double Dragon NES obsoleting the SNES run). Why can't there be runs for all platforms a game appears on?
Which bsnes core does Bizhawk use, compatibility, performance, or accuracy?
I know that when I first used bsnes (the Linux version), it defaulted to accuracy, and resulted in a not-so-smooth experience because I guess my system isn't powerful enough or something. Since then I've switched to the performance core, and it's worked a lot better, but I honestly have no idea what the trade-offs are in terms of emulation accuracy and all that stuff.
It's nice seeing an FPS speed run that I can actually follow. PC FPS runs on SDA and N64 FPS TASes are so twitchy and hyper that I can't even tell what's going on.
Because I could actually follow things, this was by far the most entertaining FPS run I've ever seen.
Oh wow, I didn't expect Cat Planet.
Raocow did an awesome LP of the game a couple years ago. Hilarious stuff. Pretty cool to see it TASed. I vote Yes. :)
Let me just say that if a cross-platform version doesn't exist (or is severely crippled) you'll have no chance of switching the official emulator to this without alienating a significant portion of your userbase - even those who don't make TASes often like to play back in an emulator, because it's a much smaller download and looks better, and in many cases, emulating an entire system is more lightweight than running Flash ;)
But yeah, good luck with this - I would love to see it working well, it'd be nice to have some unified UI for everything.
It seems like a majority of the TASVideos supported emulators are Windows-only already, so I don't think there's a risk of alienating anyone at this point.
Few of the emulators play nice in Wine, either. Even a couple of the native versions have issues, at least for me. So I'm quite happy with the promise of this project.
Why use DirectX and OpenGL instead of something like SDL, which seems a bit easier to port? Well, one downside is that Windows comes with DX while Linux and Mac OSX come with OpenGL, whereas SDL is a separate thing users would need to download.
Users wouldn't need to download SDL so long as its libraries were statically linked into the application, but developers would. One big problem with SDL is that it has very primitive windowing limitations -- you get one window, which SDL holds sole control over. It also doesn't do so hot with direct pixel manipulation. It's basically designed for simple 2D sprite-based gaming applications, which ironically enough emulators don't do (because they're at too low a level to be able to observe what the sprites in the game are).
Using SDL would also pretty well lock you out of ever adding an N64 or PSX emulator core, let alone something more advanced; you need 3D acceleration for those.
The most well-used version of MAME on Linux is SDLMAME. Ubuntu even used SDLMAME to replace the base MAME package in their repositories. And I'm pretty sure SDLMAME shares full compatibility with the core MAME project. I don't know how many 3D games MAME supports, but it seems they're quite doable with SDL.
But again, I'm far from an expert, so I really have no place in debating any of this.
But if you made a fork specifically for Linux and Mac, then that wouldn't really impact the main project. The code bases would be separate. So I guess I'm not understanding the issue with making a straight port of the existing client.
I think the only real issue is that moves very fast. Check out the SVN changelog, there are many revisions checked in every single day.
But you're right. I would rather have the current feature set of the MultiClient, than some limited thing. I've already made some progress on a mini client (basically it loads up roms and displays them to an OpenGL control in the wrong colors because OGL doesn't have an ARGB texture format, just ABGR and RGBA so I'll need to swap the buffer around) but I can scrap it, fork, and start integrating OGL into the real thing.
Anyone mind if I start a fork on Github then? From what I've read, it seems like it would be fairly simple to pull changes from SVN over to Git but I've never tried it before.
I'll once again point out my lack of experience before I ask this question.
Why use DirectX and OpenGL instead of something like SDL, which seems a bit easier to port? Well, one downside is that Windows comes with DX while Linux and Mac OSX come with OpenGL, whereas SDL is a separate thing users would need to download.
If there is any interest, I can start a fork for changes to make this playable on OS X and Linux. I see that the trunk moves pretty fast though, so it might be difficult to keep it in sync.
I guess I should have read this thread before PMing Adelikat.
I know a basic amount of C# (though I took those classes in 2003/2004) and I run Linux, so I'm really interested in seeing this ported.
I can try to help, I suppose. I don't know anything about OpenTK, so I'd need to read up on that first. LUA and 7z support should be possible.
I should probably have followed up on this after I discussed it with them on IRC on Sunday.
It was decided (mostly by zeromus, who seems to be against everything per his comments about mapper 0 in another thread) that making portability changes directly to the main client is not preferred for several reasons. There are a few instances where native GDI calls are made to improve the usability of the application, such as in VirtualListView. They felt uncomfortable adding platform specific code (well, it would be making some stuff windows / non-windows) because if nobody is around to maintain it and it breaks, it's just going to get in the way. I can understand this because I've seen it happen in the past. (I use an old version of a popular Linux audio player that had OS X code ripped out in the past year because nobody was around to maintain it. I'm perfectly content with the version I've been using for the past 3 years so I had no reason to help them bring it up to current standards.)
The solution that they seemed agreeable to was a new mini-client that used the existing emulator core but was written from scratch with portable WinForms code. It could serve as an example for anyone wanting to start a native UI for other platforms. So what I'm going to do is come up with a very simple client that just lets you play games, and once that's done I'll start on a separate client with a native OS X UI and add the features that I want to see.
I'll work on it over the weekend and report back at some point.
But if you made a fork specifically for Linux and Mac, then that wouldn't really impact the main project. The code bases would be separate. So I guess I'm not understanding the issue with making a straight port of the existing client.
I was editing my post to talk about ways to separate Mono and .NET code so you could have it all in the same code base, but after doing some more searching on it, it seems like it would be easier to just make a fork and keep it separate. So I just abandoned my edit.
How much of the client (in terms of total features like TAS tools, cheats, etc.) is tied up in Windows-only or WinForms code? Can't any of it be reused just with different UI calls?
If there is any interest, I can start a fork for changes to make this playable on OS X and Linux. I see that the trunk moves pretty fast though, so it might be difficult to keep it in sync.
I guess I should have read this thread before PMing Adelikat.
I know a basic amount of C# (though I took those classes in 2003/2004) and I run Linux, so I'm really interested in seeing this ported.
I can try to help, I suppose. I don't know anything about OpenTK, so I'd need to read up on that first. LUA and 7z support should be possible.
As far as Mono goes, it is much better. I have a game I made for a college class (using GDI+ for graphics), and in 2006 it wouldn't run in Mono, but now it works perfectly. And I've read that the Mono-based WinForms designer is 99% complete, though it doesn't seem to be implemented in the core builds of MonoDevelop.
The site I'm talking about was EmuWiki.com. It didn't have the normal Wikimedia design, and from the looks of it, there was a lot more content on it than on the one you linked.
I don't know if it's listed on Archive.org or something. But I really miss having it as a resource.
I used to rely on EmuWiki to look up Linux versions of emulators. The site had listings for just about every platform and emulator. But it seems to have died in 2010.
I've been looking for a replacement site. But I'm not having much luck. The wiki was so well designed and had so many emulators listed for my OS. A lot of sites I've found are more Windows-focused.
To all the No voters/Meh - if this were redone at a forced slower speed, would you vote yes?
No.
I mean, I like the run for the simple curiosity factor of wanting to see the DOS Mega Man games, but the game looks bad, sounds bad, and honestly isn't all that entertaining to watch no matter the speed.
I've wanted to see the DOS Mega Man games in their entirety. But it just looks so bad.
I ran the MP4 encode at 0.33x in VLC, and it seemed to play at a more normal Mega Man speed.
The game is just awful, and while it's nice to see the game, I don't think it's nearly as entertaining as any other Mega Man run. I vote Meh.
I've never seen the hack, so for about the first minute I was wondering why he wasn't skipping the intro sequence to get to the title screen faster. Then I realized he was already playing the game.
The level open and end transitions along with the music (at least for the first world) make it seem like the intro sequence to a really cool game. The kind of thing where you'd see these great clips of the action you're going to be experiencing. Once I figured out it was the actual game, though, the only lingering thought in my mind was "That's it?"
I'm sure the hack is difficult and a good challenge in normal play, but as a TAS it doesn't seem like enough. Fans of the hack would probably appreciate it a lot more than I, but I just don't get the appeal of this run.
I already voted yesterday, but I'm still amazed at how awesome this is. I mean, completing a game at 100% is impressive (maybe not for a TAS, though), but completing three games at 100% simultaneously? That's just mind blowing. I am in awe.
I voted Meh.
I'm far from being a Street Fighter expert, but I don't really see much that makes this look like a TAS other than the complete domination of the AI, and even that could probably be pulled off by an expert player on the actual hardware.
What's the status of the full Wily Wars TAS?
Ever since I heard of the game I've been wishing for a full TAS, and then I found this thread. But there hasn't been any update since February.
I haven't seen all the WIPs, as I would rather wait for the full run, but I'm wondering if the full run will ever be completed.
Can't be any worse than the Final Fantasy games, and those have runs.
Honestly, Nitro, I hope you and anyone else considering this game don't get discouraged by the amount of work necessary. I love this game and would enjoy seeing it broken.
Ah, one of my favorite PlayStation games ever. I still have the original disc, complete with case and manual (as well as the second and third games and the Alter Code: F remake).
I think it would be awesome to see the game TASed. I know of the Item Duplication Trick, but it would be interesting to see what other tricks and glitches exist.
It's not a hack. Well, not technically, at least.
If anything it's an official hack. It was a promotional item given away by by the Japanese radio show All Night Nippon back in 1986 and was for the Famicom Disk System. It's supposedly rare (according to Wikipedia), and was indeed a mix of Super Mario Bros. and SMB2J. And I think some of the block placement is from VS Super Mario Bros., but I could be wrong.
I haven't checked out the run yet so I can't say one way or the other whether or not I like it. But I downloaded the file and I'll check it out in a couple minutes.
The game is supposed to crash whenever Mario goes out of bounds. I believe one of the Super Mario Land runs was rejected due to a glitch that wasn't possible on orginal hardware.
I remember reading that the first Super Mario Land 2 glitched run was rejected because it was found to be an emulator bug and not a game glitch. Then I guess the next version of the emulator fixed the bug, and someone found a way to access the same glitch, so that version was accepted (and later improved). I'm probably missing details in that.
Though I don't know if you're specifically talking about the first Mario Land game.
But anyway, if it's not an emulator bug, then wouldn't it be theoretically possible on a console? Perhaps he somehow bypassed an out-of-bounds check at some point? (I don't know anything about how Mario 64 works, so forgive me if I'm completely wrong.)
I am the only person who voted meh. Why? While the run is quick and does what the game considers 100%, the method used to me is kinda dull after a little while. Yes, it was fun to see the Missingo trick in Cerulean city (never seen that before). Props on skipping pretty much anything the game considered a story element. But the same trick over and over is no fun to me.
I can't vote (at least not as I'm typing this, 'cause I'm still a lurker), but I would probably have voted Meh, too. For pretty much the same reasons.
I know that you can't catch them all without some glitching and level grinding. But the repeated Trainer-Fly glitches got boring after a while, and the somewhat long segments of Rare Candies were dull.
I get that it most likely is the fastest way to get them all, but it's not as fun seeing the same tricks over and over. It's quite impressive, but probably not something I'd go back and watch.
EDIT: This post got me to Newbie rank, so I can vote now. :D