Posts for ktwo


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goldenband, an RTA will be ~27:30 with the current knowledge/route. I reckon a TAS would be ~1 minute faster. Compared to what else is achieved here on tasvideos, I don't think Ikari would offer too much resistance. For the most part, it's just running straight ahead and shoot at the right time. As far as I can see, there is mainly one obstacle: - The drop in stage 4 is rare and can appear in different spots. There is one spot that is clearly the best (along the path), but it's super rare to get it. Just trying to blindly manipulate it would take a long time. I'm not sure it's going to be a great TAS, but on top of being an iconic game (although mostly for the wrong reasons) there is definitely at least some entertainment that can be squeezed in. Here are some ideas: - Precision-shooting enemies and hidden items. - Don't shoot the enemies and try to create a bullet storm that you just TAS your way through. - In the same spot as you get into the heli in stage 4 and collect the fuel drop, it's possible to completely crap the game out. It's still playable, but the whole screen is filled with garbage sprites. It does clear up after a while though and the game is still beatable. I actually played around just now and managed to record it. That was pretty lucky as it has only happened to me a handful of times in the past. I've uploaded the clip here as demonstration: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/37632573128480213 TaoTao, that was new information to me! It's not going to be useful in a speedrun, but very interesting none the less. Using that trick would make that section quite a bit safer though, so it's going to be useful for a score attack or a marathon run. I'm not sure what you mean with Micronics' code being weird, but I've noticed that I can't seem to get even the most basic information (bullets left, character position etc) from a simple RAM-watch. Maybe that's what you meant?
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I'm the one who wrote the guide referenced in the post above. I've been doing console attempts for this game for well over two years now. The game is very random, but there are two obstacles that are bigger than anything else. In stage 3 and 4, you imperatively need fuel drops for the helicopter sections. I've been trying to brute-force the drops, but it has proven to be very time-consuming, so I'm writing to hear if I could get some help understanding if there is anything that can be done to turn the luck around in my favor. The stage 4 drop is complicated, so I'd like to leave that out (at least for now). The stage 3 drop is however pretty straight-forward. You destroy a tank (always in the same spot) and either it gives you a fuel drop or it gives you nothing. Based on my attempts, the drop occurs ~1/3 of the time, but I've just had a streak of 10 straight attempts reaching that far without getting the drop, so it's a problem spot and it's far into the game. Anyways, I have uploaded a movie file getting the drop. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/37584614244415990 The drop is 100% determined beyond a certain horizontal line. That line is a little before the enemy appears on screen. From what I can see, the drop is fully determined at frame 1395 in the uploaded file. So the questions are: What determines the fuel drop? Can it somehow be manipulated in real-time?
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Very nice to see work on a tas for this game! I just watched the full video. I have a few comments (time stamps from the youtube video): - At 3:03, is it really faster to go left and do the double-jump instead of taking out the enemy and climbing up behind him? - At 6:18, wouldn't a double-jump to the left be faster? - At 7:09 (second to last room), you stop to take out an enemy. That enemy is special and you can run straight through it without getting knocked back or losing speed. It will cost 1 or 2 health though from what I remember. These were just from top of my head. I haven't tested it out or anything (I can't get bizhawk working, so I don't think I could use your input file). It's also cool that you found several things that look useful in real time. Your solution for the last room is very elegant. I can't believe we overlooked that when whitehat and I worked on the routing.
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The despawning is a very precise trick. If you just stop holding A for one frame a little before frame 640, the memory value won't change to 0. I can make a new movie for you, but it should be easy enough for you to just use the existing movie.
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feos, I actually have it recorded, just that it was done on the E-version (because I only had a pal-console at that time). Quote from page 5 of this thread:
* I've managed to despawn one of the final boss's eyes a couple of more times and also got it recorded with a newer emu (fceux 2.1.4a, (E) [!]-rom): http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1267680606/Solar%20Jetman%20-%20Hunt%20for%20the%20Golden%20Warpship%20%28E%29.fm2 The addresses 0461, 0C61, 1461 and 1C61 all change value from 94 to 0 at frame 640 and that's what triggers the despawning. The other eyes have neighboring addresses, but I've never managed to despawn any of them.
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I did some real-time testing regarding the despawning of the fifth eye of the last boss. I used FatRatKnight's video and made a save states a little before the area I've had the most luck with previously for the despawning. I first wanted to do a few test attempts to get a feeling for the game again. On the third try, I managed to get it. I then spent well over an hour trying to replicate it while recording but to no avail. From what I remember, I used to have ~10% success rate of despawning the eye on the pal-version, so not succeeding for over an hour seems exceptional. As I mentioned in my previous posts on this trick, I know the RAM-address to look at, but I don't understand the underlying mechanics that allow this. I therefore don't know if it's more difficult on the ntsc-version (but I can at least confirm that it's still possible) or if it's just something about memory state of the movie file that makes it difficult. I plan to eventually get back to this game for a console speedrun, which means I'll get many more opportunities to test this under different conditions. I'll post here if I find something of interest (unless the trick has already been figured out by then).
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Most of it was awesome!!! I admit that I still voted "meh"... I think it was disappointing to not despawn the fifth eye of the final boss (1 second lost?). If I can manage to do it in real time, I think it should also be included in a tas... Granted, I don't remember if I tested it on the ntsc-version or not, but I would have been happy to assist in some way with this trick, had known there was an issue.
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Nice to see you make progress. I don't understand the need for time bombs on planet 13 either. It looks like it should be possible to slip by the big enemy twice without really any time loss. If not, don't you have enough time to shoot it with the regular gun on the way back?
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FatRatKnight wrote:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/8812040509984293 Uh... What. Is. Going. On...? ... If it comes down to being an emulator glitch, I'd like to know.
This has happened a few times for me on console. Not common, but not that extreme either. I have not had any of the other similar enemies (on the warps route) fly off like that.
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Very much enjoying the progress here! The only place you need one of the weapon upgrades in a warp run is against a big enemy at the bottom of planet 13. It blocks a passage and its front cannot be damaged with the pea shooter. I won't say that it's impossible to bypass it somehow like the enemy on planet 7, but just hat I've never managed to do it. I would suggest that you investigate if that's possible or not fairly soon. If it turns out that you can't bypass it and therefore need to buy time bombs or star bullets, I think the whole idea with the upgraded pod has to be questioned (I can't see how you can get that much extra money). The crystal trick looks awesome in my opinion, but I'm curious if having the option to drag the small wormholes to the fuel cells will really save you that much time. The layouts for planet 12 and 13 just don't seem to give much benefit from that option. Still, it will definitely save some time so you should of course try it out (provided you can solve the financial situation for getting the upgraded pod).
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As for the tunnel ahead, I can see it being troublesome. One trick I found was that by pointing the pod one notch counter-clockwise ("5 to 12") increased the lifting power dramatically compared to "12 o'clock". Of course that would slow down your horizontal speed in the tunnel section, but maybe it'll allow you to reach a better place to bounce off of? Just an idea. I played around with the upgraded pods some time ago and didn't notice any major improvement with them other than the ones you mentioned. In any case, they were also helpless on planet 12 without boosters. I don't see any way around buying double-strength boosters after planet 7 either (unless you find some new exploit of course). For information, I did get my best console run published on sda. Most of it is of course too basic to be used in a tas, but maybe you'll find something of use that's not already mentioned.
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Thanks Warepire. I have uploaded the file now. It's important to note that this was done in real-time just to show the concept of bypassing the enemy in question. It's not meant to be optimized by any means.
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Great to see someone working on this again. I saw you had trouble bypassing the big enemy on planet 7. I just tried it out and managed to get it after a few tries. I have it recorded (on the U-version). Unfortunately, I don't remember how to upload movies here anymore... If you're still interested, let me know where I can put the fm2-file.
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I've continued playing this game on console. Today, I finished the game in what at least looked kind of like a speedrun. I think the run itself is of limited interest for this site, so I won't link it here (it's on my youtube channel, which can be found through my profile if anyone is interested though). The reason I'm posting is that I've come across a few ideas that could be used in an improvement of the current tas and I figured it'd be worth documenting them: * I've managed to despawn one of the final boss's eyes a couple of more times and also got it recorded with a newer emu (fceux 2.1.4a, (E) [!]-rom): http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1267680606/Solar%20Jetman%20-%20Hunt%20for%20the%20Golden%20Warpship%20%28E%29.fm2 The addresses 0461, 0C61, 1461 and 1C61 all change value from 94 to 0 at frame 640 and that's what triggers the despawning. The other eyes have neighboring addresses, but I've never managed to despawn any of them. Unfortunately, I lack enough knowledge in the deeper arts of tasing to pursue the task of understanding why the value changes. * There is a faster route through the level 12 labyrinth than in the current tas. It's kind of obvious by watching a map of the labyrinth, but if anyone is still wondering about it, I used the faster route in my console speedrun. * I'd like to suggest the use of star bullets instead of time bombs in a tas. Star bullets can take out all the required enemies in a game through 1-7-8-13-12. The advantage is that gravity balls can be shot from afar and thus preventing them to slow the ship down. * I've somehow managed to squeeze past the first huge enemy ship in level 7 while carrying the first fuel cell (on the left side) a few times. I don't have a recording of it, but it's definitely faster than shooting the enemy ship with the standard gun, which is the only other alternative. Needless to say, I'd be VERY interested in seeing progress on a new tas of this game (preferably both one with warps and one without warps).
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I've toyed around with the idea of a console speedrun of this game. To try out how hard this would be, I made real-time emulator movies of each level. When I came to the final boss, only 4 out of 5 eyes spawned. The eyes are kind of slow to kill, so this saves time both in a tas and a console speedrun. The movie: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/311107433/12Solar%20Jetman%20-%20Hunt%20for%20the%20Golden%20Warpship%20%28E%29%20%5B%21%5D.fcm . It was recorded with fceu-0.98.15 with the (E) [!]-version of the game. Sorry for the old emulator, but the gameplay gets choppy on my computer if I use something else. I also apologize for the 13 minutes or so with not-so-hot gameplay (as mentioned, this was just a "feasibility study" and not intended to be optimized). Anyways, if anyone is interested in this game and decides to figure out what causes the despawning of the last boss' eyes, if it can be done consistently and if it's possible to despawn more eyes, I'd be very interested to know about it.
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agwawaf wrote:
ktwo wrote:
- In room 35, was it really faster to create a block at L4 (L - column and 4 - row) ? - In room 44, wouldn't it be faster to create a block at B11 ?
I tried again right now. In room 35, it was 2frames faster and 10-game time better than not creating there. In room 44, I didn't know how to clear the stage if I don't create a block at B11. Is B11 next to mirror? Well, I watched speedrun of this game today. Maybe ドアラー is a player who made it on nicovideo.
Thanks for taking the time to try out room 35. There seems to be some confusion about room 44. I'm not sure I understand your answer, so I'll try to rephrase myself instead. B11 is one square to the right and one up from the mirror. And to be perfectly clear. B is the second column from the left and 11 is the 11th row from the top. If it's still unclear, let me know. My question was whether creating a block in that space would save time ? The only decent speedrun on nicovideos that I'm aware of is http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm1091455 (rts). Was that the video you were watching ? My web browser's search function could at least not find "ドアラー" on that page.
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First of all, I'm not going to vote. I leave that to people who know more about tas:ing. Ok, now when that's out of the way I have to say that it was a pretty awesome run ! Lots of nice findings and nifty new solutions. I have a few comments though (that might be useful to take into account for those who actually vote). - Like I mentioned in the forum thread, I'm pretty sure the beginning could be faster. With a different fireball management, I believe 1-1.5 seconds could be saved. - In room 35, was it really faster to create a block at L4 (L - column and 4 - row) ? - In room 44, wouldn't it be faster to create a block at B11 ? Note the question marks for the last two comments. My tas skills are too limited to test them out, but I'm sure it would be easy for you. Finally, thanks for giving me credits. In the case of room 45, it's however partly undeserved. I might have contributed the idea here, but I got it from the Japanese player who made the run on nicovideo (sorry, but I can't make out his name...). In any case, I agree that it's nice when tas:ers and console speedrunners can help eachother out.
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agwawaf wrote:
ktwo wrote:
Same remark as Bisqwit for room 8. I'm surprised if this is really the fastest solution...
I don't know that is the fastest solution. I lost about 90frames on room8, so that I saved about 130frames on room11. So that was faster solution.
How about this ? (game time lost (+) or gained (-) compared to your test run within brackets.) - Pick up fireball in room 1 (+20). - Don't use super fireball in room 6 (+90). - Use bisqwit's solution in room 8 (-120). - Use 1 super fireball instead of 2 fireballs in room 11 (-20). - Skip the fireball in room 13 (-40). (or maybe this particular fireball could save more time somewhere else than it costs to pick up ?) When you leave room 13, you should have the same stats as in your run (2 normal fireballs) and you can proceed as before. I know the game timer is a bit messed up so the above is approximates, but it might be worth a try.
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Nice to see activity for this game. I assume that the next version will contain even more optimizations, but I thought I'd point out a few question marks I had after watching it once. I hope I'm not repeating too much of what you already knew. - Same remark as Bisqwit for room 8. I'm surprised if this is really the fastest solution... - Did the block created under the first red flame that was dropped in room 44 really save any time ? - What you already said about room 45. If pictures say more than words, there is both the nicovideo run and the sda run to demonstrate the idea. Finally, as a console speedrunner, I was happy after having watched the solution for the prinsess room. Should be doable in real-time and would save a couple of seconds. I'm looking forward to the final product.
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Check out 17 seconds into this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S9NYizzIv8 I accidentally jumped on the first enemy and it dropped a cheese. Have you seen this before ? No need to mention that this could break the game pretty hard if there was a way to have enemies dropping items... This was done on console, so it could of course be the game/console bugging out on me. Whatever the reason is, I take this as the game politely reminding me that I've been playing enough and should get out and enjoy some of the nice weather... :-P
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Spent some time today to practice on console and came up with the following : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeAA4ftm0bo It's around 40 seconds faster than my sda-run. I'd like to improve it by another 30s or so, but as far as the route goes, it feels pretty good. The route should be pretty close to the tas-route. Check it out. If not for anything else, it'll be a good opportunity to check for yourself once and for all how much a diamond is worth... ;-) Comments - I pick up the umbrella before the freezer. It costs half a second, but I'm more consistent with that. - The execution towards the end is horrible. Sorry about that, but it's a wip, so take it for what it is.
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ventuz wrote:
ktwo wrote:
- You should skip either the diamond outside the house or the one in the pond. You ended with 2k to spare and there is the gold bar (2k) outside the house that is easy to get.
Hmm maybe that could work, but will need 3400 cash this way. 2k Gold bar outside, 500 from Wednesday room, 500x2 from the pond.
I think you mean 2400 (a diamond is worth 4k). 2k bar outside and 500 from Wednesday's room.
ventuz wrote:
ktwo wrote:
- I assume you didn't spend too much time on optimising the pond, but I thought I should mention that you can swim into some of the rock walls in the pond. See attached movie (US-rom this time :-) ) to get an idea of the concept.
Yeah I know from seeing your SDA run, doing tas in Wood, Pond, and Dining room is pain in the ass.
Ok, I should have expressed myself more clearly. I was not talking about the going through the rock wall near the spanner (but that would also save a bit of time). I was talking about entering solid rock in the background. Check out the movie in my previous post and you'll see what I mean.
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Lots of new ideas and tricks ! I think most of it can be applied in a console run as well (however, I'm starting to get concerned about the increase in difficulty all these tricks are inducing). I have lots of comments, but since you said this was only to show the route, I'm not going to go too much into detail. - I'm curious as to why you didn't death abuse more. The green room (with the bone) ? The kitchen ? They don't save much time, but they some time, right ? - You should skip either the diamond outside the house or the one in the pond. You ended with 2k to spare and there is the gold bar (2k) outside the house that is easy to get. - I assume you didn't spend too much time on optimising the pond, but I thought I should mention that you can swim into some of the rock walls in the pond. See attached movie (US-rom this time :-) ) to get an idea of the concept. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1384374095/Addams%20Family%2C%20The%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D-swim_in_rock.fm2
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Ok, so I got the 2.1.4a and I can confirm that your first wip desynched for me because of the wrong emu-version I used for the playback. Now I'm starting to better understand some of your comments. I made a new movie with some minor route changes. However, I'm much in doubt whether you plan to use continues or not. If not, our routes will be quite different and I'm not going to bother you too much with my route here. Comments about what you have said above and your wip so far - It's faster to take all the money bags in the ball room before entering the garden (edit: wood). This saves entering and exiting the ball room a second time and you will also avoid waiting a moment for the dancers to start dancing. - I was able to be >100 frames faster than your wip in the freezer by using thing. This also takes into account going up and down the stairs once in the main hall (which would be the cost of getting thing before the freezer). This was done without using frame advance so I'm sure the actual difference would be closer to 200 frames in favor of picking up thing first. Of course, the question becomes moot if you plan to use continues since thing can then be picked up without any time loss before the freezer. - The zipping in the landing looks neat, but I guess it's a tas-only trick ?