Topic by Kuwaga

Posted: 6/19/2011 10:01 PM

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Kuwaga

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248

sonicpacker wrote:

why should I believe any of the links you are posting?

You shouldn't. But neither should you believe in that documentary. No matter who it is that supports him. And results do lie sometimes, f.e. if it's cherry picking or fraud. It's ok to question whether the FDA is corrupt though. That could actually have lead to some interesting discussion if Burzynski wasn't your prime argument.

Posted: 6/19/2011 10:07 PM

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sonicpacker

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Location: California

DarkKobold wrote:

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/74/2/137.full.pdf+html http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/54/2/110 Yay for peer reviewed scientific journals. Phase II isn't going so hot.

I believe the first link is referenced in the movie, and they point out that the information wasn't collected/documented correctly. It was not trials conducted by Burzynski himself, but the American Cancer Society in agreement with him. However, the ACS did not follow protocol and went behind Burzynski's back multiple times.

Kuwaga wrote:

if Burzynski wasn't your prime argument.

He isn't. I was replying to Truncated's post.

sonicpacker wrote:

The point of the video is not to prove his "cure" actually works. I don't know why you guys keep bringing up fraud. The real point is that the FDA is run by money grubbing whores that don't actually care about what's best for the people of the US.

https://personalitygrowth.com/entp-myths-stereotypes-misconceptions-cliches-and-tropes-that-are-inaccurate/

Posted: 6/19/2011 10:48 PM
(Edited: 6/19/2011 10:57 PM)

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nfq

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Posts: 1204

Not only is there a cure for cancer, but drug companies also spend millions of dollars to create new and better drugs for causing diseases like cancer. Some drugs are also put into our food (food additives). Personally, I think this documentary is more interesting. It explains how the drug companies use drugs to make people sick (or sicker than the society has already made them), so that they can sell more drugs, to make more money. Being mentally ill in a sick society is often just a healthy and normal reaction, so the ones who are sick are usually the ones who are healthy, before they are given drugs to feel miserably normal again. It's not that doctors or drug companies are evil, it's just that money causes people to deceive and create problems to make more money. Like food additives, which causes the food to last longer or taste better, but gives diseases so that drug companies can sell more drugs. If there was no monetary profit to be gained from medicine, people would be more concerned about of each other than the size of their wallets. The system of money has not only corrupted the medical industry of course, but most other things; even science to some extent. Money is the primary goal in most things, people and the earth are secondary.

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Posted: 6/19/2011 10:57 PM

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Kuwaga

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248

The way to counteract corruption is a strong government that actually acts more in the interest of its people as opposed to corporate interest. If you don't trust the FDA, then you're probably looking for that.

Posted: 6/19/2011 11:00 PM

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DarkKobold

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Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
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nfq wrote:

even science to some extent.

Whoa, it is a reverse Rapture, in both form and ideology. That is too funny for words. Please tell me the guy in charge is Ryan Andrew. That would make my day.[/url]

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 6/19/2011 11:10 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

I'd still like to hear why this guy hasn't gone to another country to do an end run around the FDA. If he actually has a cancer cure then he should be welcomed with open arms just about everywhere.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 6/19/2011 11:30 PM

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Bobo_the_King

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Joined: 8/5/2007
Posts: 865

I'll do my best to not get sucked into this argument, but do any of you cancer cure conspiracy cooks know what cancer is? If you knew what it is, I think you'd understand that not only is there no cure, but there never will be a cure. I'll be waiting.

Posted: 6/20/2011 12:40 AM

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Inzult

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Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
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nfq wrote:

Personally, I think this documentary is more interesting.

I'm almost 2 hours into this beast and it's starting to wear on me. It has a lot less human-interest stories meant to work me emotionally but it's replaced with alarmism, which I have a bit of a harder time sitting through. There's still a lot of interesting stuff in here though and I'll watch the last hour later. Both of these documentaries are getting at more or less the same overall point anyway; the way the pharmaceutical companies, the FDA and doctors interact is flawed and needs fixing.

Posted: 6/20/2011 12:50 AM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

A cure isn't outside the realm of possibility. You need some consistent way to target cancerous cells while leaving normal cells alone, which is tricky because there's multiple ways for cells to become cancerous. But I don't think it's impossible. Chemotherapy, for example, simply targets and destroys all cells that divide rapidly, which includes cancerous cells as well as a number of other cells (e.g. hair follicles). You could also try to prevent cancer from occurring in the first place, though this is getting into very speculative territory. Cancer usually comes about through accumulated errors when copying DNA. Theoretically, you could make a retrovirus that does more rigorous error checking on each cell's DNA than the body already does during cell division, recognize pre-cancerous cells (having a large number of errors compared to some master copy), and kill them off, to be replaced by normal cell division from healthy cells. This wouldn't be a "cure" for cancer -- more like a "vaccine" (i.e. preventive care, as opposed to curative care).

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 6/20/2011 1:28 AM

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Twelvepack

Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO

Derakon wrote:

A cure isn't outside the realm of possibility.

The point he was trying to make (I think) is that cancer is a large class of diseases, and can not be cured categorically. A "cure for cancer" would be like saying a "cure for viruses". Any cure might work on some cancers, but probably wouldn't work on others. Just as there are no antibiotics that can cure all bacterial infections, there will be no universal cure for cancer.

Has never colored a dinosaur.

Posted: 6/20/2011 3:26 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

I can honestly tell you all something. If I end up with some type of Cancer, I won't be going through Chemo-Therapy. I've seen what that garbage can do first hand. My Aunt died from Lung cancer which spread up from her Liver. Every day she got weaker and weaker because of the Chemo until eventually she couldn't even stand up anymore. I'll NEVER, EVER forget what that shit did to her! I'll hunt around on the internet for possible cures.

Posted: 6/20/2011 3:39 AM

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Patashu

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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4014

Kitsune wrote:

I can honestly tell you all something. If I end up with some type of Cancer, I won't be going through Chemo-Therapy.

It depends on the kind of cancer, you have to realize - some cancers WILL kill you slowly, and unlike the chemo you can't turn the cancer off when it starts to get deadly. Chemo is a far more painful thing to see because it's willingly applied and the results appear so quickly - but that's your emotional, gooey human evolved parts of you talking. Ask your doctor whether chemo or no chemo has a better chance of success, know the numbers.

My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu

Posted: 6/20/2011 3:44 AM

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Brandon

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Pro-tip: if a government organization is created to do something, it will probably do nothing of use (If not outright help persist the problem), drain the taxpayer for profit, and attempt to lobby for why it should continue on the grounds that the problem isn't solved yet. No, I didn't watch this yet. I probably should though. I'll keep it in mind.

All the best, Brandon Evans

Posted: 6/20/2011 3:44 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

I'm NOT going through Chemo. What part of that in my last post didn't you understand? After seeing what it did to my Aunt, I'll take my chances.

Posted: 6/20/2011 4:21 AM

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Twelvepack

Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO

What I really want to know is why people hate on the FDA so much. Granted, they have the inefficiencies and backward practices that are typical of government organizations, but what they do is critical. We have the FDA to thank that the antacid (or whatever) you buy has had to undergo trials to prove both that it is safe, and their claims that it works have been substantiated. The fact that someone has devised a new medication and had to prove that it was safe and effective before being allowed to market it is a good thing. We can argue the specifics all day, but the point remains that having a government organization that has the power to stop some quack from peddling false hope is a good thing.

Has never colored a dinosaur.

Posted: 6/20/2011 4:33 AM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

As far as I'm aware, if you have cancer your options at this point are basically surgery, chemo, and death, in rough order of preference. Not all cancers can be cut out of you -- particularly, if they've made it to the bloodstream. And Brandon: the first goal of every organization is to maintain its own existence, government or no. That said, if you took away the FDA, guess how many people would die every year from contaminated food, poison masquerading as medicine, ineffectual "therapies" (radium water! It's good for you!), etc. Guess what would happen to the economy without the Federal Transit Administration to maintain the roads. Guess how long it'd take working conditions to plummet to 19th-century standards without the Department of Labor. Libertarian fantasies about the abolition of government in every meaningful form are sociopathically stupid.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 6/20/2011 4:48 AM

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Cardboard

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Tragically enough, this reminds me of people refusing their children vaccinations because of something that is on the internet.

Warp wrote:

omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!

Posted: 6/20/2011 4:50 AM

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Brandon

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I'm not saying abolish everything, but sometimes I do have to wonder if we'd be better off without these organizations, not because they're ideologically flawed, but that their application is either poor or outright sinister. I'm sure like in any other organization, there are some good people who really care about what they do, but I have a hard time believing that the government is in the best interest of my health when they label cannabis as a Schedule I narcotic poison and fluoride as an innovation in dentistry that we should force into the water supply. Don't even get me started on the DEA, Homeland Security, or the Department of Education.

All the best, Brandon Evans

Posted: 6/20/2011 4:59 AM

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Sonikkustar

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Interestingly, I remember reading up this news article awhile ago about somebody being cured of their cancer by having stem cells. If there is a possibillity that they could find a link between the stem cells & cancer then there may actually be a cure for cancer in the near future.

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Posted: 6/20/2011 5:00 AM

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Patashu

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Joined: 10/2/2005
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Kitsune wrote:

I'm NOT going through Chemo. What part of that in my last post didn't you understand? After seeing what it did to my Aunt, I'll take my chances.

Appeal to emotion. Unless chemo is more likely to kill you than the cancer, you should take the chemo. EDIT: For those wary about the FDA, I'd read this to realize why we 100% need an organization like them: http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/WhatWeDo/History/ProductRegulation/SulfanilamideDisaster/default.htm

My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu

Posted: 6/20/2011 5:16 AM

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Brandon

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Patashu wrote:

For those wary about the FDA, I'd read this to realize why we 100% need an organization like them: http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/WhatWeDo/History/ProductRegulation/SulfanilamideDisaster/default.htm

Again, in case I wasn't clear, I agree completely.

All the best, Brandon Evans

Posted: 6/20/2011 5:19 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

Patashu wrote:

Kitsune wrote:
I'm NOT going through Chemo. What part of that in my last post didn't you understand? After seeing what it did to my Aunt, I'll take my chances.
Appeal to emotion. Unless chemo is more likely to kill you than the cancer, you should take the chemo. EDIT: For those wary about the FDA, I'd read this to realize why we 100% need an organization like them: http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/WhatWeDo/History/ProductRegulation/SulfanilamideDisaster/default.htm

Chemo is not gonna happen. I'll take my chances without it if it comes to it. I'll live longer without having my fuckin' brain or whatever else radiated. They call it therapy, but all it is, is a way for the FDA to milk you for money while they hope you die from Radiation Poisoning. And that's how I honestly feel. Any doctor tells me to get Chemo, they won't have any teeth left by the time I'm done with them.

Posted: 6/20/2011 5:35 AM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Wikipedia has an article on water fluoridation that you might want to read. At least the introduction. Short version: it works to prevent tooth decay and it costs about a buck per person per year. I'll grant that the stance on marijuana is absurd, which just illustrates that everyone's subject to politics. Along a similar line, the TSA is almost certainly doing more harm than good. But fluoridation is a good thing. Remember, General Ripper in Dr. Strangelove was a loony.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 6/20/2011 5:41 AM

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DarkKobold

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Kitsune wrote:

They call it therapy, but all it is, is a way for the FDA to milk you for money while they hope you die from Radiation Poisoning.

How does the Food and Drug Administration make money off chemotherapy?

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 6/20/2011 5:43 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

Don't really know what they have to do with it, and I don't really care. All Chemo does is kill, just like the FDA.