In which N64 game do you think the optimality gap of the currently published TAS is the tightest? (Relative to the optimal time value not in absolute time)
Mario 64 comes to mind, but what are some other candidates?
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Super Mario 64, no contest.
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Unless someone figures out how to open the moat door underwater.
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Based on the amount of rerecords in Mario 64 (the one before the 3 frame improvement.... I don't really know how the improvement could take so little rerecords), and considering how short it is, that would be the most perfect. Next would probably be Goldeneye. The OoT TASes are also worth mentioning.
Good indicators for strong submissions:
- High rerecord count per time unit (can obviously be distorted by a weak TASer or bogus rerecords)
- Subsequent improvements show an approximately exponentially diminishing trend (as is the case with the popular Mario titles). This is analogous to the obj. function graph over runtime in most mathematical program solvers.
- Community popularity (high profile titles attract more ideas and attempts by more people)
- Engine exploits are exhausted
- Low game complexity, low inputs and low run time. 3D titles have more possible input combinations, some games are too simple (like rail shooters or minigame-type games), and in a >1h run there probability of undiscovered glitches, imperfections etc. are really high.
I think the second point is the most valid and is heavily correlated with the third point.
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I would take that back, Mischief Makers is anything BUT low complexity. It's also not the most optimal; I found a new technique involving the springs that can save time in some of the stages. It's also possible new techniques and time savers could be found as well. I didn't restart the TAS 9 times because it was a "low complexity game".
Honestly, in terms of "what N64 TAS is most optimal?" you're forgetting Wetrix. I'd probably list that one as the most optimal, since Deign made a massive chart that predicted the luck of all possible combinations, and which one would give the highest score.
I love OoT but to argue it's more optimized than SM64 is just fanboyishly silly. I don't think anyone who's TAS'd the game would disagree with me there.
If nothing else, you can always assume the game that's shorter can be more easily optimized, assuming it's equally popular. I just have to think you were making a joke without a punchline here.
Edit: to clarify, I'd bet my wallet that the next SM64 any% submission will be a single-digit frame improvement, while the next OoT run will probably be at LEAST two digits (likely three).
Edit: to clarify, I'd bet my wallet that the next SM64 any% submission will be a single-digit frame improvement, while the next OoT run will probably be at LEAST two digits (likely three).
Unless they manage to open the moat door, which would save at least a minute.
edit of course I refer to the 0-stars run, I didn't see Sonikkustar's post when I posted.
Trying to open the moat door, assuming it's the one underwader that leads directly to second bowser, is one thing I would have never thought of even if my entire life was dedicated to this game.
This is how amazed I am toward this idea, lol.
Either way, on topic, either very popular movies are well optimised, such as mario bros 1, of course.
But let's not forget that quote that simply resumes what TASvideos.org is all about: Here, we make perfect movies, and then proceed to beat them.
This is a very true way of resuming this site. Everytime I watch a movie, a very good one, I always end up thinking to myself "Well this probably is the best that can be done on this game period" and I always end up being wrong.
Therefore, I would suggest that the most optimised run on the site is Genesis King's Bounty. The whole run is 9 seconds, with 0.3 seconds of input. It's so few that every of the frames are described in the description. Therefore, I am confident it could be the most optimised TAS. Yet, don't get me wrong, it's probably still improvable.
EDIT: Plus, according to the description, Genesis King's Bounty has over 2 millions re-records for a 0.3 second TAS
Don't mix-up the terms "optimal" and "optimized".
Of course the MM TAS isn't "optimal" since new routes have been found and stuff, but it is certainly very "optimized" as everything is done on the first possible frame and the angles are straight and neat and the luck manipulation is well-done.
With that being said, the "120 stars" TAS is certainly not close to perfection as new tricks were quickly found just after we finished it.
The upcoming "0 stars" submission though will certainly be the most optimized N64 movie to date.
Don't mix-up the terms "optimal" and "optimized".
With that being said, the "120 stars" TAS is certainly not close to perfection as new tricks were quickly found just after we finished it.
The upcoming "0 stars" submission though will certainly be the most optimized N64 movie to date.
What new tricks were found? And where are you with 0 star?
Don't mix-up the terms "optimal" and "optimized".
With that being said, the "120 stars" TAS is certainly not close to perfection as new tricks were quickly found just after we finished it.
The upcoming "0 stars" submission though will certainly be the most optimized N64 movie to date.
What new tricks were found? And where are you with 0 star?
Most known improvements are listed in the 120 stars submission text, but a new red coins route + new RR100 route/big house in the sky. Plus, many little improvements that were omitted because of luck manipulation or were just too hard to pull-off or required too much testing at the time.
As for the 0 stars, I'm not working on it, but the team is still trying to manipulate Bowser 1 to do the "dance". They should be done by the end of the month, I'm not sure.
Edit: to clarify, I'd bet my wallet that the next SM64 any% submission will be a single-digit frame improvement, while the next OoT run will probably be at LEAST two digits (likely three).
Sorry for replying such an old comment, but:
At the time of that quote, the OoT movie was 56:54.2. The next one was 22:50.27.
So it's more like by half an hour. lol
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jlun2 wrote:
Acheron86 wrote:
Edit: to clarify, I'd bet my wallet that the next SM64 any% submission will be a single-digit frame improvement, while the next OoT run will probably be at LEAST two digits (likely three).
Sorry for replying such an old comment, but:
At the time of that quote, the OoT movie was 56:54.2. The next one was 22:50.27.
So it's more like by half an hour. lol
Exactly like he said. At least two digits. The next OoT run improved the previous one by 122636 frames. That's six digits, which is more than two. In fact, it's significantly more than two, but more than two or three nonetheless.
Meanwhile, the current SM64 run in production has saved, what, seven frames so far?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
