Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
I’m still not sold on the fact that:
Spikestuff wrote:
It's Right, Right + 1 + 4 (Right, Right + Square + Circle) (While Moving)
is the fastest method to do the move. Has anyone tried contacting the Tekken community?
I'm very interested in if you can think of any way to do f,F+1+4 in less than two frames.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I'm very interested in if you can think of any way to do f,F+1+4 in less than two frames.
I thought he was doing it in 3 frames. Also, he’s doing a dash together with the move, and that doesn’t look like something that should be necessary to do. If it were possible to bypass the dash and just do the move, that’d be tons faster.
Also I’m just saying to contact some Tekken pros. Doing any TAS without contacting the pro community of the game is fucking stupid, doesn’t matter if you’ve perfected it already.
I'm very interested in if you can think of any way to do f,F+1+4 in less than two frames.
I thought he was doing it in 3 frames. Also, he’s doing a dash together with the move, and that doesn’t look like something that should be necessary to do. If it were possible to bypass the dash and just do the move, that’d be tons faster.
Also I’m just saying to contact some Tekken pros. Doing any TAS without contacting the pro community of the game is fucking stupid, doesn’t matter if you’ve perfected it already.
ALAKTORN wrote:
If it were possible to bypass the dash and just do the move
Interesting point. How do we go about just doing it? Any improvements are welcome, though I'd recommend touching the game first :)
I thought he was doing it in 3 frames. Also, he’s doing a dash together with the move, and that doesn’t look like something that should be necessary to do. If it were possible to bypass the dash and just do the move, that’d be tons faster.
Just a question, have you actually played this game? Because it would seem like Spikestuff would have tested that, considering how he's TASed it multiple times.
ALAKTORN wrote:
Also I’m just saying to contact some Tekken pros. Doing any TAS without contacting the pro community of the game is fucking stupid, doesn’t matter if you’ve perfected it already.
Depends on the game. For most, you can just watch a speedrun of it and figure it out yourself. It's how I discovered nearly every trick in Shantae for example.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
The improvement doesn’t need to come from me, a Tekken pro would be able to verify whether the TAS is optimal or not within 2 seconds and 1 word. I’d just like to hear the word of a pro.
The improvement doesn’t need to come from me, a Tekken pro would be able to verify whether the TAS is optimal or not within 2 seconds and 1 word. I’d just like to hear the word of a pro.
You want a Tekken pro to check a 2-3 frame TAS only strategy?
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
I'm very interested in if you can think of any way to do f,F+1+4 in less than two frames.
I thought he was doing it in 3 frames. Also, he’s doing a dash together with the move, and that doesn’t look like something that should be necessary to do. If it were possible to bypass the dash and just do the move, that’d be tons faster.
Also I’m just saying to contact some Tekken pros. Doing any TAS without contacting the pro community of the game is fucking stupid, doesn’t matter if you’ve perfected it already.
I don't think you know what's actually going on. The move is Spinning Harakiri, the "dash" is a part of the move and the move is executed immediately when the round starts. There is literally no possible way to "bypass the dash" to be "tons faster".
Also, of any things that Tekken 3 pros would know about, I don't think knowing how to execute a joke move command in less than 2 frames of input would be one of them.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I don't think you know what's actually going on. The move is Spinning Harakiri, the "dash" is a part of the move and the move is executed immediately when the round starts. There is literally no possible way to "bypass the dash" to be "tons faster".
No, I don’t know what’s going on. I don’t think what you’re saying is correct either, though. To me it looks like the move requires a dash to be executed, that’s much different from saying “the dash is part of the move”. It looks like you dash, then you can decide whether or not to do the move. It would require someone who knows anything about the game unlike us to know if it’s possible to bypass the dash.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
No, I don’t know what’s going on. I don’t think what you’re saying is correct either, though. To me it looks like the move requires a dash to be executed, that’s much different from saying “the dash is part of the move”. It looks like you dash, then you can decide whether or not to do the move. It would require someone who knows anything about the game unlike us to know if it’s possible to bypass the dash.
Your argument is very unconvincing.
Try, you know, actually playing the game, or something like that. This sort of conjecture is just unhelpful. You're just making things up out of nowhere.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Try, you know, actually playing the game, or something like that. This sort of conjecture is just unhelpful.
Show me a Yoshimitsu dash if you want to prove me wrong, then. If the animation is the same, what I said is correct.
The guy who TASed the game knows very little about it. Pro players in the fighting game community know everything about frame data and glitches, so they would know infinitely better than us if it were possible to bypass the dash or not.
The guy who TASed the game knows very little about it.
ALAKTORN wrote:
The guy who TASed the game knows very little about it.
Are you serious? Like, are you really being serious right now? The guy who's TASing the game, finding frameperfect tricks, including a trick that requires a 2-3 frame window, a guy who has already TASed this game before, knows nothing about the game?
Stop pretending you understand this game. It's very clear that you have no idea what you're talking about, and yet you continue to argue.
If you're going to bother contacting 'experts' on a dash, why don't you just check it yourself? Should take about 2 seconds and one look to do that.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
Yeah, sure. Fact still stands that a guy messing around with a 2 minutes TAS doesn’t know shit about the game compared to players who’ve spent years upon years playing it at the highest competitive level. Do you even know what the FGC is? I’m watching a Street Fighter IV tournament right now. No TASer putting in 30 minutes for a 2 minutes TAS would understand shit about the game compared to what has been discovered in its 7 years of competitive life.
@arandomgameTASer: You’re actually stupid so I’m not even gonna reply.
@arandomgameTASer: You’re actually stupid so I’m not even gonna reply.
Way to act extremely childish. I fail to see how a TASer, a person who spends hours upon hours trying to improve a single frame, would NOT KNOW what the hell he's doing.
Hell, you spent YEARS working on SM64DS. MULTIPLE TIMES. Spending hours improving an existing run. You can't say you don't know shit about it after all that time, can you?
I get wanting to know if something is unoptimal or not, but when multiple people are saying that it is NOT unoptimal, and you continue to argue as if we did not just freaking tell you that, there's a huge fucking problem right there.
Like I said, stop pretending you understand what you're talking about.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
Show me a Yoshimitsu dash if you want to prove me wrong, then. If the animation is the same, what I said is correct.
First of all, even if the dash animation looks identical to the animation of the startup of another move, that proves absolutely nothing. Animations can be anything.
Second of all, here, have your comparison, and see for yourself that the animations are very much different: http://gfycat.com/PalatableImprobableHyracotherium
This proves that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Do proper research instead of conjecture, or just stop coming in with uninformed nonsense.
ALAKTORN wrote:
The guy who TASed the game knows very little about it.
This is presumptive at best, and downright offensive at worst. Certainly the person who TASed this game several times over knows "very little about it" and has to be lectured by a person who has never touched the game and has an incorrect view of what is even happening on screen.
ALAKTORN wrote:
Pro players in the fighting game community know everything about frame data and glitches
This is appeal to authority at its worst, and definitely not always correct! You try finding any professional Marvel vs Capcom player and show them a playaround TAS, they definitely won't understand half of what is going on, or at least not be aware of it beforehand. The set of knowledge for a fighting game player is very different than that of a TASer. Sure, they'll know the controls well enough, but they definitely do not know everything about the game, and definitely not all about the glitches.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Thank god you’re part of the staff, Moth. Insults aside, thanks for the post.
I suppose that comparison shows that the move is not the same as a dash. Still though, all I’ve been saying is that I want the opinion of a pro which is something the TASer should’ve gotten before he even submitted his TAS. You can’t attack me just because I want the TASer to do his job properly.
It’s so annoying to see TASers work in the dark and do their shit all alone, then submit shit that can often be suboptimal just because they kept to themselves so much. All I want is collaboration. Tekken has a rich pro community, if you’re gonna TAS one of their games the least you could do is get in contact.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Northern California
ALAKTORN wrote:
It’s so annoying to see TASers work in the dark and do their shit all alone, then submit shit that can often be suboptimal just because they kept to themselves so much. All I want is collaboration. Tekken has a rich pro community, if you’re gonna TAS one of their games the least you could do is get in contact.
ALAKTORN wrote:
Collaboration takes motivation, which I don’t have. Letting others figure out tricks for themselves allows them to level up as TASers.
You’re missing the point. I’m not a pro Tekken player. I wouldn’t know any better than Spikestuff.
arandomgameTASer wrote:
Hell, you spent YEARS working on SM64DS. MULTIPLE TIMES. Spending hours improving an existing run. You can't say you don't know shit about it after all that time, can you?
Only saw this now. Many of the strategies in the SM64DS TAS weren’t thought up by me nor the other TASer, they came from the community at large (shout outs to pannenkoek for his death warp!). So basically, a TASer alone can’t do shit.
Sorry, I still don't understand this logic. If you've TASed a game, naturally that means you understand the route, understand what makes the game tick, and generally get how the game works.
Like, I understand not knowing about a trick or whatever, but saying a TASer alone can't do something is silly. Many TASers pick up random games, games that have no outside speedruns or, and optimize them by learning about them themselves.
For an example, [2698] DS Kingdom Hearts Re:coded by arandomgameTASer in 1:41:02.94 completely turned the RTA route for Re:coded on its head, as I discovered a huge plethora of route changes and optimization to apply to RTA, many of which weren't even known about at the time. I figured that all out by myself.
So the logic that one single person can't do it is just odd to me.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
So the logic that one single person can't do it is just odd to me.
All I’m saying is the more the merrier. If you have a community you can contact, you should do it. That doesn’t mean that they’ll be able to help you, but that’s no excuse to not contact them in the first place.
