Lethal Weapon for the SNES is one of many licensed titles to be made by Ocean Software. It's a Shooter/Platformer that constantly tests the player's endurance with swarms of enemies and puzzles.
Game objectives
Emulator used: Snes9X v 1.51
Aims for fastest time
Takes damage to save time
Uses death to save time..?
Abuse programmer errors and glitches
Contains Speed Entertainment tradeoffs
Comments
I wanted to finish this run, because I felt all the cool stuff I found would've went to waste. I tried to look for a few more glitches and stuff just to get as much speed back as I could.
Glitches Used:
Double Shot(Fire two bullets at the expense of one by jumping right at the beginning moments of firing)
Bouncing(During the last frames of almost hitting ground press/hold jump, and you will jump again without the standing animation)
Gun Posing ( Not a glitch of use persay, but if you firing on the last frames of falling. The Player will hold his gun in the air)
Clipping- (Two glitches I use of abuse clipping errors. One for platform to skip a part of the level. Another from firing and crouching on a certain angle.)
Workflow comments
For the most part in this run I make judgements for what enemies to take out, take damage from or jumping over as low as possible. There was constant planning on routes, and trying to evade waiting for anything too long. Some routes had payoffs others did not. Timing was essential for all the levels. Jumping too high or waiting too long would end up costing a lot of trouble ahead in a current screen.
Other comments
The Audience will enjoy seeing me go through the levels in a fast paced manner. They will also enjoy seeing the constant glitch abuse that makes the player look overpowered.
If there were to be more glitches found that could either skip a level or clip past the barriers. Then that's the only dramatic improvement I could suggest.
Feos, Mklip, Fractal Fusion - For Feedback and inspiration to finish.
I'm Truncated and what is this? An unclaimed submission? Not any more!
Truncated: This was not that easy to decide. Even though the game is not that great, there is some potential. There is quite a lot of left-over ammo which could have been used to save time. It was mentioned that the menus at the beginning are not properly optimized. One option was to accept it to encourage an improvement in the future. To me, this requires a good viewer response in spite of technical mistakes. Since there hasn't been such a response, in the end, I have decided to reject it. A better optimized movie would probably be accepted. Good luck next time!
For a SNES game, this had the strongest NES design sensibilities I've ever seen, at least visually speaking.
This game is....not good. There are so many enemies, and so few things you can do with them. Inevitably, the run becomes boring, and I don't think there's much that can be done about that given the game choice.
That out of the way, I have some questions about the run. In the first Mission, you jump--a lot--in places that seem like odd choices for jumping. The hanging-pole-traversing sections spring to mind. Is it really faster to keep jumping and having your x-velocity constantly reset than traversing it "normally?"
I also saw a couple parts in the sewer-pipes section of the second Mission that looked like there was some loss due to lack of precision; some of the parts where you were on the water's surface but the biggest question mark was where the pipes rose up and to the left, and you took the fork that went down and left; looked like the jump could have been better executed for gain. Maybe I missed something there.
The first boss was odd too; you seem to be able to fire even while on the ground (at least as Danny Glover, maybe Mel Gibson can't do it as well?), and it looked like that might have helped make the boss die faster. Again, I can't be sure without testing, but it looked like another place where jumping was unnecessary and possibly detrimental. Still might be wrong on this one too.
Even if these things are justified, I don't think this run lives up to the site's creed of creating interesting, striking, or spectacular videos of gameplay. I started yawning while fast-forwarding. That's a No vote from me.
For a SNES game, this had the strongest NES design sensibilities I've ever seen, at least visually speaking.
This game is....not good. There are so many enemies, and so few things you can do with them. Inevitably, the run becomes boring, and I don't think there's much that can be done about that given the game choice.
That out of the way, I have some questions about the run. In the first Mission, you jump--a lot--in places that seem like odd choices for jumping. The hanging-pole-traversing sections spring to mind. Is it really faster to keep jumping and having your x-velocity constantly reset than traversing it "normally?"
I also saw a couple parts in the sewer-pipes section of the second Mission that looked like there was some loss due to lack of precision; some of the parts where you were on the water's surface but the biggest question mark was where the pipes rose up and to the left, and you took the fork that went down and left; looked like the jump could have been better executed for gain. Maybe I missed something there.
The first boss was odd too; you seem to be able to fire even while on the ground (at least as Danny Glover, maybe Mel Gibson can't do it as well?), and it looked like that might have helped make the boss die faster. Again, I can't be sure without testing, but it looked like another place where jumping was unnecessary and possibly detrimental. Still might be wrong on this one too.
Even if these things are justified, I don't think this run lives up to the site's creed of creating interesting, striking, or spectacular videos of gameplay. I started yawning while fast-forwarding. That's a No vote from me.
First off Jumping across the ropes is actually faster than climbing across. I have tested to see which was faster. Secondly the boss thing is a glitch I'm abusing where I can take two shots at a time by jumping at the very last frames on the ground essentially it is faster than waiting for the one shot to cool off.
I guess it's as fast as I could get other than some minor things, but like you said bad game choice.
Still a shame that even with all the cool glitches I found for this game. It's just not enough
I was hoping that more shots could be used, since it seems like shooting stuff seems faster than trying to avoid them.
At a few points, it looks like you missed shots (extra bullets flying across the screen). Was there a reason for that?
In the first level, it looks like you could just walk up the black slopes instead of climbing the ropes. Is there a reason you couldn't just walk up the slopes?
Also, if it is possible, maybe kill off the first character to get to the second one (with full health) instead of switching him after the first level?
Anyway, I like this version a lot better than the previous one. I tend to be in an optimization mood though, so I try to think of things that could make it faster. I wish that your character wasn't forced to stop and go so often.
I was hoping that more shots could be used, since it seems like shooting stuff seems faster than trying to avoid them.
At a few points, it looks like you missed shots (extra bullets flying across the screen). Was there a reason for that?
In the first level, it looks like you could just walk up the black slopes instead of climbing the ropes. Is there a reason you couldn't just walk up the slopes?
Also, if it is possible, maybe kill off the first character to get to the second one (with full health) instead of switching him after the first level?
Anyway, I like this version a lot better than the previous one. I tend to be in an optimization mood though, so I try to think of things that could make it faster. I wish that your character wasn't forced to stop and go so often.
To answer your questions
-The missed shots are mainly from the glitch of just firing and jumping. The player will always take another shot. It's not a miss on my account, but rather just jumping as soon as possible.
-Yes those black slopes. They have a big collision box. No matter how high jump I get pushed back
-You can, but it takes equal length for it to load, and takes you back to the beginning of the level
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Watched the first level so far. Sometimes you make several full speed jumps and then walk with no delay at the same speed, but sometimes you get stopped if you start walking after these fast jump. What's the difference? These stops kill the pace badly.
Also, is the jump height fixed? You seem to stop moving while jumping on floating platforms, if the second jump is too high to hit the edge of the platform.
EDIT: Water sections. Sometimes you were swimming, sometimes you were frequently jumping out of the water to increase the speed being in midair. There also was a place where you almost filtered out of the pipe:
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Watched the first level so far. Sometimes you make several full speed jumps and then walk with no delay at the same speed, but sometimes you get stopped if you start walking after these fast jump. What's the difference? These stops kill the pace badly.
Also, is the jump height fixed? You seem to stop moving while jumping on floating platforms, if the second jump is too high to hit the edge of the platform.
EDIT: Water sections. Sometimes you were swimming, sometimes you were frequently jumping out of the water to increase the speed being in midair. There also was a place where you almost filtered out of the pipe:
From what I tested on this problem. It's very well possible that this games take account friction on certain surfaces. Probably why the game physics stop and sometimes not. No matter how high or low I jump on certain areas. It will either stop or keep going.
The jump height is fixed to some extent on how far up it will go just on the tap or hold. Most of the time the stopping mid air on few frames is either there is an enemy on the platform, Want to land on a specific spot to jump off from, or avoid slipping off.
Yes that was a clipping glitch I left in the run. There is another one you can do on the wall at the end of the walkway you jump off from. Problem is there was invisible collision though.
i liked to see how this childhood destroying game got destroyed (never managed to pass the first level when i was younger)...
the run seems improvable and i had to press Y to get to the credits
but it's a perfect chance / training for future newcomers
i'm giving a yes vote .
Some questions/observations for you Cooljay:
When you end the game, you have 13x6 rounds of ammo left. Without knowing too much about the game, it seems that you could have used this to gain time.
Quite a few times, you jump over enemies you could have killed instead, which loses time due to the stop after a jump. Additionally, you often jump when you shoot to double-shoot, seemingly to conserve ammo, which again loses time on the landing. And finally, you take a lot of damage from enemies it looked like you could have killed instead, and you are forced to take detours to pick up extra health.
Some questions/observations for you Cooljay:
When you end the game, you have 13x6 rounds of ammo left. Without knowing too much about the game, it seems that you could have used this to gain time.
Quite a few times, you jump over enemies you could have killed instead, which loses time due to the stop after a jump. Additionally, you often jump when you shoot to double-shoot, seemingly to conserve ammo, which again loses time on the landing. And finally, you take a lot of damage from enemies it looked like you could have killed instead, and you are forced to take detours to pick up extra health.
It was an error on my part mainly from taking the previous feedback on my old runs that I was killing too many enemies and that I should jump over them. As for double shooting I do it mainly because some goons take 2 hits to kill, and they are way too close to me. Once I hit one they run towards me to damage me. Other times I kill them, because in the future they end up shooting at me running away forcing to duck.
I try to do it only when I have to or can place it in a moment where I have to jump anyways. For everything else run and gun is the preferred option.
Regarding damage intake. Most of them were from enemies who had 2 HP (Flamethrower, Bazooka, Machine Gunner) and were fairly close. I could've double shot them, but I would've had to stop and run anyways. Other times I did it, so I don't have to duck under endless amounts of machine gun bullets.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
It's very well possible that this games take account friction on certain surfaces.
This just CAN NOT be the case. My first guess it depends on the speed, like, when you do several jumps in a row, you don't slow down starting walking. But you do after only one jump. I could test it I think. Anyway, if constrant jumping is faster because it cancels these stops, it's nothing wrong to constant jump. If my testings would proove the measure of improvableness of this run I'm guessing it has, I will vote No. Otherwise I'll vote Meh, because this is a fantastic game to master basic tas techniques and you don't seem to do it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
It's very well possible that this games take account friction on certain surfaces.
This just CAN NOT be the case. My first guess it depends on the speed, like, when you do several jumps in a row, you don't slow down starting walking. But you do after only one jump. I could test it I think. Anyway, if constrant jumping is faster because it cancels these stops, it's nothing wrong to constant jump. If my testings would proove the measure of improvableness of this run I'm guessing it has, I will vote No. Otherwise I'll vote Meh, because this is a fantastic game to master basic tas techniques and you don't seem to do it.
After checking out what you said regarding your theory. On certain surfaces no matter how many times I jump my velocity gets reset like an invisible wall just stops him in mid air. I even checked before redoing the beginning of just going to the first mission by bouncing, and it was slower than walking in the making of this TAS. What I am more hopeful for improveableness if there is a way to get out of bounds of the map with clipping glitches without being stopped by an invisible wall.
feos: I tested it now and whether you lose your speed when landing depends on the floor type only. On regular floors you always lose speed and on special floors such as slopes, moving platforms and some others, you always keep it. You can test it on the level selection stage already, on the bottom floor you lose your speed, but on the upper floor you keep it.
It also seems you can easily fire your gun quickly enough to take out enemies you are approaching, even if they take two hits to kill.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Crap. This is weird. This is realy so. But still, as this game suggests a great room for item management and minor movement optimisation, it just can't be tased well enough with less than 10k rerecords. I'd expect several thousands for each level. I'd expect posting and improving WIPs. I'd expect making sure all that can be done IS done to the game. Meh vote.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
Truncated: Thanks for verifying that the floor type is responsible for whether the character sticks or not after a jump. On watching this movie carefully, it seems to me that the main factor is whether the floor has solid collision detection on the bottom: if you can pass through the bottom, then the floor won't stick, and vice versa. That should help in planning which areas require killing more enemies.
Cooljay: Nice job improving your previous submission by so much! However, in light of these discoveries about how the floor works, I think there's still quite a bit of improvement left. I'm voting Meh this time, but I think a run which has better jumping and ammo management can certainly earn a Yes vote.
The health management in this run is also pretty good, but I imagine it can be even better when you take the sticky floors into account.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically.
Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.)
Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html)
Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature!
Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Game choice is fine. Platform games are very well suited for TAS unless they have serious bugs or are so bad that they're punchlines. It's been said above though, this is a decent run with room for improvements.
Voting a weak yes for now.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
I know I already said it doesn't matter what methods a TASer uses to create his runs, but neglecting the use of Frame Advance on the menus is something hard to overlook.
There are few places to improve on the run too, like when you jump on those ladders; sometimes you fall a little before grabbing, timing your jumps surely would improve that.
My advice is for you to redo the run if you really want it to have real chances of being published(I mean, stay published for a long time...), but that's up to you and if you do accept it, then good luck!
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
I know I already said it doesn't matter what methods a TASer uses to create his runs, but neglecting the use of Frame Advance on the menus is something hard to overlook.
There are few places to improve on the run too, like when you jump on those ladders; sometimes you fall a little before grabbing, timing your jumps surely would improve that.
My advice is for you to redo the run if you really want it to have real chances of being published(I mean, stay published for a long time...), but that's up to you and if you do accept it, then good luck!
I assure you it's not the end of this TAS rejected or not. I do plan to make an improvement regardless with sticky floors being a new light to my eye.
