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Yeah, there are cases where this thing can be used throughout all the run, that is otherwise completely normal. But once you have absolute control over a game, it doesn't matter what you do with it, it's kinda out of serious competition: #4252: Masterjun's SNES Super Mario World "11 exits" in 08:07.53 See the judgment note there.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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And then URMOM
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warp wrote:
I have to acknowledge that the question is difficult. If we wanted to define Vault in such a manner that runs accepted to it retain a sensible amount of gameplay, how would we do that without the rules governing this becoming overly arbitrary, complicated and ridden with complexities and endless lists of exceptions? It's not an easy question.
It already has a whole bunch of exceptions, whenever the game isn't suitable, though those exceptions have also been fine tuned by staff. Yet another one won't probably make things harder.
Warp wrote:
There is certainly value in glitches that utterly break the game and perhaps even skip the entirety of it, but it may be problematic if that's the only published version of the run.
On one hand, it would have only one run if it's what it deserves in terms of entertainment (there's no chance any Mario game is doomed like that). On the other hand, we still accept both any% and full completion, "no completion at all whatsoever" is not what one would be looking for when he comes to a speedrun site. I can put it another way. There's a difference between zero and null. Zero is a valid number, null is absence of any valid entity. So, regarding completion, we have any% (fastest completion), 100% (full completion), 0% (lowest completion), but do we want to have null% (completion is for pussies) competing with those?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warp wrote:
I think this is something that should be decided pretty soon, because it's very probable that such runs will start being submitted at some point.
They will be. After the next fceux release.
Warp wrote:
So what happens if a run is submitted that just skips the entire game? I think that technically speaking it fulfills the requirements of vaultable any%, and thus it will replace any possibly existing run of that game. Which means that there would essentially be no speedrun of that game, for all intents and purposes. Is that really what we want?
The quick answer that comes to mind first is usually "Whenever a game affords more entertaining branches, they will be in moons". But in this particular case, I'm not sure it's gonna work best, because, as it was already said quite a few times, there's no way a 2 second run with no gameplay beats the fastest gameplay-based run in any other aspect than pure time. It's faster, but it's not better. Should I repeat my Demo tier mumbling again? :D
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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moozooh wrote:
For me, a mistake-ridden playthrough that uses entertaining tricks and glitches and tries to be efficient and innovative even when it fails to be the quickest is still more of a speedrun than something that skips the entire game.
Before I read the new posts, I'd like to say that I agree with that statement. Re: broader audience. The point of gaining popularity is not (ideally) about how many morons you please, but about how sane your methods are, since those are what you use to create art. Methods are related to the rules, when it comes to letting some form of art grow. For example, common sense tells us to preserve pieces of art, and, if needed, to classify and showcase them, so that more people could potentially enjoy it. Regarding TASing, this is what our policies are for: they classify, they showcase the records (since it's kinda cyber sport too), they help more people get educated and involved, they help to keep us motivated to achieve better results, the list might be quite large. If that system is working well, the community naturally grows, because the rules are finely tuned, and they can handle big amounts of content without quality loss. The reason this thread exists, is not the fact that someone is just paranoid and scared, but because the recent trend opens insane possibilities, and if we fail to handle the situation, the world changing before our eyes might kill some of the fun we've been having here for years. This is the last thing I want, so a few years ago I insisted on making the unobsoletion system work: we don't want to lose content just because it was unlucky to get beaten time-wise before Moons appeared. So runs that have been beaten that way got a chance to provide enjoyment again. Similarly, we handled the situation when all the branch names were changed retroactively before proper discussion; that lead to a serious mess, but we made it work in the end, developing the principles (or improving the existing ones) of how it should be organized and marked. The two above examples show how it can all collapse if we're not wise enough. But if we can handle it properly, it will function for years. And they show how important policies and classification are for a form of art (that is also a cyber sport) to evolve and to survive in the changing world.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I wonder how it would sound if the site label changes.
  • FCEUX movie - sounds fine.
  • FCEUX input - doesn't work without the word "file". Do we really want to sentence ourselves to using a bigger construct, that isn't perfectly accurate either?
  • FCEUX replay - well, it replays input, producing gameplay replay, it replays subtitles, and it includes whatever it needs to make that replay guaranteed, as sync settings, and then probably other overhead that's not required but is nice to have.
Despite of more people liking "input", it's inaccurate and complicated, overall just as badly as the word "movie". "Replay", conversely, solves most of the problems in my eyes.
moozooh wrote:
FWIW, regardless of how we call the actual input/replay/whatever files, we can still refer to our publications as movies (which is arguably a more suitable context for the word, considering how the publications are presented).
Agreed.
ais523 wrote:
@Spikestuff: an encode on YouTube also contains the notes, game information, author, rerecord count, and subtitles, in addition to allowing players to watch the movie. (So it doesn't contain all the things you mentioned, but it does contain most.)
It's a video encode, so it's arguably still a movie, unlike the emulator file. @moozooh: you forgot the torrents :) But yeah, all in all it is called a publication module, so whatever it contains is a part of it. But the link still relies on the word "movie", and I don't think it should change.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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jlun2 wrote:
GBA/DS
Both have emulators linked on that page.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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zeromus wrote:
Feos, be my guest. I don't like the way it looks, and it's a speedhack, but that part of the emulator core is not likely ever to change again, so its a fine time to speedhack it. Just don't do it for the mappers first, that's too big a job.
I tried. Guess how much speedup it gave. Hint: FUCKING ZERO https://github.com/vadosnaprimer/BizHawk/commit/168120a8a04112b64767a2b35e0e5de0d8b5cb78
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Do the issues you list also apply to http://tasvideos.org/ReverseEngineering.html ?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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FUCKING FUCK I forgot about 30fps again
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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MUGG wrote:
This will make it so the space before the test has background color, but the space after it doesn't. Is this something I should put on your bug tracker too or intentional?
Fixed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Sorry, there's no way to use tastudio for a fighting game. It can only work for all the rest game genres.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Well, I watched them, and I can say that since I still can't watch either of them entirely due to complete boredom, I'm not opposed to obsoletion anymore. Their gameplay is indeed quite similar, and 1p is done with a faster overall pace and better precision.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Fixed both. Seeking is canceled by Esc. Reuploaded.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Are you also trying fresh unzip?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Alyosha wrote:
It would be trivial to overclock the whole thing but that would correspondingly speed up sound. I'm not sure I can seperate out the sound without creating spaghetti, so yeah fceux 2.2.3 is probably your best bet for NES.
You should stop sample generation on extra scanlines (overclocking is done by adding dummy scanlines like in dendy), and cancel overclocking for 7-bit samples. That way sound won't speed up. 1-bit sample DMA is also disabled during dummy scanlines. Dendy has sound entirely enabled, that's why its frame lasts longer. We can only disable sound and force the regular framerate in emulation, so it's basically a hack. And some games want extra scanlines be to added to vblank instead of post-render.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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jlun2 wrote:
Hey uh. This sounds odd, but did something broke with RAM Search in the interim builds for GBA? Basically, when I search for certain values, it displays a result with TAStudio closed, but for some reason with it opened and playing a movie, it shows 0 results despite the RAM Watch indicating otherwise. Example: 1. Open the game 2711 - Drake & Josh (U)(Rising Sun).gba 2. Open TAStudios and then open https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-2O13fpsnI4Zy16NmpYU01wNzA The movie should start up at frame 19,000-ish 3. Add this address in EWRAM to RAM Watch: 03069E. It is an unsigned 2 byte address. It should display 1023 at frame 19,000+ or so 4. With TAStudios still open and the movie still playing, open RAM Search and change the settings to find a 2 byte unsigned address in EWRAM 5. Change it to search "Equal to" and the value to "1023". Click Search For some reason, despite the fact the address above is in RAM Watch and displays 1023, RAM Search claims there's no results. Oddly, if I played back a bk2 file instead, it seems to work fine. Is this happening to anyone else?
It's not related to tastudio in fact. Try this order in RAM Search: - Set region - Set 2 byte size - Set "Specific value" - Paste your value - Click Search Works for me. If the order is wrong, it resets the target value and you need to click New to reset the search too.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I didn't say input recording is bad for tastudio, I just haven't gotten around to implementing it, since controller logics is barely known to me. But I'll take a look.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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No they are not. Clean unzip with no config changes makes proper screenshots for me.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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OmegaFlareX wrote:
Bummer.
What is that supposed to mean?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Are you always just recording in real time? Tastudio is not for that, it's for optimizing your input, which means you edit every tiny bit of it until it's perfect. And for that, everybody uses input drawing: http://rgho.st/8Ygrmdpvp If you're just recording in real time, you don't need tastudio. Record a regular movie and use savestates at necessary points to go back. link_7777, what commit did you add recording to (the current form of) tastudio at?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I didn't say they should co-exist, I said they should if they deserve that. As for technical superiority, see my judgment of Super Metroid: - "glitched" run was proposed to obsolete "in-game"due to the latter being suboptimal by the today's standards - back when the "in-game" run was submitted, the community decided it should co-exist with the main branch, however - when a new run of the main branch is submitted, the decision must be made again, since those are the 2 branches with the most content overlap We should not mess with obsoletion chains for the sake of keeping the most up-to-date run visible alone, we should figure out solid reasons to keep branches separated or to merge them, basing on their content overlap and how entertaining it is. See, technical value is not the main factor. It only is, when comparing similar branches. And it is their similarity that we must figure out. Anyway, I'm saying all that before actually having looked deeply into both.
Speaking personally, I would probably push for double-obsoletion right now while still allowing an optimized 2p any% run to have a shot at being re-published if the audience finds it entertaining.
This is what I call messing around with obsoletion chains. Even if the 2p run is improved, that won't change its gameplay much, so its entertainment value is going to remain the same as it is now (mostly). So we already can make decisions considering these predictions. Note: I don't mean we must blindly obsolete whichever is less entertaining by the statistics, but carefully compare content itself and how unique it is. Come on, it's Moons already for both of them, you don't have to obsolete (unless they're really similar)!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I already posted the question that decides that: Are they different enough entertainment wise? In most cases, 2p action is more entertaining by default, just because there's more of it. And 1p action is entertaining because it has to showcase a different approach in strats: implementing them alone one must tighten the amount of overall actions, that might lead to unobvious solutions, resulting in unique entertainment as well.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Alyosha, since Moons, it doesn't work like that anymore. Here's a list of our games with branches that were considered entertaining enough and different enough to co-exist (as of April of 2014): http://pastebin.com/vsZ8UtrF Notice the amount of branches for popular games, and amount of 1p/2p co-existing, which has been a standard practice for years. Here's the rules: http://tasvideos.org/JudgeGuidelines.html#TiersAndGoals http://tasvideos.org/JudgeGuidelines.html#Branches Also see how unobsoletion has become an official practice too: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14430 This post specifically explains it. And here's an example of a working comparison.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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boct1584 wrote:
I think you've about hit the nail on the head, Samsara. Let this one obsolete both any% runs, with the caveat that "2p any%" is still a valid category by our metrics.
The question is, are they different enough entertainment wise? Any% has been retired from our official system some years ago. Many games have both published, aiming for speed alone is only a goal for Vault runs. Having done some of those 1p/2p runs myself, I know well how good it can be to have both, so please keep your horses guys. I'd better see an actual comparison of differences, probably I'll try to do it in a few days. Looking at numbers alone, 2p has the same amount of "yes posts" as this one, but it has better votes. And with no one complaining about similarity, it doesn't feel like there's need to obsolete the 2p run, but I'll look closer later myself.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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