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Posted: 11/29/2006 7:47 PM
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mr_roberts_z
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Joined: 7/21/2006
Posts: 747
Location: Northern Hemisphere
Here's how I see it: I use whatever necessary to skip the door opening sequences. I still only go through doors only when I'd usually be allowed to (when nromally playing). I see that as a combination of how the game-makers intended the game to be played, as well as minimizing the time of the run... Does that sound fair?
Super Mario 64 TASes and stuff.
Posted: 11/29/2006 8:56 PM
(Edited: 11/30/2006 12:14 AM)
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
Ok here we go, enter teh duck run. As you can see it's blazingly entertaining thus far, with a few close calls (Especially the chain chomp)! I have ended it where I did so far because I am at impasse; the current obstacle can't seem to be crawled over. So I have too options, jump up it (I have already used the jump button more than I had planned/hoped to) or run up it. Yes I know this is a crawl run, but for this part running is just so must faster, so I figure I might just use running in this one spot because it saves time, and then never use it again. What do you guys think, after all it's only once? Edit: Updated! Now with 1 star! And a lot more holding Z!
Posted: 11/29/2006 9:12 PM
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Mitjitsu
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Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Cool, whats the estimated finishing time?
Posted: 11/29/2006 9:14 PM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
Lets see, I would say average of 7 minutes per Star, 120 stars. ~14 hours?
Posted: 11/29/2006 9:33 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
14 hours = maybe crawl run not so hot an idea...
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Posted: 11/29/2006 9:34 PM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
Oh, but you can imagine how glorious TTC will be?
Posted: 11/29/2006 10:19 PM
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spockybiemmichab
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
More than 26,000 rerecords? Even in fast-forward Mario is as fast as a turtle. ;) But please continue, if you have the patience ;)
Posted: 11/29/2006 10:26 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
This discussion makes me realize that there may not be as much of a point to the 70 star run as I first thought. I don't think Mario 64 can be compared to the "glitch, any, 100%" zelda runs either. We don't have a single 100% zelda run here, and my guess is that it's because extra item collection in Zelda has never been a huge focus as compared to sequence breaking and getting through rooms and dungeouns quickly. Similarly, in Mario 64 you can beat the game, and then you can collect all the remaining stars. It just so happens that instead of 70 being that first number, it's been reduced to 16. So I see the 16-star run as the any% run, not the glitched run, because even though it uses glitches, it's not making the game unrecognizable.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 11/29/2006 11:34 PM
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Comicalflop
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Yes, the full glitched run would be the theoretical 0 ir 1 star that is not quite possible yet, though potential thanks to the newly discovered glitches in 120 and 16. I was in support for the 70 run before, but now I'm not so sure. I'm not trying to disuade, but I'm seeing JXQ's point of view
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Posted: 11/29/2006 11:37 PM
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mr_roberts_z
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Joined: 7/21/2006
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Location: Northern Hemisphere
Well, I think I'll make it anyway, but maybe not submit it.
Super Mario 64 TASes and stuff.
Posted: 11/30/2006 12:03 AM
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Mitjitsu
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I hate Nintendo although this would save time in a 120 star run, but for a few frames I thought I found something really worthwhile but as you could probally guess the precision required is unreal.
Posted: 11/30/2006 12:11 AM
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laughing_gas
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Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
The cannon doesn't actually "exist" until you get the bobomb to open it.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 11/30/2006 12:15 AM
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Mitjitsu
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laughing_gas wrote:
The cannon doesn't actually "exist" until you get the bobomb to open it.
It would still save time to do that once the cannon is opened.
Posted: 11/30/2006 12:17 AM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
Ok, i've updated the link in that old post (on the last page) containing an update! There is alot less letting go of Z now, no more regular jumps, joy! Also takes a better route up the mountain. I HAD to use two double jumps to get into the second warp area. While crawling Mario is too short to climb over the lip, and turning around while climbing takes space so you are too far away to jump into it. Also I was forced to use backflips for the boss guy. While crawling you are fast enough to run away, but not fast enough to get behind him. The battle can be improved some, i'll do it later.
Posted: 11/30/2006 12:22 AM
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JXQ
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To be clear, I don't want to disuade Mr. Robert Z from making the run either; if he enjoys it then by all means, have at it. Just giving my (recently changing) opinion.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 11/30/2006 1:06 AM
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captainobvious
Joined: 7/1/2005
Posts: 56
Location: Central Pennsylvania, USA
Perhaps 70-star was originally meant to be a "Perfect Speedrun" under "normal" circumstances. That is, if the original speedrunners had perfected their routes and techniques, this would be the result. However, 70-Stars has been obsoleted by the 16-star technique. So a 70-Star run would be mostly nostalgic of the days when SMB64 records were measured with hours. As for my opinion of how the run should be made, I would get 70 stars as fast as possible* and then run up the infinite staircase normally, just to emphasize getting 70 Stars. Preferably not take BLJ-warps anywhere: they seem too frame-perfect. And if you BLJ, why not at the end? Personally I am not particularly keen on seeing this movie when similar movies (120star, 16star) have already been made. HOWEVER... working on the game is bound to reveal new glitches/techniques, so perhaps you should work on it.... *"...as fast as possible..." Without glitches would be more nostalgic; more like the programmers intended. But how many glitches wouldn't be allowed? If one, why not another? But if all glitches are allowed, it would remove a lot of the nostalgia (Nintendo hadn't imagined the BackwardLongJumpWarp).
That's what she said!
Posted: 11/30/2006 1:58 AM
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mr_roberts_z
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Joined: 7/21/2006
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Location: Northern Hemisphere
Well, I decided. I'm gonna do the run, using whatever glitches make the run the fastest. I will go into the doors in the order of how I can normally get in them, but glitch through them as much as possible, simply to avoid the opening sequence. After the run is done, I'll submit it, but won't be surprised or upset if it's rejected. In the meantime, I'll work on the run, and give normal updates and .m64 files, just like FODA and AKA did. Sound good?
Super Mario 64 TASes and stuff.
Posted: 11/30/2006 2:23 AM
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anubis
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 138
Definitely submit it - even if it does get rejected it's nice to have a permanent host of the m64 where people who care can find it. Do whatever it is you want - better runs are made when you are doing what you want to do with it, even if it makes it less likely to be published - 70 star still has its fun.
Posted: 11/30/2006 2:25 AM
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laughing_gas
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Location: boot_camp
I think you should use anything to get up to 70 stars , but open the 70 star door normally.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 11/30/2006 2:27 AM
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kwinse
Joined: 5/13/2006
Posts: 283
Good luck mr_robert_z, hope to see some nice work from you as soon as you feel it's ready for release. :) EDIT: The 70 star door is opened normally, it has no spinning star opening sequence. All that really happens once you get 70 stars is that you get no message when going up to that door and that you can walk up to Bowser 3 unimpeded by "neverending" stairs.
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
Posted: 11/30/2006 2:33 AM
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mr_roberts_z
Former player
Joined: 7/21/2006
Posts: 747
Location: Northern Hemisphere
Yep... The first thing I'm gonna do is start over, because I see why the first star was 10 frames slower than FODA. Anyway, thanks for the agreement so far, it gives me encouragement. :)
Super Mario 64 TASes and stuff.
Posted: 11/30/2006 2:59 AM
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BoltR
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Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
Err, this is in effect the same thing as that run the guy wanted to make in ALttP where he was going to use the exploration glitch to get all the pendants and then going to the end of the game, rather than just walking there with the glitch. I don't see how people thought that was a dumb idea and this is a good one...
Posted: 11/30/2006 3:46 AM
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laughing_gas
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Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
I only know of one major glitch in that alttp, and I thought it would be a good idea for the run since it doesn't require the Up+Down input that only an emulator could provide.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 11/30/2006 5:50 AM
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Twelvepack
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
As far as Im concerned, as long as you are still abusing BLJ, there is no significance to a 70 star run. Why not 60? or 85? the only point to getting 70 is to get to bowser in the sky without glitching.
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Posted: 11/30/2006 5:52 AM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
BoltR you are awesome. You should talk to the bob-omb, and canon to the mountain. (use the first canon to go to the second, and the second to get close to the warp point.) I'm not sure why the hell I'm suggesting an improvement of this but I laughed all the way through and support its completion (16 star plz)
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