Topic by Synx

Posted: 10/3/2011 1:34 PM

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Synx

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496

no reason to get all deffensive. I am simply stating the obvious.

Posted: 10/3/2011 1:48 PM

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ShadowWraith

Joined: 8/7/2006
Posts: 344

I'm not being defensive. I'm challenging your statement because it's ludicrous. Your post is not 'stating the obvious'. If anything, it's 'stating nonsensical hyperbole'.

Posted: 10/3/2011 3:44 PM

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Pasky13

Former player

Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland

Can we go back to OOT please? I'm eager to see more improvements!

I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton

Posted: 10/4/2011 10:22 AM

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Synx

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496

ShadowWraith wrote:

I'm not being defensive. I'm challenging your statement because it's ludicrous. Your post is not 'stating the obvious'. If anything, it's 'stating nonsensical hyperbole'.

Ok, I will simplify it further so you will understand. The rules are in the way of some of the improvements possible for OoT. There are 2 major things. 1 - Using the J room for OoT cuts of many minuts, all of which are from boring cutscenes. This is not allowed with the current rules 2 - SL uses an emulator which allows him to emulate turning off and on the N64. This is huge since it makes u warp to a certain point. Again the rules do not allow this. My point again, is that these rules would hinder this (and maybe other runs) from getting published here.

Posted: 10/4/2011 10:32 AM
(Edited: 10/4/2011 10:35 AM)

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ShadowWraith

Joined: 8/7/2006
Posts: 344

... Let me put it in a way you will understand. Creating runs that don't conform to the sites rules will hinder those runs from being published on the site. If a TASer creates a run that doesn't conform to the rules, while knowing full well that the run does not conform to the rules, then the TASer should be well aware that his run will most likely not be published here. That's not the rules failing. This also goes for silly little fanboys populating the forums that may or may not have a rudimentary grasp of what common sense is.

Posted: 10/4/2011 10:34 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Synx wrote:

1 - Using the J room for OoT cuts of many minuts, all of which are from boring cutscenes. This is not allowed with the current rules

This is not an improvement. This is shortening the video time by the virtue of having a ROM with conveniently shorter language. Same can be achieved by pressing tab key when watching in an emulator or arrow keys in a video player. If you don't like the boring cutscenes, blame the game or find ways to skip them entirely, none of this stupid nonsense.

Synx wrote:

2 - SL uses an emulator which allows him to emulate turning off and on the N64. This is huge since it makes u warp to a certain point. Again the rules do not allow this.

If this isn't possible on a console with the same input being fed to it even theoretically, then damn right they don't. The site has always been against emulator-only tricks and glitches, because they're exploiting emulator shortcomings, not the game's.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/4/2011 11:10 AM

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Synx

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496

Responding to Shadow first. Now you are just being childlish by copying my post and turning the arguments around. Which does not work because this site is made for the runs, not the other way arround. So the runs are an attempt at getting the fastest time possible. And this site aims to publish these runs. But in this case the rules are in the way. I suspect you are just trolling at this point, since this should be pretty clear by now. Moozooh: Alltough I actually do partly agree with your first point, I still do find it to be an improvement. The part of the TAS that is being shortned here is the speed at which text (that at this point serves no purpose) pops up and disappears from the screen. When the J rom solves this problem it seems naturall to choose that rom. The second part here seems to be a missunderstanding. What SL is doing is resetting the game. But since it is thus far not possible with the emulator to use the "reset-button" he is instead using a function emulating shutting off power to the N64 and then providing it again afterwards. He explained this earlier in this thread himself. And as you can imagine the same thing would be possible on the actuall console yielding the exact same result.

Posted: 10/4/2011 11:23 AM

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ShadowWraith

Joined: 8/7/2006
Posts: 344

Synx: I'll just say you're wrong and leave it at that. The thread is derailed enough as it is. If you think the rules should change, make a separate thread for it.

Posted: 10/4/2011 1:47 PM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

moozooh wrote:

If this isn't possible on a console with the same input being fed to it even theoretically, then damn right they don't. The site has always been against emulator-only tricks and glitches, because they're exploiting emulator shortcomings, not the game's.

This isn't an emulator-only issue. This is more an issue of a feature that the console can do (OoT real time runs can use restarting and segmenting to do warps) but that here is being done improperly. The problem, which I've stated numerous times, is that the version of Mupen that Swordless is using does have a record-reset feature, but the command for that is done improperly. Rather than reset the ROM (which all other emulators do) the emulator itself is reset.

☣ Homepage ☣ Retired

Posted: 10/4/2011 2:54 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

I see, thanks for the explanation. It seems that year after year, Mupen proudly carries forth the glory of the saddest piece of software to be used on TASVideos. Of all things that could change, this is by far the most reluctant. :\ Putting that aside, what exactly are the differences between doing a proper soft-reset and an emulator reset from the game's standpoint? I'd imagine that it reinitializes the N64's RAM completely, so some variables are reset to default values, correct?

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/4/2011 4:55 PM

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SwordlessLink

Active player (490)

Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682

Thanks for the support, Synx. Synx: I'll just say you're wrong and leave it at that. The thread is derailed enough as it is. If you think the rules should change, make a separate thread for it. I think I'm gonna do this later, actually. I don't necessarily wanna withhold the run from the site (honestly, it will get way more traffic on my own YouTube channel than here anyway) but I see my run as an ample opportunity to get a silly rule (at least in regards to OoT) changed, so I think now is a good time to bring it up.

Posted: 10/4/2011 9:09 PM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Your run can still be obseleted by a slower U run if its faster when text speed is taken into consideration. You should state in your submission how much time was saved because of that advantage.

Posted: 10/5/2011 7:49 AM

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Phallosvogel

Joined: 1/3/2006
Posts: 334

Synx wrote:

Responding to Shadow first. Now you are just being childlish by copying my post and turning the arguments around. Which does not work because this site is made for the runs, not the other way arround. So the runs are an attempt at getting the fastest time possible. And this site aims to publish these runs. But in this case the rules are in the way. I suspect you are just trolling at this point, since this should be pretty clear by now.

Posted: 10/5/2011 8:54 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Image macros suck, didn't you know?

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/5/2011 1:22 PM

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Pasky13

Former player

Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland

Still waiting to get back on topic...

I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton

Posted: 10/5/2011 4:41 PM

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Synx

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496

Pasky13 wrote:

Still waiting to get back on topic...

Last I heard, there was 2 runs being worked on for OoT atm. Bloob is working on an improvement for his any% TAS. SL is working on an all temple TAS. Both using the J-rom. In addition to that MrGrunz was at least considering to start a low% TAS

Posted: 10/5/2011 5:22 PM

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SwordlessLink

Active player (490)

Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682

Bloob is working on an improvement for his any% TAS. I can confirm that this is no longer happening, at least not for the moment. If Bloob hasn't improved it by the time I'm done with my all temples run, I'll probably take it up myself. And of course, the J ROM will still be used.

Posted: 10/18/2011 10:51 PM

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Drakodan

Player (48)

Joined: 10/18/2011
Posts: 45

First time posting here, I'm a longtime lurker but registered just now to ask this since I'm intrigued by the possibility, even though I'm prepared to believe this was thought of and debunked AGES ago: Is the Reverse Bottle Adventure to get the medallions really necessary? If all its for is to get the bridge to Ganon's Castle to appear, I don't see why you can't just bomb hover over there. I know you still need the Light Arrows to beat Ganondorf/Ganon, but can't you just hex-edit them? I eagerly await a response explaining why this will not work.

Posted: 10/18/2011 10:56 PM

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CosmoZSR

Joined: 11/2/2009
Posts: 44
Location: Chicago, IL

What does that mean, hex-edit them? You can't just outright cheat

Posted: 10/18/2011 11:27 PM

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Drakodan

Player (48)

Joined: 10/18/2011
Posts: 45

http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/N64/ZeldaOcarinaOfTime.html#RbaReverseBottleAdventure Reverse Bottle Adventure, overwriting binary values to replace items in your inventory. Hex-edit may have been a bad term to use, sorry. I guess my question is simply: What makes it necessary to edit in all the medallions when you could just use bombs to get over the gap? I can only assume that there must be something you NEED them for, and my best guess is the cutscene where Zelda gives you the Light Arrows and is kidnapped. I'm just waiting for a confirmation on this.

Posted: 10/19/2011 3:22 AM

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RattleMan

Player (66)

Joined: 5/5/2007
Posts: 65

Drakodan wrote:

http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/N64/ZeldaOcarinaOfTime.html#RbaReverseBottleAdventure Reverse Bottle Adventure, overwriting binary values to replace items in your inventory. Hex-edit may have been a bad term to use, sorry. I guess my question is simply: What makes it necessary to edit in all the medallions when you could just use bombs to get over the gap? I can only assume that there must be something you NEED them for, and my best guess is the cutscene where Zelda gives you the Light Arrows and is kidnapped. I'm just waiting for a confirmation on this.

Yes, the Light Arrow cutscene will only play once you have the Shadow and Spirit Medallions, so it's necessary to RBA them.

Posted: 10/19/2011 10:28 AM

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Slowking

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193

@Drakodan RBA can't reach the values to directly write the light arrows into your menu. Otherwise we would do it. ;) You can BA light arrows to B, but then you need hover boots to get into ganons castle, unlock going back in time by beating the forest temple, etc.. We thought about a route that would do that. It might be faster on the U version. It certainly isn't on J.

Posted: 10/19/2011 11:17 AM

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Synx

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496

Slowking wrote:

@Drakodan RBA can't reach the values to directly write the light arrows into your menu. Otherwise we would do it. ;) You can BA light arrows to B, but then you need hover boots to get into ganons castle, unlock going back in time by beating the forest temple, etc.. We thought about a route that would do that. It might be faster on the U version. It certainly isn't on J.

Just out of curiosity, how would that route look?

Posted: 10/19/2011 12:17 PM

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