(Link to video)
Kirby decides to save the planet by climbing a ladder. Do not try at home!

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: lsnes rr2-β21
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Uses game-breaking glitches
  • Achieves credits early

Comments

Glitches that crash the game in a lot of different ways each time you are doing them are usually a sign that really crazy stuff is going on. This video [dead link removed] made me interested in this glitch and I somehow managed to activate a debugger function or something. After a few tries I found out that the main CPU (the game has also the SA1 chip) sometimes runs over the controller registers, which is a good thing if you ask me :D.

Explanation

The reason why the game freaks out when you try to climb a ladder up and down at the same time is because it doesn't expect you to do that. The initial glitch happens in the SA1 processor which indexes a location wrong and jumps to garbage code where it BRKs. Because of the BRK it jumps to location $5FFF which is just before SRAM (starting at $6000). It keeps breaking and filling up SRAM from the end to the start until it overwrites the addresses it is executing and then everything starts. It manages to lead the CPU to the controller registers at $4218 where then the fun begins.
When I say the fun begins I don't actually mean fun, because I now have to deal with two processors and a destroyed RAM. With a lot of trace logging and lua scripting I managed to kinda see the addresses I have to change for example changing the gamemode ($7390) to cutscene (0x0008) or the game chosen ($32EA) to Milky Way Wishes (0x0005). But I had a few problems while in the controller registers.
I start by trying to stay in the controller registers, which turned out to be harder than I thought. Because of the RAM being all destroyed the NMI and IRQ were going to crash once started. I managed to fix the NMI by changing $3099, but then the next interrupt that was going to happen would be IRQ. I "disabled" IRQ by setting the vcounter when it should start to 501, which is never going to happen. Then I had a fine working setup to write 2 bytes per 2 frames so far. I had to change so many addresses that it turned out to be faster to write a small code in RAM that allowed me to write 2 bytes per frame. Then I reset the SA1 processor and set it to a new location in SA1-IRAM, where I wrote a new code for it to execute, because not only RAM was damaged, the stack and direct page register were corrupted too. I changed all values and the last cutscene started.
It was very important to get a good starting state of the CPU when going in controller registers, because else the whole thing movie have failed when I tried to stay in the controller registers. By good starting state I mean the stack, the direct page and the data bank registers were normal (they could be corrupted in CPU and were corrupted in SA1). To get that I delayed a few frames at the start.
To see the code that the controller executed look at this.

Special Thanks to

  • Ilari for helping me out with a lot of SA1 stuff (and of course for lsnes :D)
  • mugg and was0x for giving me a savestate near the end of the game which I really needed

Nach: After some discussions with the authors of the run and software, and some testing, it appears this run depends on various compile time specifics of the emulator. A run, especially of this nature, which is depending on various emulator issues is not acceptable.
This kind of run can probably be redone on a more accurate emulator build, one which emulates proper behavior, and may just need some memory addresses tweaked. But till then, rejecting.

Nach: Replacing with a new run from Masterjun which supposedly is valid this time, and rejudging!
Noxxa: Replaced submission file with a new version with a more accurate rerecord count.
Masterjun: Replaced branch name with a more fitting one.

Masterjun: I'm gonna cancel this TAS because I don't want to have a "cheap" SNES ACE run, which I realized after thinking about it a while. I consider these kind of runs "cheap" because they rely on the game crashing (really executing BRK instructions) and then running over controller registers by accident. The advantage of SNES runs over other consoles is that the SNES has 8 bytes that you can control with controllers, which are relatively many.
Don't expect any more cheap ACE runs by me.
Masterjun: Uncancelling. Ok, I should just stick to creating TASes and submitting them instead of deciding what happens with them here. Though, this doesn't guarantee that this is gonna be accepted, guys. I also changed the branch to "game end glitch".

feos: Accepting to Moons.
Ilari: Publishing...

Noxxa: Reverting acception due to judge dispute.

Nach: Rejudging. Again.

Nach: After reading more documentation than I ever wanted to, it seems this kind of run is possible. Recreating this run on a console would not be straight forward, but it looks like theoretically with some tweaking and enough resets, it just might. Since what occurs visually should be possible, I'll allow this.
Kirby Super Star is made up of a bunch of mini-games, which can be played individually. As more games are completed, additional games are unlocked. This run is interesting in that it goes to play The Great Cave Offensive, and then ends up completing Milkyway Wishes, which is the second to last game which can be unlocked. After the ending is completed, the cart shows that 0% of the game is completed, with no mini-games not even Milkyway Wishes or The Arena unlocked. (The Arena mini-game is unlocked when completing Milklyway Wishes in the normal fashion.)
Therefore, this run gets one ending displayed, what is usually considered by players to be the last ending (The Arena doesn't have a special ending), yet completes nothing, and doesn't show all the appropriate endings. As usual, this kind of run is problematic with its objectives and completions, and I dislike calling it game-end glitch. However it is interesting, and therefore accepting as whatever this branch ends up being called.
Ilari: Processing

Skilled player (1705)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4952
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
Warp wrote:
It just seems odd to me that someone can effectively "hijack" a game completion by submitting it and then cancelling it
1. Make a highly optimized run 2. Submit it 3. Cancel it 4. Have fun improving it. On another related note, has Masterjun commented this on irc or the like? :o
Joined: 7/30/2013
Posts: 79
Sad to see this run getting cancelled, especially after its revival thanks to the emulator author's fix and Masterjun himself fixing the executed code. Both efforts went waste after all. :(
(◕‿◕)
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4137)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
Warp wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
Not sure why you're bringing it up here. Not sure why you're bringing up the license either, as we don't involve the license in judging movies or plagiarism.
Just making a note that cancelling doesn't technically speaking stop the run from being published.
It technically doesn't. In practice, it will never happen.
Warp wrote:
significant amounts of run material has been directly copied without author permission or credit
As I said, by submitting the movie, the author relinquishes his rights to stop other people from using the data in accordance to the license. Other people do not need the author's permission.
And as I said, we don't care if the license means we can do whatever to the movie. Again, this is not about the letter of the law (license in this case), but about respecting the author's wishes. If the author does not wish for the run to be published, signified by cancelling the run, then we will not publish it because it contradicts the author's wishes. That the license allows us to is not relevant. But we won't do it.
Warp wrote:
And my question was not about "what if someone copies big part of the movie without giving credit?"
Your question was about "slightly modifying" the movie, i.e. copying most of it, and stated nothing about credit. I answered both cases about whether the other author gives credit, or whether he does not. In either case, if the author does not grant permission to publish what's (at least mostly) his work, it will not be accepted. If he does grant permission, it can be accepted, but then he may just as well uncancel the previous work already. Bottom line: we do not publish run material if the author does not want it published. This has nothing to do with what the license states, but just how judging, publication and site rules work.
Warp wrote:
It just seems odd to me that someone can effectively "hijack" a game completion by submitting it and then cancelling it, even though the author specifically gave explicit permission to publish it when he submitted, and cannot revoke that permission (according to the very license that he accepted.) If another submission is "too similar" to it, then it may be considered unpublishable on that count (because it uses too much of the original data "without the author's permission", even though you don't need the author's permission.)
I like to be considerate to the submitter's wishes as they are at present, and not at the time of pressing the submit button. People can change their minds. The "hijack" issue can be annoying indeed (for example, there is the notorious Clue run from several years back, halting a Clue publication for quite a few years). However, the solution is not to publish a run when the author has made clear he didn't want it published. That is just disrepectful towards the author. Perhaps a solution would be to allow submissions by other people that tie the cancelled run's record, as long as it can reasonably be figured out that the author at least mostly independently created the run. (Though his would probably be hard to prove). Sorta similar to #3256: p4wn3r's GBC Pokémon: Yellow Version in 01:09.63, except the input file actually is available in this case.
jlun2 wrote:
On another related note, has Masterjun commented this on irc or the like? :o
Yes. A few days ago he told me how he didn't like his run, because he considered it cheap. If you want to know more, you'd probably best just ask him.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3584)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
jlun2 wrote:
1. Make a highly optimized run 2. Submit it 3. Cancel it 4. Have fun improving it
I think we can use some common sense here. We want to respect an author's wishes regarding publication. But if someone is submitting things just to troll, we don't necessary need to extend this courtesy. Also, to make a movie near impossible to improve just to troll, is very HIGH level of effort for a very small annoyance.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Player (99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
jlun2 wrote:
1. Make a highly optimized run 2. Submit it 3. Cancel it 4. Have fun improving it.
You make me want to do it with the SM64DS any% run in the works. That’d be funny.
Experienced player (630)
Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2208
Location: Guatemala
ALAKTORN wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
1. Make a highly optimized run 2. Submit it 3. Cancel it 4. Have fun improving it.
You make me want to do it with the SM64DS any% run in the works. That’d be funny.
No don't do it. Probably on AF but not other day.
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
Eszik
He/Him
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 163
Welcome back. For publication this time?
I problably made mistakes, sorry for my bad English, I'm French :v
Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 269
Wow! That was quick and surprising! Voting yes!
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14858
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [2609] SNES Kirby Super Star "game end glitch" by Masterjun in 00:23.03
Joined: 11/9/2012
Posts: 23
So why is this not in the vault? Masterjun keeps making these very short TAS'es, and while they are important, they are also very boring. They showcase nothing about the game, nor do they even showcase anything about breaking the game. It is just a 30 second run of the level and then it is over. I mean Nach can say that it is interesting, but it effectively the same run as the Kirby's Adventure and Super Mario World end game glitch but with even less content and a less interesting error screen. IT IS NOT TO SAY THAT TECHNICALLY IT IS BAD. People will say it is interesting and I am fine with being wrong on my opinion, but I honestly hope this is the last of the Game End Glitches to get the Moon tier.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2284)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6336
Location: The land down under.
Cyber_Kun wrote:
So why is this not in the vault?
Not everything short means it's boring and has to go directly to the vault. Even though out of the fastest 10 only 4 of them are not in vault. This is all down to the voter's opinion. 3 No | 79 Yes | 1 Meh Also considering everyone's vote so far 5.4 Avg on Entertainment makes it a vault score, but the overall average keeps it out of vault. The TAS is more technically impressive than completely entertaining. I'll agree that it does have it's limit but seeing what game gets broken next interests me. But hey, that's my opinion. Also don't point it fully at Masterjun. I might be wrong but this: [2100] NES Battletoads "game end glitch" by TheZlomuS & DyLaX in 01:02.68 Was the first "game end glitch" and how that has been improved and became more broken in terms of the background music is crazy (MESH's one). This also half answers your VVVVVV statement/question (maybe, idk).
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4137)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
Spikestuff wrote:
Also considering everyone's vote so far 5.4 Avg on Entertainment makes it a vault score, but the overall average keeps it out of vault.
Overall average doesn't matter for vault/moon tier. Only the entertainment rate matters. Anyway, these kind of runs will continue to go to moon tier as long as the majority of people finds them (apparently) entertaining. Personally I agree that the novelty has run off and they are just simply boring to watch now, but it seems for a lot of people that's not (yet) the case.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2284)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6336
Location: The land down under.
Mothrayas wrote:
Overall average doesn't matter for vault/moon tier. Only the entertainment rate matters.
Oh I thought it was overall, okay thanks for clarification.
Mothrayas wrote:
Anyway, these kind of runs will continue to go to moon tier as long as the majority of people finds them (apparently) entertaining.
Would this TAS be considered as that "special" case. Since it went from Moon to Vault as it was originally intended to go after it was published? It was a TAS when accepted 68% on YES votes* and it was stated by others that it should Vault then somehow Mooned then put to Vault later. So, in near future we would see Yes votes for these "game end glitches" but overall it may actually end up in the Vault. *Edit: Clarifying: This is referring to feos' comment on the TAS I link out towards and how he accepts it. "feos: domination of posts about how good this movie is .... Votes are about the same (68% support). Accepting to Moons."
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4137)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
Spikestuff wrote:
Would this TAS be considered as that "special" case. Since it went from Moon to Vault as it was originally intended to go after it was published? It was a TAS when accepted 68% on YES votes and it was stated by others that it should Vault then somehow Mooned then put to Vault later.
That case was more of an error in my mind - it should never have been put to Moons in the first place.
Spikestuff wrote:
So, in near future we would see Yes votes for these "game end glitches" but overall it may actually end up in the Vault.
When I judge which tier to put a run in, I don't necessarily look at the vote percentages, but rather, anticipate how its entertainment rating will pan out. Had I judged Tekken 3, I would have put it in the Vault regardless of the 68% yes votes because I knew in advance its entertainment rating would end up below average regardless of the votes. (So far, for runs I have judged and applied this methodology to, it hasn't failed me yet.) However, "game end glitch" runs are fairly new, and I don't have a good enough grasp to anticipate how the entertainment rating for these runs would end up. (Some of these runs' ratings have surprised me.) I don't think the other judges can at this point in time fully predict how the ratings pan out either. However, as for now, Moons generally seems a safer bet, as it is supported by the vote counts (which are extremely high compared to the actual entertainment ratings), and entertainment feedback, while between mediocre and okay-ish, is not outright terrible. Of course, the other judges have their own ideas and methodologies on this matter. Most of these runs were judged by feos and Nach, and each have their own ideas as to what constitutes publishing to moon tier and what not.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Skilled player (1705)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4952
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
Therefore, this run gets one ending displayed, what is usually considered by players to be the last ending (The Arena doesn't have a special ending), yet completes nothing, and doesn't show all the appropriate endings. As usual, this kind of run is problematic with its objectives and completions, and I dislike calling it game-end glitch. However it is interesting, and therefore accepting as whatever this branch ends up being called.
Well, since this is arbitrary code execution, can the input be extended for a frame or 2 to make it unlock everything?
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3584)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
Spikestuff wrote:
68% on YES votes
From my experience, the number of votes is a better indicator than % Yes votes as to how a movie will do post-publication in terms of ratings.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Cyber_Kun wrote:
So why is this not in the vault?
I agree with you it's not very entertaining, however, I used these two criteria to put it into moons: 1) For a movie under 30 seconds, it's entertaining enough. 2) A significant amount of people said they were entertained. I generally put something in the vault if I find that interest in what is going on is lost very quickly, and users want to turn off the video or skip through, or a lot of people say they were bored by it.
jlun2 wrote:
Therefore, this run gets one ending displayed, what is usually considered by players to be the last ending (The Arena doesn't have a special ending), yet completes nothing, and doesn't show all the appropriate endings. As usual, this kind of run is problematic with its objectives and completions, and I dislike calling it game-end glitch. However it is interesting, and therefore accepting as whatever this branch ends up being called.
Well, since this is arbitrary code execution, can the input be extended for a frame or 2 to make it unlock everything?
Unlike most other games, this is a collection of games. So it becomes less clear what it means to complete it. If we define completion as reaching the credits scene, then one needs to get half a dozen credit screens to complete all of KSS, which is more than a moment's worth of additional input. If we are looking towards content unlocked, then we are looking for a 100% appearing on the menu. As is, this run doesn't show all the credits, nor does it get a completion percentage. I personally think this is a demo showing off a glitch that can get some credits to roll, nothing more. It's why I dislike the term game-end glitch, it's misleading into making you think it completed something.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Banned User
Joined: 5/27/2019
Posts: 136
Location: Gensokyo
Does the Great Cave Offensive image on a saved file I mean l kirby miner sees something from a treasure. Or the file is corrupted even if the game doesn't appear to crash?
i think i got banned again... I don't know if I can do TASing at the moment. May in summer or something? Soon-ish... Aka. Chuterix, formerly ChutacoackoTAS (did I even address that name?) Check out my RTA's and TASes here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6JXd3XDSkJqREaLQDYlDg P.S. I have school on weekdays unless break or something. So I will not read messages until the weekends or until further notice.