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Cpadolf wrote:
Haven't watched the whole run, only bits and pieces, but I saw a part of the twitch video where you were unsure of how I charged a bluesuit on the treadmills in WS. I'm fairly sure that's not an emulation error but something that happens when you unmorph at exactly the right distance from the floor (in such a way that there's no airtime before hitting the floor but also so that you don't touch the floor until you're fully unmorphed). For whatever reason this will make you unaffected by the treadmill. Possibly related to this is that if you do it correctly your vertical speed will not be reset like it usually is when touching the ground, but will freeze in the value it had just before landing until you jump/crouch which will also make you affected by the treadmill again.
Might watch more of the run later to see if there's any more interesting questions that are brought up in the run.
CPAdolf!!! Thank you for you comment! You have been my favorite TASer and you are certainly my Hero! I would love to meet up with you on Skype sometime and talk about these crazy things that I experienced. Just want you to know...that I forgot to write in your name in my original submission and definitely didn't want to falsly take credit for your work. This can be verified by looking at my Spore Spawn TASes submissions. It was just a mistake. BTW, I plan on redoing this and hoping to chop off more time. I would love your input. I'll also be working with EternisedDragon on the second version. If you are interested...please just send a private message to my twitch account.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Heidman wrote:
nymx, a lot of the flame is coming from the lack of information in the submission text and it has been noted by a few others here. It is not about the game itself, it is how it was brought to the table with nearly no information. If you were to take the time and make a proper submission text, I am sure most of this would stop. This can be done by properly crediting everyone who was involved in making this tas, why and where the 90 seconds of improvement you believe are present, and an explanation on why the route takes the past that is does. Just mention anything That COULD be relevant.
I think its too late now.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 813
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Tangent wrote:
nymx wrote:
It just seems that SM is hated so much that any new developments in our community will be rejected. At least you have been kind about it.
Instead of claiming persecution, talking about what other communities think, how much work you put in, how that work was put in, how the TAS was made, so on and so forth, you should focus on the run and what its merits are. What does this add that the current runs do not have?
TAS related talk? that is what this thread started out to be, but for some reason TASVideos seems to show a lot of hatred towards Super Metroid. Now I find myself defending this because people are making accusations that are not true. We simply wanted to produce a video that would fulfill the category for 100% Map Completion, as worked on by our community of speedrunners in the Super Metroid Deer Tier collective. We acknowledge that CPAdolf's content is in Ceres...yes, but it has been heavily modified thereafter.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1645)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 813
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Heidman wrote:
This may seem like shots fired, but I think most people here are being too critical for the situation. This game has been chewed up and spit out so many times over the years because it is such a great game. But I believe that regular viewers are either burnt out on this game or have their expectations too high.
I personally like this category as it shows more of the game off, but 100% items and 100% map together would make for a better tas as it would show the game in its entirety... depending on if oob is used o not.
I dont see too many glaring issues. The rng could be manipulated a bit better to have drops that are wanted, but it was only in a few locations. Some talk about going too far into a room rather than immediately turning around I only saw 2-3 times and each time I saw justification for it, better ball speed or better space jump speed. I also see a bunch of "it is not optimized" but with nothing to point out. That is not constructive or a question as to why the author did as they did to get an explanation of some kind.
My point is if anyone is going to throw out some criticism, at least let it have a purpose rather than just blatantly throwing out hate and negativity.
As for the other issues of copy and paste other authors work is an issue for the admins. I cant say anything about that other than my opinion and believe it should be rejected on that alone.
As far as entertainment, I do feel like it could be a valid category. I enjoyed it as I was watching the map in a bunch of spots to where as during other categories I never look at the map at any point unless oob is used. That alone give the average viewer more to watch for other than the precise movements that only an experienced viewer/player would see. I give this a meh vote. I would easily given it yes vote but I cant overlook the copyright issue present.
Oh...one more thing. TASVideos makes it clear that copying scripts is alright, as long as you make reference to...which I'm sorry that I didn't do that until this morning. They even discuss the idea of Frame Wars, which means that we are not expected to write our own script everytime we create a new TAS. It is just pointless to optimize a run that has already been maxed out. You'll find that the majority of my TAS over 95% is mine for a good reason. There isn't anything out there that can be copied to accomplish the goals for this category.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 813
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Heidman wrote:
This may seem like shots fired, but I think most people here are being too critical for the situation. This game has been chewed up and spit out so many times over the years because it is such a great game. But I believe that regular viewers are either burnt out on this game or have their expectations too high.
I personally like this category as it shows more of the game off, but 100% items and 100% map together would make for a better tas as it would show the game in its entirety... depending on if oob is used o not.
I dont see too many glaring issues. The rng could be manipulated a bit better to have drops that are wanted, but it was only in a few locations. Some talk about going too far into a room rather than immediately turning around I only saw 2-3 times and each time I saw justification for it, better ball speed or better space jump speed. I also see a bunch of "it is not optimized" but with nothing to point out. That is not constructive or a question as to why the author did as they did to get an explanation of some kind.
My point is if anyone is going to throw out some criticism, at least let it have a purpose rather than just blatantly throwing out hate and negativity.
As for the other issues of copy and paste other authors work is an issue for the admins. I cant say anything about that other than my opinion and believe it should be rejected on that alone.
As far as entertainment, I do feel like it could be a valid category. I enjoyed it as I was watching the map in a bunch of spots to where as during other categories I never look at the map at any point unless oob is used. That alone give the average viewer more to watch for other than the precise movements that only an experienced viewer/player would see. I give this a meh vote. I would easily given it yes vote but I cant overlook the copyright issue present.
Thanks Heidman. Your comment has been received more positively. It just seems that SM is hated so much that any new developments in our community will be rejected. At least you have been kind about it.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1645)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 813
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Kurabupengin wrote:
The amount of 1st post lurkers is suspicious... are we under attack?
Oh my...each of those "lurkers" are members of our Super Metroid community. Their identities are legit and can be found as active members on Deertier.com
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
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[The submission text says that 90 seconds of improvement are possible. If there are 90 known seconds of improvement, then the site publishing this would be against its stated mission.
What would you have me do? Lie? Even CPAdolf, Saturn admitted to inefficiencies, only to be followed up by improved runs. If they are not perfect, then you should accept it. That would exclude a lot of videos. But as it stands, there is no way to determine that. If we find discrepancies all the time, videos will never get published...because it takes too much time.
100% map completion, in my mind, for this site, overlaps with 100% items, because you visit every item's room but ignore many of them in the process of turning the rooms pink. Something that strikes me as odd about the run itself is that it manages to be slower than the 100% items run, suggesting that waiting through 66% items worth of the item chime delay is actually faster than touching every square of the map.
This is an example of why the scrutiny of my TAS is harsh...If you look at Zoast's 100% Item, the time is 1:17:07 (no intro), while CPAdolf's is 1:08:15 (with intro). While SweetNumb's 100% Map Completion is 1:23:03 to my 1:14:51. Your understanding of the vastness of unexplored space is great enough that it surpasses the time for 100% Item. The same difference can be viewed. Grabbing all items along with squares would add roughly 6 more minutes to the existing.
Penultimately, I would argue that coming here from another site and demanding legitimacy of your category speaks ill of wherever you are coming from and demonstrates little respect for this site. It's possible to come up with a staggeringly large number of arbitrary categories (SM: no speed boots, SM: no arm pumping, SM: only fire on even frames, SM: exclusively bomb jumps, SM: eat mashed potatoes while playing) that don't add anything to the tool-assisted community. I can completely respect human players offering human restrictions to human categories, but the site's goals are not to demonstrate superplay of every possible iteration of goal choice.
Honestly, I don't make the categories...I just TAS it.
Finally, Nymx specifically, I want to call out this particular statement:
I just think that if you are not part of the Super Metroid community, you really don't care to participate in it's creation or support it, in the fact that no human will ever defeat this time.
This is a true statement that is buzzing already with our runners.
Perhaps you should have predefined TAS categories that you will accept...so that no open ended write-ins can be submitted. Since it is open, how are we supposed to know that you are going to shoot it down? Afterall, SM has been going strong for 21 years, and the exploration of this has been extreme. If you think that low% is not arbitrary, then how does fit with the difference low%? speedbooster, ice, iceboots...more to come. Each with something to offer that has specific challenges. Will you be obsoleting your low% videos once a 13% solution can be determined? If and when that happens, then your video should not meet your high standard of quality. In my case, how can you optimize the map traversing and not waste time? Even though I hate it that there is nothing posted at the end of the game, it requires an eagle eye to watch and determine. :(
As to that particular statement, there is nothing stopping deertier from creating a TAS category, where you can play by their rules.
Believe me, we have started that process. Deertier has been contacted to add a new heading.
It is apparent that TASVideos is at odds with our community. I suggest that you lock down submissions by having predefined categories to prevent "Arbitrary" entries.
Invariel...thank you for your time in this manner. I support the work done here on this site and look forward to more glorious TASes.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Spikestuff wrote:
Don't blame me on something you did. You're defending the air (nothing).
nymx wrote:
However!, you seem to be taking 95.5886% credit for the youtube video that you posted on your channel. Where are the creators mentioned for NYMX and EternisedDragon?
Oh, you're cute. Have you properly looked at what the video is currently set as?
1. This is an unlisted temp encode.
2. It means it's going to be deleted.
3. The only public way of seeing this video is through TASVideos.
Don't give me that lip.
Well, I can only say that my past submissions where honored with the information that I provided on the last publishers youtube channel. You never wrote a thing. I just think that if you are not part of the Super Metroid community, you really don't care to participate in it's creation or support it, in the fact that no human will ever defeat this time. TASVideos, when human skills are not enough...I figured TASVideos would welcome people more openingly You may not like it, but deertier members do. If CPAdolf did this, he apparently would beat my time...and you wouldn't complain about the category when it comes to him.
I challenge you to visit our excellent runners at deertier. You apparently know more about this game and should hold a record. I'm sure they would enjoy your competition...which is what we love.
In regards to other games on this sites...I applaud them and look forward to faster times for all games.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1645)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 813
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Spikestuff wrote:
Also currently we're curious on your starting input being identical to Cpadolf's TAS.
You seem to be very down on me not quoting my sources, but in fact I have done that previously and forgot this time. My appologies.
However!, you seem to be taking 95.5886% credit for the youtube video that you posted on your channel. Where are the creators mentioned for NYMX and EternisedDragon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_QABQ0IsS4
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1645)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 813
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Spikestuff...thanks for your comments. By the time the first comment was placed on this site, I realized that I forgot to give credit on the parts that I used from CPAdolf. My apologies. As for my previous attempts, please don't judge my future attempts with my past. This is one reason why I engaged the active Super Metroid community from Deertier.com.
Tangent...Thanks for your comment. Basically, the tricks that were mostly used were humanly impossible shinesparks that are used to color in map sqaures that would normally be difficult for a human to accomplished. For one, the Green Gate Glitch was used in conjunction with a charge for a shinespark to fall in the water on the way to the grapple beam. This saved 5 seconds over the effort of Sweetnumb's WR. A list was provided for many of the time saving shinesparks...which honestly perform the coloring a lot faster.
Invariel...Thanks for your comment as well. No disrespect was intended by copying optimized TASing inputs from CPAdolf. My neglect in mentioning this is noted above to SpikeStuff. howerver, my previous submissions state this as well. CPAdolf is a TASing hero of mine. I studied his stuff in order to produce what I submitted.
Samsara...thanks for your comment. I am saddened by the fact that non runners of Super Metroid can make such harsh judgment over the categories that are currently being competed in. The best of the best are on deertier.com and have been the biggest contributors of making this TAS. As you have stated, live TAS creations have been streamed before, I merely meant that none have done so for Super Metroid.
Mothrayas...thanks for your comment. If you would like to know the big difference between the routes used in my TAS and the human ran category, please refer to deertier.com and look for SweetNumb's WR under the category "100% Map Completion". The route used in my TAS was done so because the limitations of a human wouldn't allow such techniques used...such as the "Mote Spark", which prevented 2 revisits to the moat area heading towards the wrecked ship...thus saving door transistion time and area traversing time.
keylie...Thanks for your question. Basically, Super Metroid performs glitched runs that basically break the game so that the runner can perform tricks that cause the game to go into a crazy state. Since runners of this game want to know if major glitches where used, we normally have to mention that for the category being ran. Glitches of this nature are cleared defined between normal types of runs and game breaking runs. Minor glitches are used, such as "Pause Abuse" to prevent the death of Samus where 0 HP was recorded after the Crocomire fight.
Invariel...in regards to your second post: The fact that Samus runs into a room and the quickly returns is part of the 100% Map completion. Please check the map to determine if a pink square is being lit up...which is the goal of this TAS. As for the rooms that I ran in further, it depended on the goal for the next room being visited. For instance...getting more of a running start was necessary to build up running speed to jump further. If this was not necessary, then a shorter distance was required...thus maximizing the effort of my run. This TAS brings to light all of the areas that are no longer being visited in other categories...such as any%, 100% item, and even the low% categories. As for your other comments, I merely forgot to mention the other parts of the TAS that were copied. According to TASVideos, this is not illegal...but my other two submissions state the use of this. The OoB play was not part of the original intent of this category, but Eterniseddragon and WildAnaconda69 are currently working on a new category that might address what you are looking for.
scrimpeh...Thanks for you comment. Basically, the community of deertier.com came up with the rules for this category. Picking up all the items would have pushed my time beyond the human record, which would have disappointed them. The fewer the items, the more time saved...but you are right, health was a concern of mine and now that I have completed it...it does give me ideas on how to correct it. In regards to resubmitting, it's not that easy to just go and make small changes. If I were to correct a problem in the beginning of this TAS...it would be months to realign the rest of it. It's just too much time to go back, when you have found something. A overall review must be in effect, before writting it over.
supersonicjc...Thanks for your comment. I just wish that the there were more members that understood the categories that are being ran in the Super Metroid community, but I have to say that some of the things you mentioned were legit. For example, my used of 5 missiles, rather than a super, was intended because of future use. The rewrite of this TAS to pull of those necessary super missiles was difficult to manipulate RNG and thus I had to hold on to them for their soon use in areas that were absolutely critical. This TAS was a good effort over the human WR and was received with extreme excitement among them. I am only giving them what they asked for.
To all...As for any unknown reasons for Samus's movement, just check the map to see if a pink square is being produced. Afterall, this is the purpose of this TAS...to complete the entire map.
My reason for all of my submissions, are one of curiosity on a TAS time...which is not available. If none is ever done, how will we ever know? And if a category is being posted on deetier.com, shouldn't a TAS be created to understand the human limitations?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1645)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 813
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Thanks everyone for your comments. I do realize that this was not a submission, according to the rules...but since it was an overlooked Super Metroid category, I figured it would be received well. For me, I have been trying to discover a TAS version for the SS RTA. Well, I finally did it myself and found out the time savings that can occur.
I plan on doing a second version, which would be a 3% run. Thanks to Ivan, I've got some details that I can go with. Even though it might not get published here...I know that there are people out there, like me, who wants to see every category of this great game.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1645)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 813
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
ivanSRL wrote:
Interesting watch - I do have a few questions about some of the choices made after skipping the e-tank though.
-I saw afterwards that you mentioned wanting to improve this without the farming before Spore Spawn. Its a little harder for us because we can't manipulate the drops in RTA obviously, but it would be cool to see a new TAS with a little more health conservation and some drop manipulation to cut out farming all together before heading to Spore Spawn.
-We've had a few discussions about this, but there are some players that believe a 3% run might be able to beat the 4% by skipping the super missiles and having a 2-round fight with just missiles. A guy named Dessyreqt made a theory-TAS a few years back of the 3% run. I'll link the video and ask that you watch the fight, particularly the 2nd round - when SS opens his mouth on the 2nd round, there is a small window when you can fit in a few missiles without SS closing his mouth. If nothing else, it may be able to help with finding a faster kill if you can get it to work with the first round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUJOuftf9QU&feature=player_detailpage#t=303
Also I may have misread, but our timing for the end is at the end of the fanfare jingle, not just on the super missile grab.
Ivan...I saw this and it seems pretty effective. I too believe that a 3% run is faster...but I'm going to have to get better at creating this TAS before I can attempt another version. It took me about 4 weeks to create this (about 1 week was learning).
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1645)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 813
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Thanks everyone for your comments.
Please note that this is the first time I have every created a TAS. Since I'm a programmer at work and do electrical engineering as a hobbie, I thought this TAS was very close to some of my skills. Even though I know improvements can be made...I'm still trying to discover TAS techniques in order to do it.
One this is clear...my skills were definitely improved by the end of this. perhaps a revisit will produce that sub 5:30 that I was originally hoping for.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
