For quite some time now, I've been thinking of making an improved TAS of this game, but because some audio issues from the YT TAS, I really stayed away from it.
I actually tried an english v10 release on Hourglass and the sound worked, although my screen got a bit messy.
I would also want to figure out how to perform the desk glitch and see if it can be performed in said version of the game.
So yeah, it's a project Iwill definitely get into once I figure out all of my current issues with it... hoping it can be possible to work on it.
So this is a little bit of a shot in the dark. Yume Nikki is a game I am very familiar with and am very motivated to make a very good TAS for. Unfortunately I ran into a problem. The RNG is completely based off system time, and the games way of deciding what happens is very difficult to understand for someone who is not very experienced at TASing. The way I would have to do it is to try random times until I get one I like which could possibly take years to get one that is right. So I really do need help with this. If you are interested the way this would work is the person willing to help me would either find the right system time, or find the right RAM addresses and tell me what to do with them (obviously credit will be given). I know that people who are sort of new to the TAS community are not necessarily as trusted, but I can assure you I know this game inside and out and the TAS will be as close to perfect as I can get it.
Thank you c:
Current Yume Nikki Tas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-vH8orvNSc
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Northern California
There's a bit of a minor issue with Yume Nikki that actually makes it unpublishable at the moment. From the movie description:
I haven't submitted this to TASVideos because I had to modify the game slightly in order to make it work, which I think is against their submission rules. Specifically, there were some audio issues that made the movie either desync or be soundless, so I had to change all the MP3s to WAVs and fiddle with some settings in RPG Maker.
But that's just the Judge in me talking about site publication. If you want to just work on a new TAS for fun, go right ahead.
I don't know anything about the game, but I would start with figuring out exactly what you need out of the RNG when compared to the TAS itself. Are there any major timesaves that are RNG-dependent? Is bad RNG a matter of losing a few frames or would you be losing full seconds over it? You don't have to worry in the case of the former. If it's just simple things like enemy positions then it's pretty much negligible. I wouldn't tell anyone to find the perfect RNG if it only ends up saving a second or two. In case of the latter, though, I would just try to find the system time that leads to the biggest overall timesave, even if the rest of the RNG isn't perfect. Check as many as you can and go with the fastest one you find.
This isn't a situation where RNG can be easily controlled by in-game actions, so I would personally be more lax when it comes to judging "bad RNG". It's great that you're asking about it and worrying about the manipulation, but this is probably the one case on the site where it's not as big of a deal as it is anywhere else. Still a great habit to get into, though.
Sorry I can't be any more help than this. Good luck on the TAS!
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
There's a bit of a minor issue with Yume Nikki that actually makes it unpublishable at the moment. From the movie description:
I haven't submitted this to TASVideos because I had to modify the game slightly in order to make it work, which I think is against their submission rules. Specifically, there were some audio issues that made the movie either desync or be soundless, so I had to change all the MP3s to WAVs and fiddle with some settings in RPG Maker.
But that's just the Judge in me talking about site publication. If you want to just work on a new TAS for fun, go right ahead.
I don't know anything about the game, but I would start with figuring out exactly what you need out of the RNG when compared to the TAS itself. Are there any major timesaves that are RNG-dependent? Is bad RNG a matter of losing a few frames or would you be losing full seconds over it? You don't have to worry in the case of the former. If it's just simple things like enemy positions then it's pretty much negligible. I wouldn't tell anyone to find the perfect RNG if it only ends up saving a second or two. In case of the latter, though, I would just try to find the system time that leads to the biggest overall timesave, even if the rest of the RNG isn't perfect. Check as many as you can and go with the fastest one you find.
This isn't a situation where RNG can be easily controlled by in-game actions, so I would personally be more lax when it comes to judging "bad RNG". It's great that you're asking about it and worrying about the manipulation, but this is probably the one case on the site where it's not as big of a deal as it is anywhere else. Still a great habit to get into, though.
Sorry I can't be any more help than this. Good luck on the TAS!
Thank you c: if I may ask though what makes YN nonpunishable?
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Northern California
The TAS you linked modified the audio files to get it to sync properly, but we require the game to be unmodified for publication. Basically, in terms of judging and encoding, we need to be able to just download the game and have it work immediately without needing to resort to changing file formats and making weird, specific changes just to ensure a slight degree of syncability.
Hopefully this doesn't discourage the creation of a new TAS. If anything, it should encourage you trying to find a way to make a run sync on a fresh, unmodified download.
EDIT: Just to be clear, if it syncs on the unmodified game but Hourglass doesn't pick up the sound, then that's fine. The only thing preventing it from publication is tinkering around with the game files itself.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
The TAS you linked modified the audio files to get it to sync properly, but we require the game to be unmodified for publication. Basically, in terms of judging and encoding, we need to be able to just download the game and have it work immediately without needing to resort to changing file formats and making weird, specific changes just to ensure a slight degree of syncability.
Hopefully this doesn't discourage the creation of a new TAS. If anything, it should encourage you trying to find a way to make a run sync on a fresh, unmodified download.
EDIT: Just to be clear, if it syncs on the unmodified game but Hourglass doesn't pick up the sound, then that's fine. The only thing preventing it from publication is tinkering around with the game files itself.
The version used in the US is an English locale version is that considered modified? Other then that I'm pretty sure I know what caused the audio desync.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Northern California
Sabitsuki wrote:
The version used in the US is an English locale version is that considered modified?
Yes. Fan translations aren't accepted here either. See: http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#GameMustBeReal
Edit: Of course, this only applies to site submissions. If you don't intend to submit to the site, you can do whatever you want.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
The best way to get around that RNG would be to TAS the whole game in bits and pieces assuming best RNG, then splicing all the inputs together. After that you’d run a bot that changes the system time and runs your TAS until it finds a system time that syncs.
I don’t recall this game being heavy on RNG though so it should be possible to fiddle around with it and find a value that works manually…?
The best way to get around that RNG would be to TAS the whole game in bits and pieces assuming best RNG, then splicing all the inputs together. After that you’d run a bot that changes the system time and runs your TAS until it finds a system time that syncs.
I don’t recall this game being heavy on RNG though so it should be possible to fiddle around with it and find a value that works manually…?
The game is not to based on RNG but good RNG could save around 3 to 4 seconds all together.
Edit: But there are so many small RNG time saves to get them all right or at least most of them is extremely unlikely. For example there is a place in the game that when you enter it there is a 1/100 chance a demon will appear. If you could get that first try then it would save like 3 seconds. Most of the YN community has deemed it impractical to use in speedruns and even a TAS.
You mean Uboa? What kinda run are you thinking of doing with Uboa in it? 1/100 chance is actually pretty easy for TAS, you should definitely try to get that first try, worst case scenario you’ll have to manually try a different system time 100 times before getting it.
You mean Uboa? What kinda run are you thinking of doing with Uboa in it? 1/100 chance is actually pretty easy for TAS, you should definitely try to get that first try, worst case scenario you’ll have to manually try a different system time 100 times before getting it.
No by the Buyo Buyo effect there is a place you can enter and there is a 1/100 it can teleport you to the demon effect saving some time. Uboa is completely useless and is a 1/64 chance. There are even some rarer events that would save some time but some are so impractical they have never even been caught on camera. For example there is an event that is a 1/2400 chance (I think that is the right number)
EDIT: The wiki says it is 1/6 but there is so much not known about Yume Nikki that the wiki is often wrong. And in this case I am positive it is. (Never trust the YN wiki) Although 1/100 may have been an exaggeration lol. But the hard part would be getting all the little time saves to match up.
For quite some time now, I've been thinking of making an improved TAS of this game, but because some audio issues from the YT TAS, I really stayed away from it.
I actually tried an english v10 release on Hourglass and the sound worked, although my screen got a bit messy.
I would also want to figure out how to perform the desk glitch and see if it can be performed in said version of the game.
So yeah, it's a project Iwill definitely get into once I figure out all of my current issues with it... hoping it can be possible to work on it.
To be honest I will tell you TASing this game is not worth it unless you are a hardcore fan. For one the English translation is the only version of the game you can get with the speed glitch anymore so it can not be posted on TASvideos. Plus the fact Hourglass absolutely hates Yume Nikki. This TAS really should not have a remake but since there is a new route I am making one. Although if you would like to make a TAS I would definitely be willing to help you (I've already started making it though).
EDIT: If you have any questions about YN PM me and I can help you I do kind of think it would be pointless for both of us to make the same TAS at the same time.
As I have stated before a Yume Nikki TAS is not able to be submitted on TASvideos. However I did finish the Yume Nikki TAS so if anyone wants to check it out it out it is right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP5LqrTfcgs
Have you tried testing the original japanese version on Hourglass to see if it works?
I'm skeptical regarding few things. Does the desk glitch works on the japanese version? If not, why? Or, if it does exist there, why bother using the english version, or does the TAS sync there?
BTW, although I enjoyed the TAS, I think you should really upload the .wtf file in the userfiles, just in case it gets lost somehow and also as a guide if something else comes up.
Have you tried testing the original japanese version on Hourglass to see if it works?
I'm skeptical regarding few things. Does the desk glitch works on the japanese version? If not, why? Or, if it does exist there, why bother using the english version, or does the TAS sync there?
BTW, although I enjoyed the TAS, I think you should really upload the .wtf file in the userfiles, just in case it gets lost somehow and also as a guide if something else comes up.
Okay thank you for the advice c: . And I don't know why both versions say v0.10 but I can assure you they are different versions. At the very least the JP one had a last minute bug patch. Any information on Yume Nikki is almost non existent.
