Topic by GuanoBowl

Posted: 1/10/2008 3:59 AM

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GuanoBowl

Former player

Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico

dartht33bagger wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UxxTQvZ6b4&feature=related You guys seen this? This should allow you to skip the deku tree all together, which would be good for a tas. Sorry if you've already seen it, but i found it a few minutes ago and wanted to put it up just in case.

I think they said you need Slingshot from the Deku Tree. Dunno tho

Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.

Posted: 1/10/2008 4:31 AM

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dartht33bagger

Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon

Sorry wrong one, this is the one i ment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdeOE-bbuF8&feature=related Says you only need shield and sword.

Posted: 1/10/2008 6:31 AM

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Twelvepack

Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO

I could have sworn that was linked a fwe pages back, and the verdict was that it wouldnt help because there was still no know way to become an adult without the emerald?

Has never colored a dinosaur.

Posted: 1/10/2008 3:17 PM

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Johannes

Former player

Joined: 12/1/2007
Posts: 425

Swordless Link wrote:

I've finally finished the Deku Tree. In total, I'm 28.7 seconds faster than Comicalflop/Guano. Before you watch, a few notes... * I tried the ladder zip. I can't get it to work, as can nobody, and I don't care enough to spend hours trying to replicate it. * Climbing all the way up the vine was faster than getting hit by the skulltula. * I hit the skulltula with the sword because it also boosted Link forwards quite a bit, which was ultimately faster. * On hitting the web, rather than doing a small jump off of it, I just let him fall, then guided him onto the skulltula on the vine. This was 3 frames faster than doing a small jump. * I used a new route for getting to the scrub room. Ended up being 1.5 seconds faster. * It's also faster to not slash the sword so you bounce off the wall. It's faster to just let him fall in normally and climb onto land. * I killed the scrubs with different nuts from what are normally used. Not only does it look ten times cooler, but it's considerably faster too. With that said, here's the m64: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1013133397/OoT%20SL%20Deku%20Tree.m64 I've tested it from the start, and it's in sync, provided you use the same plugins that I did. I've encoded the tree section of the run for those of us who can't run mupen or experience a desynch for some reason. I've also got a video of my rupee route, which I haven't posted here before, so here are both of them. Rupee route: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mTims1T-sW8 Deku Tree: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AcYPTBLRnm8 I haven't included stuff like getting from the store to the tree because it's quite dull.

Desynced when he got the sword >.> Meh, didn't see the Youtube links.

SM64.org

Posted: 1/10/2008 10:46 PM

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Acryte

Joined: 1/10/2006
Posts: 144
Location: Oregon

Swordless, it looks good, but I think you can save 1 or 2 more seconds by falling farther before you enter or reenter the water. The room should already be loaded so you can probably fall all the way down to the water in the room below, or much closer probably.

Wisdom; Power; Courage.

Posted: 1/11/2008 12:14 AM

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dartht33bagger

Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon

Twelvepack wrote:

I could have sworn that was linked a fwe pages back, and the verdict was that it wouldnt help because there was still no know way to become an adult without the emerald?

Didn't know if that mattered or not since im newer to OOT TAS's, but i thought if you could get the ocarina of time without getting the emeralds it would work good.

Posted: 1/11/2008 8:27 AM
(Edited: 1/11/2008 11:04 PM)

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SwordlessLink

Active player (490)

Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682

Acryte: I'd still have to fall the same distance ultimately, so it wouldn't matter. EDIT: Also, the scrub room doesn't load until you're in the tunnel thing anyway...

Posted: 1/11/2008 12:53 PM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Most people already know about forward backwalking, but did you know you can get pretty much any camera angle you want. Incase your wondering it does come at a cost of about 6 frames for both backwalking and side steping. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1skpnYAFZ5g Although there is one cool use for it, where it could almost certainly be used. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Brbe5AOyW1o

Posted: 1/11/2008 10:03 PM

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Titus_Kwok

Joined: 4/30/2006
Posts: 480
Location: the secret cow level

AKA wrote:

Although there is one cool use for it, where it could almost certainly be used. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Brbe5AOyW1o

That's the coolest thing I've seen all day.

Posted: 1/11/2008 11:51 PM

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TheFrigz

Joined: 2/9/2006
Posts: 124

Agreed, that was pretty sweet.

Posted: 1/12/2008 1:22 AM

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theenglishman

Active player (441)

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada

Awesome work Swordless. The v2 run just might come out before Metal Gear Solid 4 does =P Also, just to add my own opinion on forward backwalking: I think sacrificing six frames per backwalk is more than worth it to make the traveling segments more watchable. That's just me.

My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(

Posted: 1/12/2008 5:43 AM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

I still think the idea of wasting frames for aesthetics in a speed-oriented movie is questionable. It's so subjective anyway. Personally, I find it more impressive watching backwards supersliding, due to the viewer's suspense of not knowing where the run is headed next. But will everyone agree with me? With the fastest run, there is no debate because time is always quantifiable, whereas aesthetics isn't. If you drop six frames every here and there, you're going to end up dropping whole seconds and possibly minutes by the end of the run. This wouldn't be an "aims for fastest time" run anymore.

Posted: 1/12/2008 7:13 AM

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Dwedit

He/Him

Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 692
Location: Chicago

So you like low-life beeping, huh...

Posted: 1/12/2008 8:28 AM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

Dwedit wrote:

So you like low-life beeping, huh...

I don't mind it that much. If you do, you can always mute the sound.

Posted: 1/12/2008 9:22 AM

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YautjaElder

Joined: 3/29/2006
Posts: 273
Location: Sweden

I don't hear low life beeping, seriously. My ears have probably learned to filter it away or something.

Posted: 1/12/2008 11:22 AM

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Cpadolf

Skilled player (1431)

Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden

In longer backwalking/sidestepping segments I definetely think it is worth sacrificing 6 frames for higher watchabillity, loosing 30 seconds in a 1:30+ run is nothing if the difference is big. (which IMO it is)

Agare Bagare Kopparslagare

Posted: 1/12/2008 1:23 PM

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SwordlessLink

Active player (490)

Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682

It would only be used when I HAVE to wait, like for the peahat to get into position or something.

Posted: 1/12/2008 7:49 PM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

Cpadolf wrote:

In longer backwalking/sidestepping segments I definetely think it is worth sacrificing 6 frames for higher watchabillity, loosing 30 seconds in a 1:30+ run is nothing if the difference is big. (which IMO it is)

The important point is that not everybody will agree doing so provides for "better watchability." I, for one, think it does quite the contrary. Also, think about how much hard work has been done to squeeze out every possible frame to supersede Guano's run in comparable sections. Isn't intentionally wasting frames kind of counterproductive?

Swordless Link wrote:

It would only be used when I HAVE to wait, like for the peahat to get into position or something.

Fair enough.

Posted: 1/12/2008 8:21 PM

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SwordlessLink

Active player (490)

Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682

I generally agree with you on the frame-perfect thing, mwl, but I do think that different camera angles while side hopping could make the run better to watch in some places. I'd be reluctant to do it in any place where I didn't already have to wait, though, but if it would have a significant effect on the run's entertainment value, I might do it now and again. Although, I think it's entertaining enough as it is, for the most part, with the normal camera angles. So unless persuaded otherwise, I'm only going to do it when I have time to spare.

Posted: 1/12/2008 8:28 PM

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ShadowWraith

Joined: 8/7/2006
Posts: 344

Considering one of the largest complaints about Guano's TAS was that backwalking was used everywhere and meant you couldn't see where Link was going, I think a 6 frame tradeoff for entertainment value isn't really that big of a deal. That's probably just me, but I'd prefer to see where Link is going, rather than where he just came from. There isn't really a big surprise as to where he's going either if you just look at the minimap while he's moving, which I pretty much ended up doing watching the TAS because the backwalking sections were pretty dull to me.

Posted: 1/12/2008 9:42 PM

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Kuwaga

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248

I think it isn't as big of a problem as it was before. People who didn't know the game well also didn't know that backwards walking was faster. They probably thought it was just used to be funny, in some geeky way. And to them it wasn't. Now, that won't happen with side hopping because it also looks faster and you see at least a bit of where Link is heading to. And I'd love to see some very unusual camera angles while super sliding. ^^

Posted: 1/12/2008 10:22 PM

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GuanoBowl

Former player

Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico

Getting my processor on Monday. Will update then.

Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.

Posted: 1/12/2008 10:34 PM

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mr_roberts_z

Former player

Joined: 7/21/2006
Posts: 747
Location: Northern Hemisphere

GuanoBowl wrote:

Getting my processor on Monday. Will update then.

Are you planning on making your own run of the game? If so, I think Swordless Link has already started one...

Super Mario 64 TASes and stuff.

Posted: 1/12/2008 10:38 PM

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Cpadolf

Skilled player (1431)

Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden

So sidehopping is faster than backwalking? I haven't looked in this thread since ever so I don't know much about that. Anyway, if it is faster then how much and why has it not been discovered until now? (to me testing diferent traveling methods first is the obvious thing to do before making a TAS of a game like this but maybe it is more complicated than that)

Agare Bagare Kopparslagare

Posted: 1/12/2008 10:39 PM

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SwordlessLink

Active player (490)

Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682

It used to be assumed that side hopping was only faster on hills, for some reason. That's why it was never fully used until my run.