FractalFusion: I think it is worthwhile to link to the other run, which received similar comments but was not judged.
The game is funny and all that, but like everyone mentioned, there is hardly any worthwhile gameplay. It's notable enough to go on Gruefood Delight, and I think it should. Unfortunately, I have to reject the run.
adelikat This submission was unrejected for consideration of publication to the Vault but the person doing so I don't think realized it was a hack and not eligible. Setting this back to rejected.
FractalFusion: Unrejecting again since it is a homebrew game (albeit a port of a PC game) and not a hack.
adelikat: Seems notable enough for the Vault. Accepting.
Just pointing out that this game is a homebrew, not a hack.
The Vault rules do not specifically forbid homebrew or unlicensed games, only hacks. It even says that unlicensed games are allowed, so make of that what you will.
the line is thin on this one
anyway, if the definition of this game makes it acceptable for the vault i'm for it's publication and same the goes for the jurasic park 2 nes tas
but again, where is the line between hacks and unlicenced games ?
but again, where is the line between hacks and unlicenced games ?
The Green Herring wrote:
Calling something a "hack" implies that the developers took another game's programming and used it to make their game. Unlicensed games, for all that can be said about their quality, are usually built from the ground up with engines the developers programmed themselves, even if just to mimic another game.
I've heard opinions that unlicensed games should be allowed. That includes this game, pirate games, PC games, and some joke games. Some unlicensed games are works of art with well-deserved TASes (see Cave Story). Even if not, most of them (excluding joke games, of course) are honest games for which not a trivial amount of TAS work is required.
However, I would like to draw the line at notability. I don't think we want a person to create a Game Maker game in 2 hours and TAS it (probably with little effort), then claim that it should be published in vault.
Please keep in mind that this game is well-notable, so I don't really see a problem with that.
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For a console game to count as homebrew it should work on the target console in my opinion. If it does I vote that we accept this for the Vault, otherwise it should probably be rejected since it uses emulator inaccuracies to function.
I tried to find some info about someone playing (or attempting to play) this on a real DS but couldn't.
I still have to vote no on this for being a poorly made *homebrew and more importantly far too trivial.
*I know we can no longer use game choice as a reason for rejection, but I still believe the rule should apply to hacks and homebrews.
Well, the current rule is that we publish every indie and homebrew game, no matter how crappy, so long as somebody puts a few minutes of effort into TAS'ing them. So under that rule, this should go in too.
Well, the current rule is that we publish every indie and homebrew game, no matter how crappy, so long as somebody puts a few minutes of effort into TAS'ing them. So under that rule, this should go in too.
That's why the rules should be changed. Or else it could be abused.
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jlun2 wrote:
Radiant wrote:
Well, the current rule is that we publish every indie and homebrew game, no matter how crappy, so long as somebody puts a few minutes of effort into TAS'ing them. So under that rule, this should go in too.
That's why the rules should be changed. Or else it could be abused.
This particular rule is tentative at best. I'm hoping we can find a rule/wording that works. The problem with saying no unlicensed and no homebrew is that those lines can be blurry and maybe arbituary and there are plenty of unlicensed games that seem rather "official". However, allowing them no matter how crappy is problematic.
The logic for disallowing hacks is that it demands them to have entertainment value thus weeding out all the bad hacks out there (there's much more bad than good). Can we just lump homebrew and unlicensed into that logic as well?
The logic for disallowing hacks is that it demands them to have entertainment value thus weeding out all the bad hacks out there (there's much more bad than good). Can we just lump homebrew and unlicensed into that logic as well?
Yes.
Copyrights aside, romhacking scene is as creative as homebrew scene, so I don't see why a homebrew game run can be published without being entertaining, while a romhack run cannot. Rules should be the same for those. As in, both have to be entertaining, period.
I don't see a good reason for making a distinction between romhacks and homebrew games. I think anything that's either unpublished or self-published should have some standards for game quality and entertainment. And I think in terms of both quality and entertainment, You Have To Buy The Rope scores higher than Syobon, although I'd consider both to be still below the bar.
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I want to see games like this published. I believe the bar for the entire broad category of unlicensed games (including homebrew, hacks, etc.) should be held up to the question "Is this notable?" and if it is it should be allowed to go through the judging process like any other game and be eligible for the vault.
In this case, a viewer can watch the encode and be entertained without having to play the game at all. I think that's very worth publishing because TASVideos can become the go-to place to see what the hype of this meme is without having to go through the trouble of playing it. Yes, I know people who are that lazy. Sometimes I'm one of them. :)
That's my two cents...
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I'm suggesting that if the game itself has to go under scrutiny to be eligible for the vault, that it is only natural to simply require the TAS to have some entertainment value to the audience. The easiest way to require that is to remove vault eligibility.
I'm suggesting that if the game itself has to go under scrutiny to be eligible for the vault, that it is only natural to simply require the TAS to have some entertainment value to the audience. The easiest way to require that is to remove vault eligibility.
I don't think I agree with that - mainly because this rule would, in practice, mean that most romhacks of Mario and Metroid would get in, and most Windows games from the indie scene would be rejected.
It strikes me as straightforward to base it on game quality. There's many sites that offer indie games (and romhacks) for download and allow users to rate them. I think we would get a good selection if we disallow all non-published / self-published games they have average-or-below ratings on such sites, or if they simply lack ratings. It is up to the submitter of a run to prove that the game qualifies (which isn't hard).
(this provides an objective answer to Dwango's notability criterion, while also keeping out games that are notable for being bad).
I don't think I agree with that - mainly because this rule would, in practice, mean that most romhacks of Mario and Metroid would get in, and most Windows games from the indie scene would be rejected.
It strikes me as straightforward to base it on game quality.
There is a well established rule that a rom hack has to offer something that the orginal game didn't. It also needs to look appealing and not be impossible to beat without TAS reflexes.
There is a well established rule that a rom hack has to offer something that the orginal game didn't. It also needs to look appealing and not be impossible to beat without TAS reflexes.
Yes. We are, however, talking about homebrew (indie) games. These don't have an original game.
That's an important point! For Vault rules, there must be some kind of distinction between homebrew and hack based on this logic.
What kind of distinction? Both should not go into Vault. Either a movie (made for romhack or homebrew game) is entertaining, then it goes to Moons, or it is not, and then it is rejected.
There may be an exception for notable romhacks and indie games, e.g. if Cave Story or Rockman 4 MI speedrun somehow would not be entertaining, then it could be published in the Vault. But speedruns for notable games/mods are usually entertaining/popular enough to be in Moons, so I'm sure these exceptions won't be needed.
Opening the Vault for all commercial games was already pretty risky. You don't know what the site will look like in a year because of this decision. So it's wise to wait some considerable time before attempting to open it even wider.
But speedruns for notable games/mods are usually entertaining/popular enough to be in Moons,
I don't think that's true at all. People already tend to downvote notable published PC games. And there are plenty of high-quality indie games for the PC that would be a worthwhile addition to the site; the whole PC scene is way underrepresented here. Now that it is finally possible to TAS DOS and Windows games, I think it's a bad idea to discourage them.
For instance, Eversion is one of the most famous indie games of 2008 and got rejected because people here hadn't heard of it. That's a clear selection bias. I would much rather see a notable indie game in the vault than a crappy published game (and let's face it, there are some really crappy published games out there).
Come to think of it, if a game has a page on Wikipedia, that is a strong indication that it's notable enough for TASing; Wikipedia is very strict about its inclusion standards. Of course that shouldn't be the only criterion but it's a helpful indication.
OK, I'm not going to argue, because I don't care too much about the fate of unentertaining speedruns. I just want the Vault to have some non-arbitrary subject, possibly one that doesn't blow out of proportions.
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This game looks so weird…
Yes vote for a funny TAS
DarkKobold wrote:
I'm happy your an encoder, but how else are you going to spend the rest of this day?
Maybe encode a video?
Maybe press refresh and read the topic again?
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