Post subject: Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1889)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
I started planning a TAS on this game. I choosed it from the Wiki: SDATASes list I maintain. Here's the SDA run and some level screens and faqs for those who aren't familiar with this game. List of tricks: Input processing abuse - every button must held for 2 (non-lag) frames to be accepted. Example of combining different input sequences: I can start the game faster (1 frame) by pressing "Start, Start + Select, lag frame, Select" instead of "Start, Start, lag frame, Select, Select". Weird items - pressing U+D+A or L+R+A changes items' behaviour but knife's Weird whip - the simple whip acts like a teleporting boomerang Weird bomb - throws the bomb downward far away Weird gun - glitches Indiana's sprite... useful? Weird whip swing - shooting a weird whip on a swing target changes Indiana's "on tile" position (which tile he stands on) while the sprites remain interactive. The new position depends on the distance between Indiana and the swing target in that very moment the whip hits it. Bunnyhop - the fastest technique is jumping in successful rows. Best when jumping in solely left or right direction (Indiana jumps downward default, so you just press left or right and B). Faster pause - you can pause the game with A on the 2nd controller and resume with B. I will use it if needed for extensive luck manipulation. Luck manipulation - you can manipulate the lava path at W9, the hidden exit on W10 and enemies movement/spawn by waiting for a very short time or moving in to different positions. I'm currently figuring out the most optimal route for this game. For now, here's the minimally detailed route I came up (will do a WIP as soon as I can): W1 - Hidden door S2 - W9 (possible weird whip swinging) W9 - manipulate (possible weird whip swinging) W10 - manipulate "exit right in to your face" W11 - weird whip swinging 2-3 times (depending if all of them saves time. have to optimize them cruelly) W12 - bunnyhopping then simply climbing
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NitroGenesis
He/Him
Editor, Experienced player (551)
Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873
I'm interested, good luck.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3598)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
I looked into tasing this game awhile back. It was level 9 that is the killer. That part will look like crap unless you find a way to make amazing luck happen, which I could not. I suggest you start your efforts there. Get a fast way across the lava and you will have yourself an impressive run.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1889)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
I already found out some techniques regarding the W9 lava monsters. There's 4 of them. They can be manipulated with facing direction, A, B, position, B on 2nd controller and time (and also faster pause). It's possible to manipulate to respawn as fast as possible and also making them respawn near to the others. I'm gonna try to manipulate them in a row, knifing the last's head, stand on it, manipulate the next four to go to middle island part and compare it against doing a weird whip swing. And then manipulate the same way to the mountain. Also I think it's possible to weird whip swing to the mountain but I had no luck at that (translating -> didn't happened). I will revisit the whip hitbox addresses. Here are some memory values if anyone is interested in: 0076 last fall distance (>=8 -> stun and reinits to 0) 0079 facing direction 0098 Tile column (X pos Indiana stands on) 00A6 X subpos 009F Tile row (Y pos Indiana stands on) 00AD Y subpos 001E Camera X 001F Camera Y 0020 Camera X offset 0021 Camera Y offset 012F number of remaining map pieces lava monsters (base offsets, add N for Nth lava monster value where 0 <= N <= 3) 037B lava monster lives/dead (1/0) 037F sprite frame (increases as sprite timer hits the next 6) 0383 sprite timer (decreases every frame from 6 until 1) 0387 Y pos 038B X pos 038F 255~243... the bigger the value the closer they are If you have anything that would help me I would appreciate it :)
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Site Admin, Skilled player (1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11269
Location: RU
Sounds fantastic! I foresee a good glitchy run for a crappy game (just like for Excitebike).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1889)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
After figuring out some weird whip swinging madnesses, I was able to "teleport" to the 2nd ladder row at W9 next to the spike (notice the screenshot taken after committing suicide to prove it worked). [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/indianajonesandthetempl.png/][/URL] Here's a very short movie I made in real time to show it (I was blindly travelling up). Stop the movie @ 500 and hold down to suicide fast. I can simply walk without taking aware of trap sprites (but I have to manipulate/avoid those interactive sprites (bat/guys)), but can't pick up the Sankara stones (which is needed to finish the wave). All in all, weird whip swinging is faster than doing the "world greatest luck manipulation" since this way you don't need bombs or knifes or anything (which was required at least 4 bomb or 4 gun or 4 knife to manipulate lava monsters at both parts). So now my W9 route looks like getting as fast as possible to the swing target and performing a weird whip swing near to the sankara stones (picture below), commit suicide, collect sankara and rush to the exit. [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/indianajonesandthetempl.png/][/URL] I will compare S2, W12 and W12B runtimes using weird whip swingings and not using them, but first I have to carefully plan the item management/collecting (if needed any now that W9 is disposed) and other minimal mysteries regarding weird whip swinging.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Site Admin, Skilled player (1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11269
Location: RU
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1889)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Nice fast encode feos :) Since normal weird whip swinging is a bit slow (~230 frames travelling), here's 2 trick: #1 It's possible to cancel the weird whip swing by colliding with an enemy so it won't take ~230 frames (but you will be stunned). #2 This helps you to fall near to the swing target (while Indiana's "on tile" isn't changed) and do another weird whip swinging/swing cancelling which teleports you even higher (for example @ W11: from X 13 Y 73 to X 15 Y 254 --> 74 tile skipped!) Good to know that simple "exit doors" are accessable during this state, so this works both at W11 and W12. I have to commit suicide at W9 since I'm unable to collect Sankara stones which reveals a "hidden door". edit: So now my new route looks like this: W1 - collect knife, bomb, gun, hidden exit. S2 - jumping and tricky swings from the conveyor. W9 - weird whip swing (cancelling) at swing target to teleport near to the sankara stones, commit suicide, collect sankara stones, go to exit. W10 - manipulate exit to the right, throw bomb, go in. W11 - multiple weird whip swing cancelling (3 or 4) and exit. W12 - rush forward, some hopping action, (maybe using an undiscovered glitch) W12B - 1 or 2 weird whip swing cancelling at 1st swing target. Unfortunately this way it's impossible to do "best ending" (whipping Willie). Here's a WIP for W1, S2 and a bit of W9. I used fceux's taseditor. I tried to optimize it as possible (and I already have some ideas for improvement mostly for S2 and W9 improved it with 10, 50, 71frames. I will post new WIP if it's significantly faster).
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1889)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
(edit: a bit text reformatting) Improved WIP (last 3 waves (W11, W12, W12B) to be done next time) Some notes: W1 - The items cannot be picked up earlier than I picked them up. Timer for picking them up: pick (0 frame) - score (65 frame) - item shows up but can't pick up (15 frame). Also I minimalized the "bomb" lag. Possible improvement should be somehow applying fast hop to the swing before bombing the hidden door which is I think is impossible for this specific scenario. S2 - Maybe the "pre-conveyor" part could be done faster but I have to deaccelerate since I can't travel the whole screen even with superfast hopping since the lava kills me. Also notice that I can manipulate the enemy away but it's looks fun (and it doesn't matter that he is there, this is the fastest way to swing and do a fast hopping to the door, otherwise I would die from the trap) W9 - The "pre-WWS" could be faster by some frames (subpos optimizing), also I had no luck at performing WWSC on this level (I think that during the WWS state a stun is considered lethal if Indiana is on 1 hit kill tile (lava)). Also it's impossible to teleport to a higher place cause of the position of the swing target, the position of whip "parts" and the map of the mountain. Also notice how I avoid those traps by optimising subposes. The blind part is also improvable but it's actually shows a decent "fast suicide hopping". W10 - I will try some other exits since the fastest way to move is hopping downward (either to the left or right) and I also have the special "throw bomb to down much farer than I should" trick. edit: this is the fastest exit. I will try to optimize the hopping and entering the door faster if I can. W11 - Just starting the WWSC trick without manipulating, I'm just uploaded this for interest. I will try also some other glitches like spawning "unintended" tiles (@ W11), glitching up some "end of level" tiles (it's possible to go through the bridge @ W12, and it has absolutely no use for tasing). Also I will try to optimize those exits by going down then up (to not collide with the wall since this way I won't get higher subpos Y) but I had no luck with that (it was actually faster to stay at the wall and hold up than doing this, maybe I missed something). edit: new improvements: W1 -19, S2 -19 and W9 -17 frames. WIP. edit 2: luck manipulation (and tasing) isn't easy on this game. Pressing/holding various buttons at various frames for various frames changes enemy position on current or even at later levels. That means everytime I improve earlier levels, I have to luck manipulate again the later levels. So now after optimizing the earlier levels, I'm manipulating all the 7 (W1 S2 W9 W10 W11 W12 W12B) levels to get the best (and most entertaining) positions for enemies and get the fastest hidden exit at the very first frame (I can cycle the "hidden exit" with the 2nd controller easily so this won't be a huge problem). Next WIP (or even the final tas) will be uploaded a bit later. Stay tuned. edit 3: Post #274552
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...