Hello there !
I have not been writing to you since a long time. I would like to finish my work on this TAS, i hope this is not to late to do it.
I have done the blue and yellow boss recently.
Here is the link : Boss Room - First two boss
Next work : Pink and Green boss, and then the final red boss.
Hi Ilari, thanks for posting
Way 1 and 2 have the same rooms, so yeah, maybe we can consider them as equivalent
(Rooms : A;B;C;D;F;L;M;P;R;T;U and Blue and Yellow bosses)
Way 3 and 4 have the same rooms too
(Rooms : A;B;C;E;G;N;O;Q;S;T;U and Pink and Green Bosses)
But i have to do at least two ways (way 1 and 3 for example), because they don't have the same rooms and the same bosses, so they are not equivalent at all
Hi, i am back
Today, I can show you rooms A and B, i have done exactly the same "time" for the A room (725 frames) and for the B room :
In the previous file :
The shinobi enter the B door at frame 36484
The shinobi enter the C door at frame 37992
In the new file :
The shinobi enter the B door at frame 36038
The shinobi enter the C door at frame 37536
This is 10 frames faster (i don't exactly know how i have done to make it faster!)
Here is the file : Part Five - Rooms A and B done
Next step : Rooms C, D and F before the Blue Boss (Way one of the four ways)
Thanks for Ilari, Angerfist and Derakon for their posts. It helps me to continue this TAS
I can't continue the TAS these days, i will probably continue it on october, but if someone wants to help me and to work on it with me, it would be a pleasure !
I just have done little modifications in the Factory's level to resynchronize the file. The file desynchronize at room A of the enemy's base, so my next step is to redo this room.
In the previous file :
Beginning : Start button at frame 21821
Ending : Start button at frame 31085
In the new one :
Beginning : Start button at frame 21391
Ending : Start button at frame 30639
This is 16 frames faster.
Here is the file : Part four - Factory and return to the building
This part seems good too, i have only done a little optimisation in the boss room.
In the previous file :
Beginning : Start button at frame 13348
Ending : Start button at frame 21529 (score equal to zero)
Total : 8181 frames
In the new one :
Beginning : Start button at frame 12928
Ending : Start button at frame 21099 (score equal to zero)
Total : 8171 frames
This is 10 frames faster.
If someone break the record, please tell meIf you have advices or suggestions, please tell
Here is the file : Part three - Castle
This part seems good, i see nothing to optimise, only the boss room
In the previous file :
Beginning : Start button at frame 6501
Ending : Start button at frame 13089 (score equal to zero)
Total : 6588 frames
In the new one :
Beginning : Start button at frame 6433
Ending : Start button at frame 12669 (score equal to zero)
Total : 6236 frames
This is 352 frames faster.
If someone break the record, please tell me.
Here is the file : Part two - Canyon
As i have said in a previous post, i have to change the run before the enemy's base because i have discovered a new technique to beat the blue boss faster.
I also try to optimise the first part, the building, to be sure this part was good. And i have made some new discoveries :
- The high jump at frame ~650 was a mistake! It loose frames
- The bounce at frame ~3110 loose frames
- The bounce at frame ~3300 loose frames
- The last jump in the boss room at frame ~5200 loose frames
- Some frames can be saved in Boss Rooms by stopping to do actions the fastest possible, of course we have to place the shinobi in the good area
In the previous file :
Beginning : Start button at frame 440
Ending : Start button at frame 6212 (score equal to zero)
In the new one :
Beginning : Start button at frame 440
Ending : Start button at frame 6144 (score equal to zero)
This is 68 frames faster.
If someone break the record, please tell me.
Here is the file : Part one - Building
No, there are routes with just one extra room (unless some doors are mysteriously closed), but it is unlikely that those are faster than either of 15-room routes.
Ok, if i understand correctly, you think that there could be paths faster than the four i have noticed, if we can open the closed doors.
I like this idea, i haven't think about this possibility before, but i have no idea how to open these doors ! I don't know if this is possible or not !
3) Or are rooms G and F designed so that one can't make (in sane time) from lower exit to upper exit (or vice versa)?
I think i understand your question now, but it is impossible to go back to a previous room, so you can't go to the lower exit, go back, then take the upper exit.
Yes, there are just four that do so in 15 rooms, but I was thinking that if there are some really slow rooms/bosses, an extra room could still be better...
We have to do at least two more rooms (R and T or S and T) if we choose another path, that's why i put them aside
Also, spikes (esp. in room B) are instakill, right?
Also, doesn't all exits dumping you at start of the room cut down the number of 15-room paths to probe in half (the order one does bosses in shouldn't matter then)?
You want to die to save time ? How could it works here ?
I want to do a no damage tool-assisted speedrun anyway, so i can't die.
Hi Ilari. I will try to correctly answers your questions :)
1) You can't go from S to T or from R to T before at least two color bosses are defeated?
Yes, you are right, it seems that if there is not two bosses defeated, one door is always closed :
2) Is it possible to go back from boss room after defeating boss (e.g. G->Green Boss->G could be useful if so!)?
I think it is impossible. When you have defeated a boss, the game automaticaly brings you to the next room. Using a red ninjutsu in a room brings you to the beginning of the room. Using a red ninjutsu in a boss room do ... nothing !
3) Or are rooms G and F designed so that one can't make (in sane time) from lower exit to upper exit (or vice versa)?
I am not sure to understand your question. Sometimes you can choose the door you wanted to take. And sometimes a door is closed. The graph show you when you can choose and when you can't.
4) If you take two exits that take to the same room (say, D->F and P->F), do both dump you on the same position in room F or not?
Yes, they always dump you to the door in the beginning of the room.
Oh, and in case I understood correctly, there are 8 paths that are 16 rooms:
A->B->C->D->F->{Ye->M,Bl->L}->P->R->G->{Gr->O,Pi->N}->Q->S->T->U.
A->B->C->E->G->{Gr->O,Pi->N}->Q->S->F->{Ye->M,Bl->L}->P->R->T->U
I show eight different paths but there are just four paths that leed to the last room (the U room) in only fifteen rooms, other paths need more of that, for example, if you take this path :
A - B - C - D - F - Bl - L - P - R - G - Pi - N - Q - G - Gr - ...
You have to do more rooms to find the last one, it is not finished.
I think it is possible to simplify the routefinding using Vitterbi algorithm:
The 15-room routes.
1) entrance of A -> entrance of F.
2) entrance of F -> entrance of P, defeating two bosses. Discard slower.
3) entrance of P -> entrance of T.
4) entrance of A -> entrance of G.
5) entrance of G -> entrance of Q, defeating two bosses, Discard slower.
6) entrance of Q -> entrance of T. Discard slower vs. #3.
The 16-room routes:
1) <1>
2) entrance of F -> entrance of P, defeating one boss, discard slower.
3) entrance of P -> entrance of G
4) entrance of G-> entrance of Q, defeating one boss, discard slower.
5) entrance of Q -> entrance of T.
6) <4>
7) entrance of G -> entrance of Q, using faster route from step 2)
8) entrance of Q-> entrance of F
9) entrance of F -> entrance of P, using faster route from step 4)
10) entrance of P -> entrance of T. Discard slower vs. #5.
I am not sure to understand what you mean. Indeed i can slit up the enemy's base in different sequences, that's a good idea.
I have done some discoveries by doing this second way
The shinobi enter the T room at frame 49 799, so this is 184 better from the first way, but here is some interesting points :
- I have discovered that there is a time when the shinobi can go through the boss against the blue boss !
The blue boss was beaten in 1045 frames. In the first way, it was beaten in 1309 frames. So this is 264 frames better, a huge improvement !
- The M room was done in 611 frames in the second way. It was done in 624 frames in the first way. It is 13 frames better. The method is to jump instead of doing down and jump.
- The L room has changed. It was done in 656 frames in the first way, but it is done in 748 frames in the second way. This is 92 frames fewer. I don't know why the room has changed.
Here is the file :
Step 7 : Beginning of the enemy's base - Second way
I will have to start again all my work because of the blue boss discovery !! This TAS will take a long time !
Here is the beginning of the enemy's base with the first way :
Step 7 : Beginning of the enemy's base - First way
The shinobi enter the T room at frame 49 983
If you have advices or suggestions, don't hesitate
Thanks Derakon ! Hope you will like it ! ;)
Before beginning the ennemy's base, i wanted to be sure that my rooms order was the best. But how to be sure that this is the best ?
Yeah ... like some mathematical problems, i have to study all possibilities !
Not all because i think this is endless, but i study all fifteen first rooms possibilities (boss rooms included) !!
And it was not useless !
do = down ; ri = right ; le = left ; up = up ! Pi = Pink Boss ; Gr = Green Boss ; Bl = Blue Boss ; Ye = Yellow Boss ;
The U room is the dark shinobi's room. This is the last room of the game.
I have found that there is not just one way to complete the Enemy's base in only fifteen rooms, there are four ways !!
Other ways need probably at least two more rooms, so i think we can put them aside.
But it is very hard to know what is the best between the four ways i have found out.
Yeah ... I probably must have to do the four ways, then we will be able to compare and to choose the best one !! ;)
Ok ok !
I synchronise the file cleanly, i have to made some modifications to do it, few optimisations have been made too, and i have saved 39 frames from the previous file.
Step six - Before Enemy's Base
What a hard work, hope my TAS will be accepted ! ;)
Next step : The beginning of the Enemy's Base :)
Yeah, i beat the Canyon Boss really faster ! A huge improvement ! What a mistake not to see it before !
Then i have a desynchronisation again !!
This time i really thought that i wouldn't be able to synchronise the file, but, after a lot of adjustments, it finally works !
An improvement of 668 frames !!
Here is the file :
Step five - Return to the building - version 3
But, i have changed few frames to synchronise the file and i am afraid that i have lost few frames in this operation. I try to synchronise it without changing anything but, for now, it always desynchronise ! ;(
Yeah, i was able to skip the attack phase of the boss, it gains 66 frames.
Then i have a desynchronisation !!
But, i succeed in synchronise the file !!! ;) hours of work saved, what a relief !
Here is the file :
Step five - version 2 - Return to the building
But i have discovered another thing, i think the Canyon Boss can be beaten faster ! Another work before the Enemy's base ! ;)
Enjoy
No, we can't get any cristal in the first level, so we must have to do at least one level two times.
In Castle level, we need
- yellow and blue shinobi and a ninjutu
or
- green shinobi
or
- the blue shinobi and 3 ninjutsu
to get the cristal.
In Building level, we need the blue shinobi to get the cristal.
In Canyon level, we need
- the yellow shinobi
or
- the blue shinobi and a ninjutsu
to get the cristal
In Factory level, we need the pink shinobi to get the cristal
We can't get any cristal with just the red shinobi.
I think a lot about what is the best levels order before beginning this TAS, and i hope i have the good one !
Your comment is very good because it pointed out a very hard point of this TAS : Is it the best levels order ? I hope i have choosen the best, but it is very hard to be sure.
It is like a very big puzzle ! ;)
do = down ; ri = right ; le = left ; up = up ! Pi = Pink Boss ; Gr = Green Boss ; Bl = Blue Boss ; Ye = Yellow Boss ;
The U room is the dark shinobi's room. This is the last room of the game.
I have found that there is not just one way to complete the Enemy's base in only fifteen rooms, there are four ways !!
Other ways need probably at least two more rooms, so i think we can put them aside.
But it is very hard to know what is the best between the four ways i have found out.
Yeah ... I probably must have to do the four ways, then we will be able to compare and to choose the best one !! ;)