After thinking a bit, I've come to the conclusion that the best option is Mew. The reason for this is that Mew can learn Fly, which means that I'll only ever need to have one Pokémon in my team, and won't need to be constantly switching them in and out. Here's the two options I've come up with:
Play Charmander all the way to Nugget Bridge, and glitch Mew there (like I did in my original Mew run).
Glitch a Gyarados in Mt. Moon, and play him all the way down to Veridian, glitching a Mew while performing the first Snorlax skip.
The first option necessitates the lengthy process of catching Mew in Cerulean, plus by having to use Charmander, means that the battles in Mt. Moon and across Nugget Bridge will be much slower.
The second Option obtains Mew with zero extra effort (barring a random encounter to see a Pokémon with special 21), will have fast battles the whole way, but requires glitching Gyarados.
I think the second if these is the better option, and this is my current plan of action. If anyone else has a good idea that I may have neglected, please share.
Surf is unnecessary and, in fact, derogatory because you can simply bike over water. Surf is slower.
About the process itself: That's odd, because I always thought you had to go out twice for the bug to work. Huh.
You're right, I wasn't thinking clearly. We don't really need to go to the Safari Zone at all (other than to glitch), because we don't need Strength, or Surf. Craziness. First things first though... I need to plan how and where to get a new main battler.
Your path is a little flawed. In step 2, you have to leave and say "no" twice.
I just tested this, and it works only doing this once (perhaps you're thinking of step 4?).
I just had another thought. We need to visit the Safari Zone once anyway. If you teach Surf HM directly after getting it, you still have enough steps to make it back to the entrance. This means that the Fuschia Gym will need to be done before hand, but that's not really a big deal. Also, becuse it's full of Poison-Type Pokémon, this is also an excellent opportunity to inflict the main battler with Poison. Perhaps with enough HP, one could even bike all the way to the Secret Hut, walk a few steps afterwards, and faint conveniently shortly thereafter.
This run is going to be awesome.
I'm so terribly confused. I consider this to be a good thing! So, as I figure, there are two ideal places for this glitch to be performed. Once to enter Saffron gym, and once to bypass Victory road? This would allow skipping of Poké Tower, Silph Co. (and purchasing Fresh Water and Poké Doll in Celedon), and Veridian Gym.
Let me make sure my understanding of this glitch is correct:
1. Enter Safari Zone.
2. Go back to the entrance of Safari Zone. When asked if you want to leave, select "No".
3. Save, restart.
4. Go to the entrance of Safari Zone again. The game will think you've already exited and ask you if you want to enter. Select "No".
5. Go / FLY whereever you want. Within the next 500 steps, you may as well do something necessary for completing the game.
6. Shortly before these 500 steps are up, make sure that you only have one Pokémon in your team, and that this Pokémon is poisoned.
7. On exactly the 500th step, make sure you are jumping over a ledge. You will be teleported back to the entrance of the Safari Zone. From this point, you can walk through walls as you please, as long as you don't enter or exit a building.
8. Walk around in the Safari entrance until that Pokémon faints. You will be teleported to the Poké Center where you last saved. You can still walk through walls as you please. This can be used to bypass certain obstacles, such as guards blocking doorways, and the majority of Victory Road!
I think that's about all, right? FLYing somewhere does not seem to cancel the effect either, which is excellent. Other than the two locations mentioned above (Saffron Gym and Victory Road), the only other place I can think of where this could potentially save time is Cinnibar Gym, as you demonstrated. However, with the time required to set up the glitch, I'm not sure that it would actually be beneficial.
As for using Gengar... Chamale is right, there is a problem. Although I can enter Saffron Gym by letting another Pokémon faint, I still need to fight there, which means that the main battler indeed needs to be the one Poisoned in this particular case. For Victory Road, it does not matter. However, as of yet I have not done anything in way of a Gengar-specific run, so this does not change progress so far. However, I'll need to find a new battler (Mew looks like the best choice).
What could invalidate some of my progress is the picture that Ridgeway posted. How and under what circumstances did you get that to occur? Was it right away, and would it save the few steps walking to the patch of grass above?
EDIT:
Nevermind that last bit. I just watched the VBM that was posted while I was posting.
Going back to a run which doesn't involve as-of-yet impossible to obtain items, I have a WIP of a Pokémon Blue Gengar run. I'm currently in Veridian forest, which isn't very far, but I still need to decide whether I'm going to be picking up items along the way (to prevent the Gym Leader speeches) before I progress. FractalFusion did this in his Pokémon Yellow run, but I'm not sure if it was actually faster (due to going out of the way, and the ridiculously long jingle for picking up hidden items).
In this run I decided to rename the hero 'I', and the rival 'ASH'. This should save about 18 seconds over the course of the entire run. Thanks to a tip from Chamale, I was able to save three critical hits in the section, two from the very first rival battle, and one against the Weedle in Veridian (he noticed that with a attack DV of F, one could get one more damage against the Rival in the very first battle (this actually works with a DV of E as well)). I ended up Rolling E1EF, which is just about as good as it gets. I'm currently 140 frames ahead of my previous run, around 80 from the name change, and around 60 from better manipulation.
As I indicated above, I'll be using Gengar this run, glitched L100 in Mt. Moon (which doesn't involve going out of the way at all). He starts with Lick and Night Shade, and I plan to learn Thunderbolt and either Mega Drain or Psychic later on (both have advantages and disadvantages... I still need to figure out which is better). Strength will also most likely replace either Lick or Night Shade. I'll also be glitching a Mew as a Fly/Surf slave while I'm performing the Snorlax skip. I really have no idea how much faster this will be than the published run, but certainly serveral minutes. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
EDIT:
Something I forgot to mention. I noticed while working on my 151 run that when an opponent requires one critical and one normal hit to defeat, that it was around 15 frames faster to put the critical hit at the end. At the time, I had (wrongly) assumed that somehow there was less of a delay when using a critical as the last hit. The real difference turns out to be that when the opponents health bar changes color (from green to yellow, for example), this takes 15 frames. This is why I saved one critical hit for the end in the Rival battle, to prevent the change from yellow to red.
This also implies a possible change of strategy in other cases, particularly when needing two max damage normal hits. The first hit will cause the opponents health bar to turn yellow. An equally valid strategy would be to use a weak normal hit first, and then finish off with a weak critical. Not only is this infinitely easier to manipulate, it's also potentially faster:
0-10 frames (max normal + miss) + 15 frames (color change) + 0-10 frames (max normal) = 15-35 frames
0-2 frames (normal + miss) + 0-4 frames (critical hit) + 20 frames (critical message) = 20-26 frames
Although the first case has a lower minimum, in practice it's usually in the 30-35 frame mark (average 7.5 frames to manipulate a max damage hit is about right). The second case requires almost no manipulation whatsoever. I think this will become my new strategy.
Hey primo, that route you proposed involves biking through Saffron City, right? If so, it won't work because the guard in front of Copycat's house will disappear instead of Snorlax.
Not biking through Saffron, but rather under it through the underground path. I think this should be ok?
hanzou wrote:
Assuming we'll still have to get the Poke Flute, will glitching the Snorlax west of Celadon be expected to save any time?
At first glance it doesn't seem like it would. The only way it would is if traveling to Fuschia before doing the Poké Tower might had some unexcepted benefits. However, this is definitely a good thing to keep in the inventory, for some time in the future when Poké Tower skip might become possible.
At higher levels, max critical hits are much closer to twice max non-criticals. However, at lower levels, due to rounding effects, max criticals are typically only 1-2 damage higher than a max non-criticals.
Chamale, thanks for the observation. Squirtle starts with 20 HP; in the past it seemed that max non-critical was 4 damage, and max critical was 5. However, I noticed in my "catch 'em all" run, that I could actually get a max non-critical of 5 using Squirtle against Bulbasaur, mainly due to Bulbasaur's lower defense. I wouldn't be surprised if with a DV of F the same was true with Charmander against Squirtle, resulting in not needing any critical hits. I'll have to test this, but at very least with a max critical of 6, it would save two critical messages, which is a nice improvement, and also looks much better.
Also, I didn't mean to step on your toes. I had gotten the impression from one of your posts that you had given up on this particular run.
EDIT: It was this post.
There hasn't been, mainly because as of late, as soon as someone has started, a new glitch has been found. As soon as this new inivisible item glitch has been thoroughly researched, I intend to be starting one. My current plan is to glitch a L100 Gengar in Mt. Moon, and then a Mew in Vermillion city (surf/fly slave) while performing the Snorlax skip. A few details are still sketchy though. My preferred route through Vermillion would be something like this:
Defeat Gym
Get Bike Voucher
Defeat last Gambler on Route 11 (so that he doesn't interfere with the Snorlax skip glitch (I think this is necessary?))
Set up Snorlax skip (and return to Cerulean)
Get Bike, and bike back down to Vermillion
Defeat trainer on Route 6 with Butterfree
Encounter a random pokémon on Route 6 with special of 21 (just about anything will do, with the right DV)
Return to Route 11 to catch Mew and finish Snorlax Skip
However, in doing this, I'm not sure if I'd be passing through a zone which has an 'invisible item', which would invalidate the Snorlax Skip. Honestly, Hanzou knows a lot more about this glitch than I do... he might even be able to say offhand if that would work.
From there, I'm still hopeful that a method will be found to bypass the Poké Tower in Red/Blue, although this doesn't seem too likely.
Hanzou, I love you. In a purely platonic way, of course. I'm just going to summarize some thoughts I've had, mainly for my own benefit, and anyone else who might be exploring this glitch. The ideal situation would be to skip the Poké Tower entirely. In order for this to work, the guard in front of Saffron Gym needs to be forcefully removed, as well as the guard in front of the Office Building, and preferably the second Snorlax as well, to allow a faster route to Fuschia. Even better than removing the guard in front of the Office Building would be to remove the guy standing in front of Veridian Gym, as then the Office Building could also be skipped entirely.
Other things that have been mentioned:
- Guards on Victory Road. I don't think it will be possible to get around them using this particular glitch, mainly because they are always present at a fixed location (which would seem to indicate that there is no memory value which would determine if they are there or not).
- Boulders/Barriers on Victory Road. When you enter the cave area of Victory Road, the position of the Boulders is reset, as well as the Barriers. Even if it were possible to move/remove them externally, I don't think it would help any.
I have about 70 save states for both my Gyarados run and Mew run which I will be making available to you. The Mew run would probably be more helpful I would think, as I had an Abra very early on.
Did I mention that I love you?
Excellent. From what it seems, it doesn't matter where the glitch is performed, which opens a lot of options (Mt. Moon, Cerulean, Route 11?). I haven't tested this, but I'm going to take a wild shot in the dark and assume that if you save when the menu appears, and then save again after catching the pokémon, the glitch should probably still work, although perhaps not? Were this true, it would mean that a speedrunner using the mew glitch, or a taser, wouldn't have to go out of their way at all to perform the glitch, which is kinda nice. If not, it would need to be performed twice, but would still many minutes faster than having to do Route 9, Rock Tunnel, and the entire Poké Tower. A disadvantage from skipping the tower is that you lose the auto-heal there, but it's more than worthwhile. I can't express how excited I am about this.
Usually frame perfection is quality. In the vast majority of cases frame perfection is the only possible measurement of quality. Exceptions exist, of course, but they are rare.
I wouldn't say rare, it's just that most that are thrown are also caught and handled properly. It's only those which aren't that cause problems in the system, and thereby generate large amounts of user feedback / complaints.
So what does this mean? Well, if you simply catch an abra in cerulean city, use the mew glitch trick (abra will replace fly), and get into the "glitchy status," guess what? SNORLAX DOES NOT APPEAR.
This is an awesome discovery, but I must not be understanding the description properly, because I was unable to reproduce this. I set up the trainer glitch, and went to visit my good buddy Snorlax, but he was still there. I made a short movie to show you what I did, both in VBM format and AVI format. The movie clearly demonstrates that I am in "glitchy status", as I walk right by trainers that I haven't fought. Am I misunderstanding something, or is perhaps the description of the glitch missing a detail or so?
a good definition of pride is claiming what is due to oneself.
A better definition of pride is thinking you're better than you really are.
I don't believe so. I think that this interpretation is more or less a result of various religions, which claim that it is a "deadly sin" to feel any self-respect or personal worth for one's "earthly" accomplishments. I am both selfish and proud. I am not, however, greedy nor am I arrogant.
Repel makes all wild pokemon below your strongest guys level scarper right?
Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure that it's the first pokémon in your party (it was so in R/B, but Yellow could be different I suppose).
Rridgway wrote:
See, the game actually does record hard resets. It shows up on instant display as an exclamation point (!). If you hard reset during a save, and while watching a movie, it keeps the frame counter the same (doesn't set it to 0) but it corrupts the save file. It's an easily abused glitch in a TAS.
Whether the emulator is capable of recording a hard reset does not address the question of whether it would be accepted in a tas. The rules don't specifically mention this, but it seems very similar to a save-anchored movie.
tasvideos.org/Rules.html wrote:
The movie must begin from the game power-on state (no loading of saves).
We do not allow save-anchored movies.
Exceptions for verified saves (or for a demonstration of something fancy) can only be allowed under special permission.
In Visual Boy Advance, you must choose ‘record from start’, not ‘record from reset’ or ‘record from now’.
Would anyone like to watch a run of a fake pokemon game?
The question implies that such a run does exist, and that you have access to it (although, I really have no idea how one could make a run of a 'fake' game (unless you mean a hack?)). Perhaps you should just post it.
I don't know why anyone would have trouble declining pointing device into the plural though. ; p
Not to derail the topic any further... but Microsoft (I only know this from friends who work there) has a policy of never using plural of 'mouse' in any documentation, but rather when it's needed, 'pointing devices'. I'm not sure what their stance on 'virus' is though.
Cactuses? Octipodes? No one is writing an editoral here. Therefore, when speaking colloquially, I think the colloquial form wins. I once saw a similar discussion regarding 'mice', 'mouses', and 'pointing devices'.
NES Monopoly in 00:34 by Phil, 2006-02-26 [published]
NES Monopoly in 00:32 by Acmlm, 2006-03-02 [rejected]
NES Monopoly in 00:32 by hero of the day, 2006-03-09 [cancelled]
NES Monopoly in 00:31 by Acmlm, 2006-03-10 [rejected]
NES Monopoly in 00:30 by hero of the day, 2006-03-11 [cancelled]
NES Monopoly in 00:30 by Acmlm, 2006-03-14 [published]
NES Monopoly in 00:27 by FractalFusion 2006-08-24 [cancelled]
Even though it is about 3 seconds faster, the last one was cancelled for several reasons; it uses a questionable strategy (causing the computer to trade money away, and therefore would have been published as a different run), and could be 8 frames faster at the cost of being less entertaining (according to the author).
I noticed that this run didn't keep the previous run's star. I thought that was automatic now, so I guess it's just been removed manually. I think it's a bummer, I've always thought this was a great star candidate. Especially for me, Genisto's run was a very effective early movie for me to watch as a beginner to understand how different a TAS could be from normal play.
Anyway, thanks for the quick publication. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't surprised.
I considered posting this earlier, but felt that it was irrelevant after the status had been changed back to 'accepted'.
Where I'm coming from:
I've never played this game before, nor had I ever heard of it before discovering nesvideos. Of the starred videos, this was one of the last that I watched, mainly because the screenshot was a little lame (looked like a guy crawling up a group of barrels or something?). I was really surprised when I watched, because there was a lot of action, and grappling hooks (can you possibly go wrong with grappling hooks?). As I do with most new submissions that I enjoy (if they're short enough, and particularly in this case because there was so much debate over the version switch), I watched the previously published run directly after this submission.
Things I noticed:
- (J) had an occational swastika in the background.
- (U) had a different (noticably better) route.
- (U) had one less Truck Battle (arguably one of the most boring parts of the run).
- (J) had more platforms in one of the areas, although I couldn't say if this made the run faster, or actually hindered the player.
- In general (although also possible in (J), I would assume), the player moved more quickly through the levels.
- Both versions clearly depicted Hitler's head exploding at the end.
Things I wouldn't have noticed unless I had been told:
- (J) had faster scrolling text (somehow, sitting through 2 seconds more text that I can actually read now and then doesn't seem any slower than having to sit through text that I can't read at all, even though it is slightly faster).
- The superior route (and the skipped Truck Battle) was a direct result of the text speed difference (and therefore the version change).
Things I didn't notice even though I was told:
- (J) apparently has more enemies. I really didn't notice. I suppose this is probably because I was watching the player most of the time.
In conclusion, I found every aspect of this run, including the rom choice, superior to the previously published run, so I voted yes. I realize that my opinions are not shared by everyone. But for every person who enjoys the 'authenticity' of seeing an occational swastika in the background, there will be another who would prefer not to. The majority probably don't care. For every person who argues that faster text should be perferred over slower, but readable by most, text, there will be another who will argue exactly the opposite. Once again, the majority probably don't care. These factors aside, what remains is the perceived 'difficulty' difference of the two versions (which has been shown not to heavily favor either version), the superior route seen in (U), and the absence of one Truck battle in (U); both of the latter no one seems to care about, which frankly, I find to be very odd.
As I said, previously I had decided not to post all this, because I thought it to be irrelevant. I am posting it now, because I see no reason why a superior run (and it is superior, otherwise it would not have obsoleted the existing run, or?) should not have a star if it replaces an inferior run which had.
For the record, I'd personally prefer the (U) rom since I consider history to be too important to be abused in video games. Seeing swastikas is quite counteractive to my enjoyment of the movie.
I agree completely with Tub. This opinion is in direct opposition with those who favor the (J) version, which after reading this entire thread, seems to be the only thing hindering this movie's acceptance publication, despite various other trivial handwavings.
Phil wrote:
Hitler No Fukkatsu
Pros
Not censored and some sort of authenticity . (It does have Nazis swastikas and final boss named Hitler as the picture suggest.)
Bisqwit wrote:
In my opinion, the uncensored theme in the game is of bigger entertainment than the Engrish dialog texts.**
** But I realize this is not everyone's opinion. The question is, is it of majority or minority opinion?
The majority opinion? I think the majority opinion is not to be hung up on a little bit of background scenery. I think that the vote count clearly indicates this.
Perhaps you could explain the 'hard reset' glitch you mentioned earlier. I recall toying with the 'soft reset' (holding A, B, Start, and Select simultaneously), but found that it was not possible to corrupt the save game in any manner (the game simply waits until it is done saving before restarting). If by hard reset, you mean pausing the game and using the reset option in VBA, I'm not sure if this would actually be allowed in a submission; I think that would qualify as starting from a predefined memory state.
primorial#soup seems to be unique. The first six hits refer to me, and the rest of the 2600 or so seem to either be math articles dealing with primorials (n#, the product of all primes less than or equal to n), or misspellings in science articles talking about primordial soup.
My other nick, acbuist, shares a similar fate. Either me, my site, or misspellings of 'a cubist'.
As for my real name, I'm also fairly confident that I'm the only one in existance. Mainly because I know everyone with my last name in the United States, and Michael is typically spelled differently in polish (usually 'Michal', but 'Mihal' and 'Mihai' are common too (I actually work with a guy named Mihai)).
In 10 years, I'll probably be working as an overworked, underpaid software developer for a ridiculously large company, have my own cubicle, and be referred to by my immediate superiors solely by a personal identification number.
Chamale wrote:
