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I like the music analogy :)
Makes me feel that I am the perfect person to do it!
A gradius run SHOULD aim for fastest time though. There is so few times that you can affect speed, why not maximize it during those times. This is a run that can be frame perfect as fast as possible and still be in the playaround category. During the bosses, morimoto wastes time. It is not necessary to do so.
Ans is right on with what should be the goal of a run of this game. It is not to play the game (as Diman does here) but to make music :)
Here diman plays a shoot em up, morimoto doesn't. He pushes boundaries until the game itself is less important than what Morimoto himself is doing.
I don't believe that a game should remain unobsoleted because of historical reasons. If you want to see the "godfather"'s amazing runs, they are still here, just not the published ones. And his smb3 or megaman runs will be far more appropriate.
I will vote no on Diman's run.
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Easy yes vote. The movie was well planned and well executed. The death as a shortcut makes this movie far more interesting and makes the route planning all the more impressive.
Good job.
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I think this movie can be improved very significantly. Upon further examination, here are some of my notes:
1) There were a few moments were jumping before reaching a ledge to increase acceleration should have saved time.
2) In level 2 - one bamboo trap looked like it could have been skipped but your jump was poorly timed. Of course Dark Mana also shows how you can skip these entirely. That should be a significant amount of time saved.
3) A few levels are relatively dull, perhaps you could play with death in those? Try killing the enemies at the last possible moment instead of as soon as the come on the screen (don't do this on all levels as it would get old eventually). A good example is the level that starts at about 5min (the one after the 3rd boss). The level is very straightfoward. All you have to do is just run right and kill enemies. I would have liked to see you play around with the enemies more since there is nothing else going on. The level around 8:20 is another good example.
4) At about 4:40 game time you jump up, miss a ledge and jump at it again. Could you have just waited for the ledge. Jumping & missing looks sloppy. Also, it seemed like you didn't get to the platform as soon as possible as a result.
5) Boss 5 (around 7:30) - you got on far side of turret , shot it and then moved TOWARD it instead of to the right to the exit. It seems the fastest thing would have be to run right as soon as possible and hit it with a projectile so that you are already on the farthest part of the screen when it is destroyed.
6) In the next level, you use the "electricy" powerup (no idea what it is called). I assume it is so you can pass through enemies. Using it is terribly slow. I don't see how it could have been faster than stopping & killing the enemies (or just taking damage!).
7) Boss 6 - it looked like you didn't hit enemy at peak of your jump and therefore didn't begin hitting him as soon as possible.
There were some other small optimizations throughout, like jumps that could have been more optimally timed, timing your direction changes at the optimal frame, etc.
Also, taking damage could have saved a lot of time in this run. Therefore the "takes no damage" may not be an appropriate goal.
Often a takes damage to save time movie is more impressive than a doesn't take damage movie, because health is a limited resource and using it optimally requires intelligent and creative choices. It depends on game. Aim for the thing that is more difficult to accomplish. What we do not want to see is apathetic masochism when they could be avoided with no cost. And what we do not want to see is mechanically stopping to trash every obstacle in front of you. (Quoted from the guidelines)
I think the improvement mentioned in the discussion could shave another minute off of this run. This improved run would certainly be publish worthy and I hope the author or someone else does so :)
Unfortuantely, I will reject this run.
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A well played run of an entertaining game. Easy yes vote.
This game is fast paced, includes a lot variety, and has multiple characters to add intertesting planning considerations. This has everything a good TAS should have.
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I have been recently endowed by the great chancellor with Judging privledges. Like truncated, I will give preference to older submissions.
If anyone has any special requests, make them here.
I am not above bribery. I prefer under the table cash, but I could be persuaded to taking other forms ;)
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Well I was entertained, and I voted yes.
I too worry about having so many Tetris games on the site. This one is good though and deserves to be published along side any of them.
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yikes, the worst ending run is shorter but is almost all the most boring parts of the game. I would vote no for that run.
but, I still find the full run boring too, and I am voting no.
Either there needs to be some sort of compromise or this game just isn't suitable for an entertaining TAS.
Thank you scubed for your help & prompt response :)
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[here|http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3144&highlight=Mighty+Bomb+Jack]
Why is the best ending movie (which is twice the length) a preferred movie over this fast as possible run?
I saw the "best ending" and it isn't THAT amazing :s
The worst ending falls under the "any%" category which is generally the preferred run on this site.
Unless someone has a good reason to persuade me otherwise, I would prefer the shorter "worst" one.
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I am cancelling my submission due to lack of interest. I would like to make another version of this. I would have like this submission to result in some ideas & feedback as to what the next run should be like.
I still find the current published run very problematic. I am afraid since we are talking about non-speed elements of entertainment that the subjectiveness will ensure that no decision is made on any future run of this game; favoring the existing run.
Arc wrote:
Quote:
The coin toss is long and can be skipped.
Speed wasn't my goal.
There is a difference in not aiming for speed & wasting time; unless you think a coin toss adds more entertainment?
Arc wrote:
Quote:
at the end of the 2nd quarter, arc does a play from the 1 with about 20 sec left. He slowly runs all the way to the inzone. The timer said 0 for about 1 minute of that play, thus wasting a lot of time. That would be okay if it were something novel there, but instead it was you dodging a bunch of taklers, which is something that happens throughout the movie.
It's difficult for the incredibly slow QB to dodge the whole team for the whole length of the field. His reaching the end zone is somewhat unexpected.
My point wasn't whether that was entertaining or not. My point was that better planning could have allowed you to do that while the clock was ticking, therfore significantly reducing the length of the movie.
A big complaint of the movie is that there is too much running around dodging tackles. Why add more by increasing the length of the quarter?
Quote:
5 minutes faster isn't something to ingore.
But it was 5 more minutes of action, not wasted time.
Most of that extra time is the scenes in between plays, the plays lining up of new plays, extra point kicks, and a coin toss. How is any of this "action"?
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This movie got old after about 6-7min, though it was well done. I don't know much about it but I remember there being a shorter "worst ending" run. Why is that not the preferred run?
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A irritating bug in FCEU
if you choose a game from the recent menu that no longer exists you will get an error message "can't find xxx" or whatever. Then if you try to open any other rom FCEU will crash.
This sounds like an easy problem to fix. Though admittidly, this error won't be encountered too often.
EDIT: and yay 500th post :)
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One helpful element in mm6:
You can't slide while using the rush powers. Therefore, if you pause the game while selecting, the rush adaptors are not available to you. That might give you more options during menu selection.
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seeing the re-record count go way up in a section doesn't ncessarily indicate that that section was particularly hard. It could be a result of testing different routes, finding new optimizations, or that he just messed up the movie a lot and had to redo it from that point.
I'm not sure that a displayed re-record counter is a very useful feature
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At first I was convinced that this game would make a bad TAS. You proved that wrong :) This game can be entertaining and have a lot of potential strategy in terms of destroying screnery at optimal times, route planning with the moving of the cross hair and other factors.
However, I am voting no:
1) This movie is clearly not optimized. In addition to the first level you admit to being sloppy, there are many instances where you pass up opportunities to shoot scenery while moving the crosshair accross the screen. A polished run could potentially look very incredible with a lot of obvious route planning. The situation seems similar to the menu handling of Randil's De Ja vu run. Take a look at that one as an incredible example of frame perfect planning of an onscreen cursor. Also consider planning your grenade usage, a lot of time could potentially be saved.
2) I thought the same thing as Truncated about the boss fight at 53200. There were other moments similar to this where I thought you could have done better planning.
3) I disagree with the goals. "Aims for fastest time" should be #1 and "destroys all scenery" should only be done when not interfering with #1. You should be shooting scenery because it saves time. Typically, goals that sound like "shoots/kills all x", "collects all x," etc. sound good in theory but are less interesting to watch. I know you are going to blow everything up in the level and it is just a matter of time when. This predicatbility makes it less interesting. Rather, if I knew that you destroy scenery to save time then every changes. I know you had to consider which scenery should be destroyed, when it should be done, and if you can destory any extra stuff without losing time. This will certainly beef up the entertainment value of the movie.
4) Tailz wrote:
The only thing left would be to do this 2 player, which would be hell on the recorder/player. It may make the game go faster to have one guy shot the scenery and the other shoot the enemies and it could also make it harder but I dunno about that. I figure a 1 player run through is good for now, we have one for Battletoads right? I'm sure a 2-player run will come along at some point, it may be from me, it may not I dunno.
A defeating attitude. A 2-player run should definately be done. This will increase the complexity of the onscreen action and make the the route planning more difficult and more interesting. The fact that it would be difficult to make is a GOOD thing and is what a GOOD TAS is all about. Your submission texts and comments suggest that it is hard to make this run optimal. This sentiment is apparent in your run and is affecting it negatively. Avoiding the difficult is a sure way of making an inferior TAS. Do the impossible and you will create something novel that others will enjoy watching.
In conclusion,
This run is a good test run but needs to be refined. I would estimate that over 30 sec could be shaved off another 1-player run and possibly a lot more out of a 2-player.
Your words indicate that you do not plan to make another run of this game. That is sad. I know you are capable of making a great run for this game (You redid your amagon run with great results).
My comments are intended to inspire & motivate you, not discourage. I hope that comes across. Good luck
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Very nice. I am glad to see this project finally finished :)
I was very impressed. The cossack 2 boss fight really suprised me. I have played the game countless times and I have never seen that behavior :O
