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About

  • Aims for fastest time of two players
  • Genre:Shooting
  • Emulator FBA-rr 003c
  • Manipulate luck
  • 2 players
  • Take damage to save time
Using two players will cost a lot of lags.And I will explain it in my summary.

About the continue

There are the main reasons why I struggle to use continue.
  • 1.Making the jumping after the train smoothly.
  • 2.Making sure that boss battle have enough items because of the power of R is very low.
  • 3.Machine Gun can hit the 5-3 door smoothly and need not wait the door destroyed.
  • 4.continue is not only used in this game,some other games in this web have used continue and borrowing lives.
  • 5.If squarrel king can use continue,I have no doubt to use continue for adding more lives.
  • 6.Continue is availiable in Arcade but just need coins,if coin is the problem,well the PS version can?
  • 7.Continue can make 4 members jump out to show in this run.
  • 8.It can be regarded as a script.
  • 9.It can avoid many lags.
  • 10.It can make the dropping place right to get the Frameshot.
  • 11.Using pistals to hit the train looks stupid.
  • 12.I can only die 2 lives.But dying three lives have more advantage for entertaining this run.And this add the entertainment but other games do not have the chance to use this.If I have 4 lives is it a problem?
  • 13.There are 20 more different experiments that I take no death there,it will make the boss battle looks foolish.Not only because of the longer time.
  • 14.There is a fat getting thin time for player-2.
  • 15.It can also not use continue but waiting for the conuting down for adding new player.
  • 16.The item manipulation for boss battle's experiments:
(1)Using 1 frameshot and the 10 bombs in robot. (2)Using 1 frameshot and 5 bombs in the robot and give up it. (3)Using 1 frameshot and 6 bombs in the robot and give up it. (4)Using 1 frameshot and give up the robot at first and pick two R.That is still not enough to beat the boss.And it is in Level 4. (5)Using 2 frameshots and give up the robot at first.If not use bombs,it is not enough to beat it. (6)Using 2 frameshots and use the robot' 2 bombs. (7)3 bombs. (8)All 4-10 bombs. (9)At first give up the robot and use normal bombs 1 or more. (10)At first give up the robot and only hit it by frameshot,that is also not enough.
So large entertainment killed without what you see the continue used.

The Game

Metal Slug X - Super Vehicle-001 (c) 1999 SNK.
Originally released to improve upon some of the problems the previous Metal Slug game ("Metal Slug 2 - Super Vehicle-001/II") had, most notably its notorious slowdown, this update also implemented several changes to beef up the gameplay, such as new enemies, a different end boss layout and a number of new weapons and secrets. The result is a better game and one of the finest chapters in this series.
- TECHNICAL -
SNK Neo-Geo MVS hardware
Game ID : 0250
Main CPU : 68000 (@ 12 Mhz)
Sound CPU : Z80 (@ 4 Mhz)
Sound Chips : YM2610 (@ 8 Mhz)
Screen orientation : Horizontal
Video resolution : 320 x 224 pixels
Screen refresh : 59.19 Hz
Palette colors : 4096
Players : 2
Control : 8-way joystick
Buttons : 3
=> Character > [A] Shoot, [B] Jump, [C] Grenade
=> Metal Slug> [A] Gun Attack, [B] Jump Board Vehicle, [C] Artillery Attack

Summary

Mission 1

21 frames faster than the precious movie,because shooting together.take a lot of lags.Hitting the boss by tank and camel.Because camel jump fast and has the infinity mechine gun.Tank have great bombs to hit boss for a lot of damage. Camel can using in the Mission 2 at first.Saving time that ignore the L gun.

Mission 2

100 frames more than the precious movie because of there cannot manipulate Shotgun in the 2-2 and the time waiting for the 2p jump for rolling the map takes a lot of time.I can use single player in 1&2 for faster,but I don't do so.The entertainment of two players' run is the key.

Mission 3

800 more faster using dual attack,and manipulate luck in the first boss battle for the Shotgun.

Mission 4

6 frames faster.Lags kill the improvement I think.

Mission 5

400 more frames saved.Dying in the train time.and get two mechine gun and 20 bombs.Using two flame shot to hitting the boss is the key.I have almost 10 experiments in this stage just like do not get the F,Using R,Using the robot hitting,and even more.Finally,I get the best answer.

Mission 6

Manipulate Luck in the last boss's battle,H and L can make the continuous attack.
End this movie.
See you next time and I am in the other plans for MD and Arcade games.

Nach: Judging.

feos: Synched encode is highly needed. Linked what we have for now.

GabCM: Synched encode is here.

DarkKobold: This run has now been sitting on the bench for nearly a month, and Nach has been M.I.A. on this submission, so the senior judge is taking over.
First off, this run is hell to sync, and I have been unable to verify it, despite numerous attempts. This alone would not warrant rejection, as we do have a publishable encode.
Second of all, this run doesn't play at the highest difficulty. Now, this also shouldn't be a sole reason for rejection, especially since it only adds health to bosses. (I actually think the difficulty this is played at should be up for debate.) However, the decision on the previous movie stated that further movies should use the highest difficulty, and I think that should hold weight.
However, the biggest issue is the use of continues, and it is two-fold for this submission.
First off, death would have been sufficient to restore grenades. Continues, on the other hand, gives you a free "Heavy Machine Gun," which is an advantage over the the player's starting stats. So, essentially, you use money to buy a stronger position, which I would equate to the use of a cheat code. In other words, if a code were used to get the heavy machine gun to fall from the sky, it would be viewed in the same light.
Finally, the biggest reason for this rejection is that the use of the continue was poorly done. You died multiple times in the same spot, so that the continue could be used. Now, if continues were going to be used, it would have been trivial to enter the menu, and adjust the number of lives down to one - Or to die in other places, so that grenades could have been reset and used elsewhere. Essentially, it looked like poor planning, and sloppy.
I would reconsider a new submission if the author fixed the use of the continue, and redid the run from there (not fixing the difficulty). As I'm able to get this run to sync up to the end boss, perhaps the first issue would also be taken care of.

DarkKobold: In light of the new rule, this submission was well received, and is being given a second chance. Whether or not it is a rule is no longer a question, but should an exception be made for this movie.

DarkKobold: This movie had a less than positive response. Judging by #3040: X2poet's Arcade Metal Slug: Super Vehicle - 001 in 12:10.23, people prefer a no death run of Metal Slug games.


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Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I liked the run all in all, and I cast a YES-vote. Using continues is an innovative way to save time in this game.
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
What's the current status of judging this run? It's been "judging underway" for a very long time.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
sgrunt, I think it's quite hard to judje something, watching only an encode. Or a desynced movie...
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
GabCM
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Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 901
Location: QC, Canada
Would this mean x2poet submitted an unjudgable movie? I hope not, since it's a great movie and it should be accepted, IMO.
Former player
Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
I'm back and I agree with Mister Epic, this should be accepted, I'm amazed with this work. yes vote.
TASVideosGrue
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Joined: 10/1/2008
Posts: 2785
Location: The dark corners of the TASVideos server
om, nom, nom
Post subject: Re: #2985: x2poet's Arcade Metal Slug X in 18:24.47
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W
TASVideoAgent wrote:
DarkKobold: Continues, on the other hand, gives you a free "Heavy Machine Gun," which is an advantage over the the player's starting stats. So, essentially, you use money to buy a stronger position, which I would equate to the use of a cheat code. In other words, if a code were used to get the heavy machine gun to fall from the sky, it would be viewed in the same light. (...) it would have been trivial to enter the menu, and adjust the number of lives down to one
Since using the continue looks like a cheat code, I wonder how a bad idea it would be to set the initial amount of lives to 3 or 4 instead of 1, so the deaths wouldn't bring up neither a game over nor the Heavy Machine Gun.
Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 486
Location: Hubei,China
I have said that setting lives down to one is equal to cheat just like turbo mode for the other games. Using continue is availiable in a game,why it cannot use? If continue means game over,all the games need not set the continue system. Arcade's continue need the coins.If it can throw the coin in FC,is that a bad choice? And if set 1 coin for 1 life,it will not be faster because of the dying time.So it is no use.
Do the work.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
X2poet wrote:
Using continue is availiable in a game,why it cannot use?
You say this, and you say you "didn't want to spend 20 seconds hitting the trains with the pistol". By this logic, a run of, say, Mega Man 2 that uses a password to skip all the robot master stages should be perfectly acceptable and obsolete the previous run because the password is available in the game, and the runner says he didn't want to spend all the time it takes going through the robot master stages. It helps beat the game faster, so it should be accepted, right? (I'm well aware of how that's not the exact situation, I'm just exaggerating a bit to show why the argument doesn't hold up.)
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
X2poet wrote:
I have said that setting lives down to one is equal to cheat just like turbo mode for the other games. Using continue is availiable in a game,why it cannot use?
Setting lives down is not available in the game because it requires manipulating hardware (in this case, dip switches), correct? Well, in that case you should consider that coin slot is also a hardware device that is being manipulated externally by using, well, coins — which aren't available in the game. There's really no difference. Making things faster is not an absolute rule as you may have noticed, as otherwise we would have been using all kinds of cheats and passwords that could help this goal. The goal is making things faster by being super. My personal opinion is that credit-feeding for free weapons is not super, but cheap. Don't take it personally; this was a grey area that had no prior discussion that could make things more clear before you submitted the run.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Skilled player (1741)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4981
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
I don't understand why using continues is wrong. I mean, I thought some runs use death to save time? In this case, it was to skip the train? Edit: Oh, you use coins. I never knew they weren't allowed.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
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They never were prohibited either! It's the reason we have this debate.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
ALAKTORN
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Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
you can use coins in an arcade, the run does nothing illicit? I don't see the problem with using continues, human players can too, you need coins to start the game anyway so saying it's bad because you use coins doesn't make sense about the "super" and "cheap", I thought it was very smart when I saw him abuse death in the TAS, it looked "super" to me
Joined: 8/7/2006
Posts: 344
That sort of thing is incredibly subjective though. I thought it was pretty cool the first time I saw it. I stopped thinking it was cool when he gameovered because of it and started thinking it was cheap.
Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 486
Location: Hubei,China
KennyMan666 wrote:
X2poet wrote:
Using continue is availiable in a game,why it cannot use?
You say this, and you say you "didn't want to spend 20 seconds hitting the trains with the pistol". By this logic, a run of, say, Mega Man 2 that uses a password to skip all the robot master stages should be perfectly acceptable and obsolete the previous run because the password is available in the game, and the runner says he didn't want to spend all the time it takes going through the robot master stages. It helps beat the game faster, so it should be accepted, right? (I'm well aware of how that's not the exact situation, I'm just exaggerating a bit to show why the argument doesn't hold up.)
Well,is continue equal to cheat,or equal to using password to jump the scene? Continue has been used and it is acceptble before only for aiming faster,but using password is just skiping the level,can anyone accept that? And I want to ask about whether it is acceptable that using the password for redoing my American gradiators on the NES? Most of people in this run can accept the continue,so it is acceptble. Nobody will accept using password means it is not acceptble. Right? And now my mslug 1 in MISSION 5,the boss I must die for adding 20 bombs. Shall I take death? Every coin has two sides.Somebody like faster,and somebody like no death,right? Now what shall I do? http://www.mediafire.com/?6pkyz5b5em0f98u
Do the work.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Dying and using a continue is different. Dying is alright.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Continue is more equal to cheating, actually. In this case, the cheats in question would be infinite lives and spawning powerups from nowhere. Also, what moozooh said.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 486
Location: Hubei,China
KennyMan666 wrote:
Continue is more equal to cheating, actually. In this case, the cheats in question would be infinite lives and spawning powerups from nowhere. Also, what moozooh said.
So why Guerilla War is acceptable? Also use continue to add infinity lives. There are the main reasons why I struggle to use continue. 1.Making the jumping after the train smoothly. 2.Making sure that boss battle have enough items because of the power of R is very low. 3.Machine Gun can hit the 5-3 door smoothly and need not wait the door destroyed. 4.continue is not only used in this game,some other games in this web have used continue and borrowing lives. 5.If squarrel king can use continue,I have no doubt to use continue for adding more lives. 6.Continue is availiable in Arcade but just need coins,if coin is the problem,well the PS version can? 7.Continue can make 4 members jump out to show in this run. 8.It can be regarded as a script. 9.It can avoid many lags. 10.It can make the dropping place right to get the Frameshot. 11.Using pistals to hit the train looks stupid. 12.I can only die 2 lives.But dying three lives have more advantage for entertaining this run.And this add the entertainment but other games do not have the chance to use this.If I have 4 lives is it a problem? 13.There are 20 more different experiments that I take no death there,it will make the boss battle looks foolish.Not only because of the longer time. ......Is it enough?May I show the copy files that I take no death there? I really don't want do that,because I don't know which is the one I want to show.
Do the work.
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
KennyMan666 wrote:
Continue is more equal to cheating, actually. In this case, the cheats in question would be infinite lives and spawning powerups from nowhere. Also, what moozooh said.
ehm, excuse me? you can do it in a real arcade, how is it cheating in any way? it's just a trick to go faster
Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 486
Location: Hubei,China
So some games in Gen or SFC,it has chances to continue and it can be used for making a TAS run. Monster in my pocket on the NES,The other player come up in the games for going on running.And one player die the other goes adding 1 life.On and on and on.Does it means life's ending represent the player cannot control? These runs are my special insperation and smart style I insist on. The appearance in this run has no difference.Only appears two mechine gun.I don't really want that H guns,but it must appear,so may I ignore it? Only arcade have no chance,it is only an unfair thing. Edit:And most of arcade games have no bonus life.If it can,there may be no need we struggle with each other. Edit 2:
KennyMan666 wrote:
Continue is more equal to cheating, actually. In this case, the cheats in question would be infinite lives and spawning powerups from nowhere. Also, what moozooh said.
Only because not much games before need to use continue,if one game which is convenient to use continue someone take it earlier,it will not be a problem now. Edit 3: and after I finish mslug 1,I will pick up to redo it for highest difficulty and insist on using continue.I will try to avoid the desync problem.
Do the work.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
X2poet wrote:
So why Guerilla War is acceptable? Also use continue to add infinity lives.
Did you see me or KennyMan voting yes on it? I suppose not. Not all of us have time and motivation to watch every submission. If I had watched it prior to it being published, I would have found it unacceptable there as well. But it has been accepted for over two years, and it's impossible to change it. However, it doesn't mean something in present is justified only because it didn't attract attention the first time(s) in the past.
X2poet wrote:
There are 20 more different experiments that I take no death there,it will make the boss battle looks foolish.Not only because of the longer time.
We never had a chance to see if it was really foolish, less entertaining, or anything else. Maybe you could show us if this is really the case?
ALAKTORN wrote:
ehm, excuse me? you can do it in a real arcade, how is it cheating in any way? it's just a trick to go faster
I am give up.™ The argument against using continues is already reiterated on pretty much every page of this thread as well as the other thread already. I'll recap it for you. In arcades, using continues is quite literally buying your way out of a game over. This is done so that less capable players, or those still learning the game, could reach farther, see more of the game, and eventually improve, all the while giving profit to the arcade operators. But pretty much all arcade games punish the player for this by marking or invalidating their score and, in some cases, depriving them from seeing the true final boss of the game, making it incomparable with those done on one credit because credit-feeding gives unfair advantage in form of endless lives and free additional weaponry. In my opinion, making game easier by tapping into an infinite resource left open by developers for a very particular reason of aiding the incapable goes against the very notion of superplay, whether it's done for speed, for score, or for being awesome. Just doing something faster is not a goal in itself because there are numerous ways to do that that aren't used because they are accepted to be foul play. In fact, making stuff harder for the player is the accepted norm. There has never been any decision on this in regards to using continues in arcade, arcade ports, and arcade-like games, hence why it needs to have this discussion and this discussion needs to come to some kind of consensus reflected in the rules.
X2poet wrote:
If I have 4 lives is it a problem?
Well, is it a problem if you have 40? It defeats the point of having lives in the first place. The point which I thought was to use them wisely where it gives the maximum benefit, not to use them everywhere possible just because you can always get more on a whim by abusing the most banal and frowned upon way to gain them.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 486
Location: Hubei,China
Some arcade amusement place has 5 lives at first for getting more people play. Just because this game's life is not enough to do a good run.Continue is more important in Level 8. Is it really killing the entertainment only show the word "CONTINUE"? What is the difference between it and die for watching. I really must say thanks that you have the patience to talk with me.
Do the work.
Publisher
Joined: 4/23/2009
Posts: 1283
moozooh: A question for you. Let's say in this game, using a continue in level 1 can warp you to the end level. Obviously this would be a "glitched" category, but would you then say the use of a continue is acceptable?
Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 486
Location: Hubei,China
But there have not this glitch. That using method is different way. It cannot be regarded as this one.
Do the work.
Publisher
Joined: 4/23/2009
Posts: 1283
X2poet wrote:
But there have not this glitch. That using method is different way. It cannot be regarded as this one.
Oh, I know, I was just posting a semi off-topic theoretical question.
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