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Then I'm gonna reject it for overall sloppiness. You could still post WIPs here whenever you finish, and we'd review them prior to getting a new submission.
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Since both this run and its "hard mode" counterpart are done and comparable, I think it's a good time to officially prefer one of them, because honestly, I don't anticipate any game-changer (pun unintended) improvements to either of them.
And as explained above, I don't see any reasons against hard mode. Which means I plan to reject this one, while asking Aran Jaeger to submit his version instead.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Any news on this one?
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I can't even get either file to complete the first level. Can someone else check?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
Individual characters don't necessarily lead to new branches being publishable. Only those characters that inherently introduce 50% or more unique gameplay (levels, bosses, etc). Then they count as separate game modes and can be published separately. But that's for vaultable stuff. In Moons you just need to be entertaining and have sensible goals.
If each character introduces enough unique gameplay to count as mode, each can have a branch.
Forgot to add, this is only true if a character (or a mode) is available from a fresh game start.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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You talk about unlocking Sonic and then unlocking Tails in a Tails movie. I'm confused. Also what's the question?
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Individual characters don't necessarily lead to new branches being publishable. Only those characters that inherently introduce 50% or more unique gameplay (levels, bosses, etc). Then they count as separate game modes and can be published separately. But that's for vaultable stuff. In Moons you just need to be entertaining and have sensible goals.
If each character introduces enough unique gameplay to count as mode, each can have a branch. If there's a branch that includes them all, it supersedes individual character branches. However that would make improvements to individual characters hard to get through - not everyone is ready to replay all modes just to introduce an improvement to one of them.
As for unlockable content, you can unlock it in an unoptimized verification movie, and then play unlocked content after it, save-anchored movies are fine in that case (provided they are entertaining).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If this was done in a manageable emulator, I'd be fine with Tor, but HG introduces enough problems to start preferring credits.
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I was just crafting a clear cut definition, it's unrelated to personal preference. Overloads affect gameplay, but not stats. This borderline is way better than what is described in the submission text as reasons against it. So now I just need to verify the movie.
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SUPERMETROIDFTP wrote:
Reeve wrote:
It would be cool to see the whole run from a "further back" point of view and it shows what's happening during the offscreen action.
It is possible to reproduce the above drawing with a little code change. The tile size is 8x8. However, the positions of the indivisible trigonometric slope-block and similar chip data coordinates no longer match in one pixel unit. Well, I think that it is a defect of the level that you do not mind as a video browsing. It can not be used as a TAS function. [Operation check only]
*I can not secure time to finish this lua.
Instead of making the objects and the map even smaller, you could pad the lsnes framebuffer to whatever size you want (even 4K), and use all that area to draw lua overlay, be it pixel-to-pixel scale, or something higher. It's just important to keep in mind that lsnes has separate callbacks for on-screen drawing (on_paint) and for video drawing (on_video), and I think ability to pad the either of these framebuffers is also exposed to lua (gui.set_video_scale() I guess?).
Looking at your picture, you already know all this, right? :D
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Having a selectable weapon is a part of the stats I would say.
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Thanks you! So can we finally define collectables as "items you can pick up that directly influence in-game statistics"? As for ribbons, they also have an effect of a unique monologue when you get them all, is that correct?
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Gradius is being worked on as we speak.
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Having very little experience in Tekken, I watched this movie. It wasn't stunningly entertaining, and it wasn't boring. Just average movie, with the same music track, same enemies, and a tiny bit of variety in moves. It clearly didn't look like a playaround while also being as fast as possible. So I'm gonna vote Meh.
It's been said that using SRAM here somehow makes the run less entertaining. I don't know. I think SRAM doesn't make it more entertaining than this mode can be anyway. It doesn't add anything that this mode lacks otherwise. It just makes it shorter, in the same vein as level passwords do. There's no difference in quality either way. Only in quantity (of loops). So I conclude that SRAM usage is a purely technical complaint, because playing the same thing 4 times isn't gonna be more entertaining than this.
But overall, the question whether SRAM usage is justified here or not is still perfectly valid.
The rule about passwords says
The point is to beat the full game; skipping major sections of the game with a password defeats the purpose.
and you can see that passwords are allowed even to Vault if they unlock new difficulty or level set.
Note that even if SRAM unlocks something, we don't allow it for Vault at all. This means SRAM goes through much more scrutiny than even cheat codes, so it should be really worth it and justified.
So the spirit of the rule here is that we disallow lesser "evil" (codes) from merely skipping ahead, therefore bigger "evil" (SRAM) we disallow from this even harder!
As a result, a save-anchored movie must be really entertaining and also really solid in terms of goals. The only reason provided pro save-anchored movies in the rule text is unlockables. Of course one could unlock something and then play it in the same movie. It would arguably be less entertaining that way, but nonetheless legit. And if these playthroughs are split into different movies, we want the save-anchored movie to play through some content that the verification movie unlocks.
If verification movie isn't required to unlock a mode, or a character, or a difficulty, or to be able to play the game in some unusual way, SRAM usage is not justified. Even less so if the audience doesn't enjoy the result.
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Svimmer wrote:
The rules page has this on "full completion" runs:
"Full completion can only consist of optional one-time, irreversible, or otherwise strictly limited accomplishments that can be objectively measured and maximized."
The power-ups are not irreversible since they "reverse" themselves after time runs out, but they could be described as "strictly limited" I suppose. Even so it doesn't say it HAS TO include all such things.
If all other items that this run collects can be tracked in-game, then we can say their effect is irreversible. It's been told that there's no in-game tracking for nano overloads, and after they run out, it's identical to not having them. This does sound like a point, but I'd still like to know how to check all other items in-game.
Svimmer wrote:
I still don't see it as some kind of must. TASes are the runs where entertainment is supposed to (?) be important. Do you think another TASer is going to come along in a few years and challenge the definition used for this run as it stands, because it didn't get those overloads? Is that REALLY going to happen in this case? I agree that such things should be agreed upon in general, a bit of an outsider though I am.
How does it matter when something is excluded or included? If there are really solid points and community agreement in future, it will happen in future. If our points are already solid, the decision can be made now. We're just going through points that are already there regardless, I find it more sensible to discuss them all in one go, and then simply enjoy the results (bullet-proof definition) for undefined eternity. If points pro nano overloads are not solid, bringing them up in future after we debunk them makes little sense. We just need to debunk them properly.
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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You're not addressing them all though. This information is required for this and any future verification, as well as for defining collectables as trackable in-game. Without having exact check steps the definition itself becomes muddy. In addition, if this will let us make the definition more objective, we won't have to rely on rhetorics or feelings (or vague analogies with other games).
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Matslo123 wrote:
With the other collectables there is an easy way to know if it has been collected or not (ribbons and scrambler in menu, posters in poster viewer, supercharges by looking at level and points).
Please post detailed notes on how to check this for every collectable type. This aspect was probably intended to become a part of the collectable definition, but left unexamined.
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Sorry for bringing this up so late but I'm still not convinced nano overloads should be avoided.
In the previous thread I asked for opinions and got only one opinion other than the author's, and it consisted of general rhetorics and RTA rhetorics.
The TAS-related point against them is that they cost a couple extra minutes. But nonetheless they are identical in accessibility to all other collectables. Now accessibility is the primary criterion here. You can't access all nano/health/armor/ammo by simply running into them if you're maxed out. Nano overloads you just freely pick up. And as noted by the author, their negative effects (regarding routing) can be manipulated away.
Matslo123 wrote:
But exta input is trivial, all you have to do is press c, enter and esc.
Hourglass is what makes it so hard.
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This is called a workaround. If we can avoid the original problem, none of the workarounds is needed. The original problem is contradicting this rule:
Movie Rules wrote:
Extra input is trivial to execute for anyone replaying the movie
The official preference is also having the full file published:
Judge Guidelines wrote:
It is preferred to contain such input in the submitted movie
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Even verifying they are identical is a pain thanks to HG.
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If the community agrees to define it as proper full completion rule set, it won't have to be entertaining.
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Lobsterzelda wrote:
Now that I'm done with TASing Pitfall!, I'm planning to look into improving this run. Assuming that the time I finish with ties with Spikestuff's time, will the person whose movie gets published be determined by which movie is more entertaining?
Theoretically. But I don't think we allow undefined number of increasingly more entertaining but equally fast submissions to indefinitely obsolete one another. When one movie implements new time-saving techniques, and another just reuses them while trying to be more entertaining, speed competition becomes less meaningful, and it also makes little sense if entertainment value of that branch is low anyway. We only need a tie breaker when 2 equally fast runs are done independently, neither is borrowing techniques from its counterpart, and the only priority difference is entertainment.
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BTW every time I judge this game I find it really annoying to have to use 2 movies. Hourglass is not like any emulator, and it's unpleasantly hard to just keep sending inputs to it after the movie has ended. It can't pause at movie end, it doesn't display half of useful info that emulators display, and it crashes like crazy on top of that. So while verifying both movies every time is unpleasant, working on it to extend the movie (yet not too much!) is a real pain.
I'd very much prefer switching to standard approach to ending a movie that just reaches the credits, shall we? This goes to both current (and all future) submissions of this game.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
