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electricslide wrote:
Are you ever planning to start caring about the site's goals and principles?
Featuring entertaining Tool-Assisted superplay movies? This qualifies. It's a superplay of this particular game.
Which of our movie rules says "being a superplay is enough to get published"?
electricslide wrote:
What you did last time was argue the following. We have 4 bins. This movie doesn't fit in bin 1, bin 2, bin 3 or bin 4, therefore it can't be published. That's crap.
The fact that your ruling would have permitted a 'fastest run' that zoned out of every event as fast as possible indicates that your prior reasoning was massively flawed. If the 'rules' bar good videos, but let through trash videos, then it's clear that the problem has to do with the rules.
This movie is not "fastest run", it sacrifices time to gain higher score. Otherwise I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Provide some quotes regarding who said what and why it was wrong.
electricslide wrote:
In this particular movie you're now arguing that because "we cannot be certain that this is the truly highest score, therefore it can't be published". Which is also crap. Can anyone improve on any of the scores in this game?
I haven't said that even once. Quote?
electricslide wrote:
I noticed that you didn't actually answer my question..
There is no question in your first post of this thread.
electricslide wrote:
In this case, we have a video where there are clear maximums for each event.
Those are not "clear maximums", because when the game is not programmed to limit your score explicitly, any score can be maximum.
electricslide wrote:
There's no way I can see that the score can be manipulated to increase, and there's also no loops in the game.
The author has already found a way to increase it.
electricslide wrote:
So we get back to the question. What would a superplay of this particular game look like? How would a player seek to maximize performance in the game? I think the choices of the submitter make sense to me. Lowest possible time in the track sections, and highest score in the field events.
Sure makes a helluva lot more sense than 'fastest time'.
Goals need to take into account game choices. Certain goals are not going to be appropriate for all games. In this case I think that what's been done here is an appropriate choice to show off what a superplay of this game would look like.
And ultimately, I think that's the main purpose of this site, no? To publish superplays of available games that demonstrate precision, and play beyond what can be achieved by human players.
What do you mean by "superplay" at all?
electricslide wrote:
And the original ruling was crap which is why the rules were changed.
What ruling?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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WarHippy wrote:
So there does exist a game manual
In the Scoring section it says that achieving 1000+ points in any event will award you with a musical tribute. So while the ending doesn't change based on performance, the content does. There is also even an (unofficial?) Club of Champions which awards you Gold status at 10,000 points or more.
Since the game does recognize some form of high score, I believe that unlocking the musical tribute in every event can count as full completion.
That being said (unfortunately) I don't think this game falls under Max Score rules anymore. I think this run would have to be re-done in order to get to 1000 points as fast as possible in each event and then scratching out as soon as possible afterwards.
In Pole Vault you can only get 957 at max, so either way it feels incomplete if we define winning as getting 1000 on each event.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Thanks! Indeed it's incredible!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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You can help by breaking down how the game actually scores each event and action.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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unwright wrote:
Why is a 2.5 year old submission being necro'd & discussed at all? It's an obvious 'no' and that has been made abundantly clear.
Can we close this one out? Please?
See the bottom of submission text.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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electricslide wrote:
man the original rejection is such crap. Yes, it's possible that the score may be improvable, but until it's actually achieved that the score can be bested, it should have been accepted.
Are you ever planning to start caring about the site's goals and principles?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I looked for "png" and "jpg" and couldn't find any externally hosted embedded images that weren't working. The only ones that don't work are those whose hosting is dead.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Where applicable, the movie must reach an ending screen that positively signifies a game is finished successfully. Reaching a game-over screen is not considered beating the game. If a game shows the same ending screen regardless of success or failure, reaching it is not considered successful completion.
The problem is quite simple and precise: the actual completion requirements are missing from the game.
You can't call "reaching the highest score" game completion because 1) it's a non-binary condition, and 2) it's arbitrary. I may suggest that you're supposed to not fail in any of the attempts. Or to beat some record in each of them. Or something else. When there's no hard requirement for meaningful completion, you can invent any soft requirement, but it would remain artificial, not inherent. Meaningful completion criteria are undefined for this game.
And we can't use max score to outright replace the fastest completion goal, because... that won't help with the completion definition.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Vaultable max score requires the game to be completed according to our general rules, but this is a sports game so it has an additional requirement.
Mothrayas wrote:
The [sports] game must have a meaningful ending point with meaningful completion criteria.
If in order to progress and clear the game, there is no requirement to do well, or not even to not fail at each sport, then I do not consider that meaningful completion criteria.
In sports that depend on a variety of environments or situations, such as golf, completion can be defined by clearing every environment or situation in the game.
With this game, you don't need to clear anything, it doesn't matter how sloppily you play, you still get the same result all the time.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Even if there's such an event, infinite gameplay loops are banned from vaultable max score. Which means you can have a proper max score run that just avoids such techniques.
http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#MaximumPoints
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I think IMDB's system is the best.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111161/
Press the Rate This star to make the 10-star scale appear, you pick one whole star, done! It shows up as n.m, but you don't have to invent arbitrary meanings for fractional points! Just like with actual movies, you lump every factor together and rate the entire thing at once. Also just like with movies you'll know anything above 8 is worth taking a look.
I don't know why we should reinvent the wheel here and pretend we know the world better than those 2 million people who feel they understand this movie rating system.
adelikat wrote:
I just wanted to say that Radiant is very likely correct.
I wanted to learn how to examine the DB and actually check if this is how everything is, but never got around to it. Could someone with DB access figure this out?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So true
[2:54 AM] Woops: I was lazy today
[2:54 AM] Woops: gonna fix it tomorrow
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Since 5.0-11318, MMU must be explicitly enabled for TASes.
Go to Config -> Advanced and tick Enable MMU.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
BizHawk 2.2.2 + NesHawk, no follow cursor, q binded to turbo
Holding the turbo button while focused on TAStudio decreases speed. The easiest way to test this is loading up a slow (in performance on your computer) core and trying to hold turbo button while you focused BizHawk and then the same with TAStudio focused.
I already have 40fps, turbo on TAStudio 22fps, turbo on BizHawk 40fps.
(This isn't the "mouse over TAStudio slowing stuff".)
Should be fixed in interim.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Memory wrote:
First one can be done real time in the same time quite easily. The second is a bit more complex since you have to build up enough speed to get a jump and then end on the other ramp but it's not too hard to get a similar time.
Honestly it doesn't sound like a major problem overall. For a game with no ending, treating each level as its own mode is incredibly iffy. I think playing all the content in this case is saner than excluding a single event.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I'm totally for 2P!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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LooneyTunerIan wrote:
Graphics Debugger will not show up when I load a SNES Game.
Works for me. What core?
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You mean the old posts I made don't explain why we prefer clarity (of regular full completion) to ambiguity (of max score)?
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FatRatKnight wrote:
A "soft maximum" score is also unclear about whether the top was reached. So, why the phobia of a score metric? Generally the whole idea I was pushing in this thread is to allow for the possibility of obsoleting another TAS by a higher score. I can answer one facet of the mentioned phobia already -- How to handle the possibility of some new-discovered "Endless Scoring" technique that break the "Soft Maximum" environment?
We spent a ton of time and effort on brainstorming and the best solution is implemented in the current rules. Any technique that leads to infinite gameplay loop delaying completion indefinitely and scoring indefinitely, is banned, no matter when it's found.
The ambiguity phobia was explained to the best of my ability on this page:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19596&start=25
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Memory wrote:
"Worse" performance ends the first level slower. The goal of the first level is to rack up as much points as possible within 10 passes across the center of the half pipe. This movie ends this level as quickly as possible by making small jumps that don't earn much score. It's possible to bail enough times that you end the level but don't gain any score, but this is slower. The second level is completed seemingly as poorly as it is allowed (minimal height on the jump and then ends the level by jumping off their board on the other side.
How trivial is it to finish those 2 levels ASAP?
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I think it should be about maximum clarity of the definition. "Max score where there is no known score limit" is unclear by definition, and that max score can always be beaten. Completing "all X" is clear, non-arbitrary, easily verifiable, and so on and so forth.
If we know there is a total of 100% items in Super Metroid and one gets all 100% of them, it has non-arbitrary fullness to it. But if there's no known limit to possible score, the score you'd be getting would be unpredictable, not proven unbeatable, and in the end it'd be some arbitrary number. Just like the final movie time.
In a situation where we can clearly and predictably define fullness, we prefer that. When we can't, we allow max score that doesn't have a known limit. We can't allow "unpredictably high score" on exactly the same rights as any other full completion goal. There's arguably more relative fullness in $1.3 million than in $1 million, both giving you the best ending, but there's no absolute fullness in either if you simply count by score alone, because there may be a way to get higher score.
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Sounds like a mere playaround to me.
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FatRatKnight wrote:
I disagree.
Well, okay. We have an ending available based on having sufficient score. That I don't disagree with. As far as targeting best endings go, we're going for fastest completion of reaching this score threshold then the ending. We're no longer measuring this goal as a score metric, we're measuring it as a time metric, as targeting the ending means it's impossible to obsolete it with a longer time, but higher score.
I have a personal disagreement that a score threshold ending takes priority as "full completion" over maximum score.
The Best ending goal doesn't have to be related to scoring, it's just one of the standard full completion categories we've always allowed for Vault as long as it actually represents some fullness. It does in this case, so there's an acceptable full completion definition already. Which means we don't have to go for max score to have a vaultable full completion publication.
If you disagree with that then you also disagree with
There is no other way to define full completion for the game, because there is no way to collect or complete "all X" for any given criterion, aside from fastest completion.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
