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Posted: 3/24/2008 4:39 PM
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Oddity
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
There are no runs of this game? It should have been the first game ever TAS'd along with SMetroid (I guess the done-first Mario games still hold the most priority, though, but this comes next).
<^>v AB X LR s
Posted: 3/24/2008 4:50 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away
Simple: optimizing racing games is way more tedious than optimizing platformers. That's why Saturn spent 13k rerecords TASing only one track.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 3/24/2008 5:42 PM
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superjupi
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
Indeed. After you've optimized one lap, your positioning for the next lap is not the same as it was for the first, so you won't benefit with a copy-and-paste. Then in a game like F-Zero, you have boosts in the equation which also will not be used exactly the same from lap to lap and still be considered optimal. It's a huge undertaking that nobody's been willing to accept, and I don't expect anyone to ever do so.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Posted: 3/24/2008 8:31 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone
My best recommendation for a good TAS is to beat all three leagues, then play BS F-Zero II Grand Prix and beat that one class, too.
Posted: 3/24/2008 8:53 PM
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Saturn
Player (209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
As moozooh said, F-Zero is a real pain to optimize. I would really like to see a full GP TAS of this game, so if you feel like going through all that, dartht33bagger, then go for it!
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
Posted: 3/25/2008 1:24 AM
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dartht33bagger
Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon
Well I'm going to try and make a TAS of this game. Here is the first wip, any feedback would be useful, i can restart if i need to. I think its pretty optimized though:http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1624712095/f-zero%20wip%201.smv
Posted: 3/25/2008 1:44 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
86 rerecords is not going to get you optimal times. Saturn's TT movie is a full 10 seconds faster than yours.
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Posted: 3/25/2008 1:53 AM
(Edited: 3/25/2008 1:55 AM)
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Halamantariel
Player (104)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 562
Location: Québec, Canada
woah .. many things wrong with this WIP. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you don't know that much about F-Zero. 1) You didn't use the pink car (highest top speed, but then again I might be wrong in thinking that's the best one to use. can anyone confirm?) 2) You didn't use R or L in turns (to make tighter turns) 3) You didn't use A to use the boosts you get when you cross the finish line each turn 4) You didn't use the "shortcut" through the (don't know how to say that) gray area right after the jump (you can drive between the gray and the wall and there's no slowdown) I'm not saying I could do better, but I think these bits of information are vital for a TAS. By the way, I don't mean this post to sound harsh or anything. I think it's constructive criticism, but if you find this harsh or offensive, please forgive my French Canadian roots :) EDIT: 500th post! Woot!
Posted: 3/25/2008 1:54 AM
(Edited: 3/25/2008 1:56 AM)
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superjupi
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
Seems Comicalflop beat me to the reply button. But yes, your WIP is just shy of ten seconds behind Saturn's concept demo of the same track. I suggest you try Samurai Goroh instead of Captain Falcon, for starters. You may also want to watch Saturn's run for comparison's sake. Edit to add a confirmation to Halamantariel's comment that the pink car (Samurai Goroh) is indeed the ideal choice. This is debatable on some of the twisty turny tracks, but generally speaking, Goroh holds the majority of the world records due to his high top speed.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Posted: 3/25/2008 1:55 AM
(Edited: 3/25/2008 1:57 AM)
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andrewg
Experienced player (699)
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA
NES TAS of 2011
Also, something to note, that boosts should be used while in the areas where you usually gain damage. You are then at the very edge of the stage when making turns while tapping A. Getting bumped from other vehicals is the best way to start out, sometimes you can get two bumps pretty quickly in order to accelerate pretty quickly.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
Posted: 3/25/2008 1:57 AM
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dartht33bagger
Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon
Ya I havn't played a whole bunch of f-zero, i just got the cart a week ago and the rom yesterday. I never knew you could do sharper turns and such. I will definatly remake the tas using these tips, thanks a lot man.
Posted: 3/25/2008 3:16 AM
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Burning_Death
Former player
Joined: 7/16/2004
Posts: 108
Location: Germany, Bremen
Fire Stingray (purple car) is the best choice for every track. Be sure to break at least the current world record ( http://www.mrfixitonline.com/f0/viewladder.php?ladder=1 ) for every track. Study this videos carefully, you need a lot more practise: http://www.mrfixitonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=649 Becoming pro in F-Zero is much harder than it looks.
.:| www.superplayers.de |:.
Posted: 3/25/2008 3:17 AM
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dartht33bagger
Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon
I redid the first track, does this look better?-->http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1730436214/F-Zero%20wip1.smv
Posted: 3/25/2008 3:28 AM
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superjupi
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
Only about four seconds slower this time, so you're moving in the right direction. You're missing the rocket start off the line, and your boost usage would be put to better usage elsewhere on the track, but your racing lines are much improved.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Posted: 3/25/2008 12:45 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone
Also, there is supposed to be some kind of trick to taking a shortcut in Port Town. It happens immediately after crossing a lap, but it requires at least one turbo boost. Look it up on YouTube.
Posted: 3/25/2008 3:13 PM
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samurai_goroh
Editor, Player (53)
Joined: 12/25/2004
Posts: 634
Location: Aguascalientes, Mexico
Well, there's no much I can say than good luck dartht33bagger, I'll be following your WIP :)
I'm the best in the Universe! Remember that!
Posted: 3/25/2008 6:17 PM
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dartht33bagger
Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon
I'm redoing the first track yet again to get a few seconds better. I have some stuff to do today but ill be home later tonight and ill post the final wip of the first level.
Posted: 3/26/2008 1:00 AM
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Saturn
Player (209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Well, for only 86 rerecords and the slower car choice, the 1st version looks pretty good already. But yes, the purple "Fire Stingray" car is easily the best choice in every single course without exceptions. It has the greatest top speed and on top of that a much better corner handling (it doesn't slip out of line in them, even at a very high speed, saving you many frames in every corner in the end. Your 2nd movie was a huge improvement already, so just practice a bit more with the game and the tools, and I'm sure you will get close to perfect times with enough patience. Good luck! Also, check this old F-Zero thread to get some more information: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1518
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
Posted: 3/26/2008 11:53 AM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone
I chose the Fire Stingray in Death Wind. Once it hits a yellow chevron, speed goes to above 900 and slowly declines making it faster.
Posted: 3/27/2008 3:50 AM
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dartht33bagger
Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon
Newest revision of Mute city 1. My run beats mute city in 2'00''33, while saturns beats it in 1'58''17. If this is not as good as it could be somehow I can redo it, but I think this is almost perfect (if not perfect) in the grand prix mode. Newest mute city run-->http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/308692452/F-Zero%20TAS.smv
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:00 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
you have more cars that you could bump into to give you boosts, rather than just one car that can only give you the boost once in TT. I think you should, in theory be able to beat Saturn's time.
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Posted: 3/27/2008 4:21 AM
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dartht33bagger
Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon
Its not possible to get over to the gray fox (ill call him that now) because hes at the far right, which gives the most boost. The only way you can do it is to bump the falcon car, which doesn't give as much speed. Every world record I've seen has been played in practice with the gray fox because he gives the most bump. It is possible to bump into the gray fox twice, which puts you about 30 km faster than in grand prix. SO in Grand prix it takes longer to gain that 30 km back. Grand prix is not the mode of choice because top speed takes a lot longer to achieve. I think that this is about as good as its going to get in grand prix. I may be wrong though, and if anyone can show me a better method of starting in grand prix ill remake the stage. As for right now I think this is pretty good.
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:26 AM
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Twelvepack
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
Really starting to look nice. I'm looking forward to the rest of the game.
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:35 AM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
dartht33bagger wrote:
If this is not as good as it could be somehow I can redo it, but I think this is almost perfect (if not perfect) in the grand prix mode.
I'm no expert, so I'm reluctant to say anything about it, but it looks imperfect. Your car seems to wobble a little on straightaways, and your cornering doesn't look consistent. Sorry I can't be more specific about that... but have you considered using a Lua script, for comparison purposes? Hypothetically, a script could dump a racer's location and speed to a file, which you would then use as a "ghost" while making your own TAS. Thus, you'd be able to immediately spot any errors you make, or advantages gained. It would make your life a lot easier, I think.
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:47 AM
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dartht33bagger
Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon
It does wobble at times because I'm trying to get into a good position for the next turn. As for the turn, some are a bit sharper than others, but most corners are cut as close as they could be. Like I said if its not good enough I can redo it.
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