This is a any% run of a game called VVVVVV. I used version 2.0 because in the latest version (2.1) you can't commit suicide by pressing R. The ingame time of this run is 12:33 which is 45 seconds faster than the current toolless run (13:18), which also uses version 2.0.
Game objectives
Emulator used: Hourglass r81 (Multithreading and Wait Sync: Allow)
Aims for the fastest completion
Skips Gravitron
Uses death to save time
Comments
The physics of this game are strange, that's why I found it hard to optimize this. In this game you basically only have 5 keys. < and > to move the guy around. Action to flip and to talk. Enter to warp from a teleporter and R to commit suicide.
Death saved time in the tower because the screen will scroll to a specific position based on the checkpoint when you respawn. If you die and the checkpoint is at the top of the screen, it will scroll down and save time.
Glitches
Dying in the intro
I think the game gets confused if you die in the intro where you shouldn't supposed to die so it brings you back to your starting position. It skips a few scenes but the biggest save is that you can skip Gravitron because saving Violet doesn't lead you to the grey rooms.
Going through "Inversion Planes"
Inversion Planes or bounce lines can be skipped if they are near the floor. You press up then release it one frame then press up again. This is possible without tools if you try a bit :)
Other Comments
I guess this game can have different branches. There are twenty Shiny Trinkets around the game which could make a 100% run interesting. It is also possible to create a movie without dying, which wouldn't skip Gravitron for example. There is a No Death Mode which can be unlocked and you can skip cutscenes with it.
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
(my guess is that some people, like me, find the use of easy suicide to be sketchy and are trying to find a rules loophole to ban it instead of saying that stylistically it's just bad)
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Isn't that what this discussion has been about since the start?
Yes, that is exactly what I was commenting on.
RachelB wrote:
And i am sorry, but there is just no requirement for something to be "distributed through official channels and listings from the originating company/entity" for it to be considered released. It may not be an official release, but an unofficial release is still a release.
Complain all you want, but the TASVideos published runs/suggestions and ROM dumpers disagree (which is what I was pointing out, and what pertains to this run).As I have linked multiple times, both groups have different standards and practices for software released through the original person/channel, and patches/updates released through other means. When it comes to TASes this generally only comes into practice with translation patches, but user-created bugfixes for ROMs are out there as well (it's just TASvideos generally likes more bugs so I don't think I've ever seen anybody complain about that).
Both groups can release programs and patches, but in the ROM world there's a distinction between official releases and non-official ones. This distinction (and subsequent categorization) is important for preservation, and it's what TASVideos goes by. ROM hacks of official games can be included on TASVideos if they are popular and well-made enough (obvious Super Demo World mention here), but they're put up as different games because they are not official releases by the people who made the original software it's based on.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
(my guess is that some people, like me, find the use of easy suicide to be sketchy and are trying to find a rules loophole to ban it instead of saying that stylistically it's just bad)
Which is why I'm making sure to bring up plenty of examples from already-posted speedruns, often of games people particularly love. That way, hopefully it's harder for them to lie to themselves since more would potentially be at stake if they took an actual stance, 'ya know? It's easier to post "This game I don't like should not be allowed" than "This game I don't like should not be allowed, and you should also remove these four runs of this game I personally like too".
Also inb4 "No TASes that show less than five colors on screen at once." :P
And the reason version 2.0 is still the version of VVVVVV that Steam users are getting is because 2.0 is the most recent official "release", which is what pertains to this run.
To go on further, if you buy VVVVVV from the official site (which you have to use, since Hourglass can't run the Steam version (at least for me)), you still get 2.0.
As it is right now, 2.1 is a beta release, not the latest official release.
And before you ask: When I found out that you can't run the Steam version on Hourglass, I bought it from the official site moments after the TAS was submitted. I got 2.0.
On another note: I gave my Yes vote some time ago, because this TAS is well done.
I think the game gets confused if you die in the intro where you shouldn't supposed to die so it brings you back to your starting position. It skips a few scenes but the biggest save is that you can skip Gravitron because saving Violet doesn't lead you to the grey rooms.
Can you explain to me how this works? I tried this trick in non-TAS play and when I rescued Violet, it erased my rescue of the two crewmates I found earlier, rendering the game unwinnable. Is this something that requires TAS-level precision or am I missing something?
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6337
Location: The land down under.
So SDA updated today (17th/18th April 2013) and it has an update of VVVVVV which uses 2.0 (run was submitted 2012-12-23)
So now I have a question.
Turska: How much longer do we have to wait?
And is this whole dispute of which version to use over now? (Also question what version did Cave Story use isn't that an old version too?)
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Dumps that encoders are not sure they could encode during a month can instead be sent to Ilari, and the publication will be up in a week.
<_<
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
This movie has been published.
The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie.
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[2368] Windows VVVVVV by Masterjun in 13:30.25
Yes vote. This game looks very difficult if someone plays it for the first time, but the movie gives us the nearest way to complete a level. What a good job, of course it should be published.
My two cents: the version discussion was over when someone mentioned several pages back that "2.0" is the first C++ release of this originally-shockwave-flash game. Whether or not it is the current "correct" version to use as "latest" is irrelevant because it is, and will always remain, the first hourglassable release, and nobody here seems to be arguing against the school of thought "use the first one or use the most current one". Guess what? It's the first one.
The run itself is sexy, btw. As soon as someone does the no-death mode we won't have to worry about this controversy as there will be a pretty VVVVVV run for everyone's tastes.
By the way, if you're looking for the soundtrack, believe it's called PPPPPP.
I'm curious if this run will also sync in Flip Mode?
(VVVVVV has an alternative mode where you play the whole game upside down, but which is otherwise identical)
TASing the older version doesn't seem odd to me if it was one of commercial versions, DKC any% speedrun also used older one to use a warp glitch and no one didn't bother by it.
Anyway, VVVVVV was one of games on my 'want-to-see' list and your speedrun didn't disappoint me. Yes vote.
It bothers me every single time. You guys might be all fine cherry picking specific versions that feature bugs that open up incredible time saving strategies, but I much prefer watching TAS's of the version that best demonstrates what the developer originally expected of players (ie: the latest bug fixed version).
If you're just going to TAS the most broken version of games then... I don't really see much entertainment in that. Going out of your way to do things that have been fixed and/or the developer has clearly indicated shouldn't be possible, just doesn't entertain me at all. You're no longer TAS'ing the game in my eyes, instead you're just TAS'ing broken software.
I mean which are you more likely to properly play yourself? The latest and most stable version of a game? Or a buggy/error/crash prone version? Why would you WANT to see a TAS of what you are least likely to play yourself?
It bothers me every single time. You guys might be all fine cherry picking specific versions that feature bugs that open up incredible time saving strategies, but I much prefer watching TAS's of the version that best demonstrates what the developer originally expected of players (ie: the latest bug fixed version).
Masterjun did pick the latest final release when doing this TAS. v2.1 didn't exist back then.
It bothers me every single time. You guys might be all fine cherry picking specific versions that feature bugs that open up incredible time saving strategies, but I much prefer watching TAS's of the version that best demonstrates what the developer originally expected of players (ie: the latest bug fixed version).
Masterjun did pick the latest final release when doing this TAS. v2.1 didn't exist back then.
But he says in the description he CHOSE v2.0 even after knowing about v2.1... or at least that's the impression I got (If he did indeed begin making the TAS before v2.1's release then fair enough in this case). Also I edited in one final paragraph in to my last post.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6337
Location: The land down under.
franpa wrote:
But he says in the description he CHOSE v2.0 even after knowing about v2.1... or at least that's the impression I got (If he did indeed begin making the TAS before v2.1's release then fair enough in this case). Also I edited in one final paragraph in to my last post.
*Sighs*
Blazephlozard wrote:
In the case of VVVVVV, and this run, it's absolutely not an issue, for a few reasons:
3. The version of the game you download from Steam is still 2.0, so the 2.1 linked on the distractionware forums is not even the main commercial version.
Rydian wrote:
And the reason version 2.0 is still the version of VVVVVV that Steam users are getting is because 2.0 is the most recent official "release", which is what pertains to this run..
Rydian wrote:
Also...
2.0 is still the current version (and I can use R to kill myself in it). Anything past that is a beta released on the forums. This has already been posted.
Edit: Also Masterjun would only know about this because of the last 6 pages of this forum discussion.
Edit 2: Oh and there isn't a confirmed update onto 2.1
"10 player levels (17 in 2.1.beta)"
BETA. IT'S NOT EVEN FINAL.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Few have enough courage to wait for years until the absolutely bug-free versions come out. Only those deserve the great right to TAS them!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
(my guess is that some people, like me, find the use of easy suicide to be sketchy and are trying to find a rules loophole to ban it instead of saying that stylistically it's just bad)
2.0 is still the current version (and I can use R to kill myself in it). Anything past that is a beta released on the forums. This has already been posted.
