Posted: 1/27/2005 8:49 AM
Post subject: Fist of the North Star
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Zettaijin
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 14
Location: Montréal, Québec
I've been dreaming of making some manner of contribution to this website for a long time now and seeing as I'm a neophyte and all, I decided I might go for a game I know all too well: Fist of the North Star for the NES. For the record, this was Hokuto no Ken 2 in Japan, sequel to a lackluster early effort called (obviously) Hokuto no Ken after the manga/anime that inspired it. Most people know the original by way of a hacked version found just about everywhere and labeled Fist of the North Star. A few years back I wrote a FAQ on the game (available on GameFAQs, which I suggest reading if you're interested in the differences between the American and Japanese versions) explaining general strategies and how the events on screen related to the manga/anime series. And now I'm going for a run. My objectives are as follow: -Avoid taking damage -Manage a speedy run (not sure how feasible this will be in later stages considering the first category, but we'll see) Killing everything is pointless as there's an endless supply of fist fodder sent your way. So far no glitches to be found, although slow motion jumping makes for extra high and long jumps. But I can't see much use for this at this point. I plan on experimenting in later stages, but my gut feeling tells me this game is too simple to have major exploitable glitches. Manipulating luck isn't of much use outside the boss battles as the regular foes more or less act the same way at all times and appear more or less at the same places. Bonus stars (gained after killing some foes with your punch) always appear with the same enemies. I've found out that super manly shirt ripping mode isn't exactly a necessity. Four hollow stars and one full star will give you most of the benefits... well THE benefit - faster speed - although you won't be able to launch fireballs. But fireballs aren't any better than regular blows, unless one Boss is particularly weak to them, and they're often thrown when trying to enter a doorway (same button presses). The range is nice but most boss strategies involve staying close to the later as opposed to far away. My main challenge is the iffy hit box/hit detection. No matter how hard you try, the bosses seem to have rather floaty hit boxes that make it difficult to properly land a blow, especially when airborn. And hitting the secret weakpoint is more trouble than it's worth because of this. Even near perfect timing won't necessarily lead to hitting their Achilles heel. You can be right next to a foe and hit without any effect due to mingling sprites. But this can be exploited to an extent by yours truly as most bosses don't hit when your sprites are over theirs. In one attempt at Bask, I found that the sucker was more or less trapped in a corner, going back and forth, falling to my blows rapidly. I've completed the first stage with only some minor issues here and there. I can see maybe three or four improvements and might have to redo much of the battle with Bask. This said, it's not a bad job for now (considering this is my first attempt) and I'll post a WIP as soon as I find a host.
Posted: 1/27/2005 3:29 PM
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Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Personally, I found the japanese version harder that US version. So .... Btw, it's evident it is a game you must always jump to advance faster than just walking. It makes a run, imo, annoying.
Posted: 1/27/2005 4:52 PM
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Zettaijin
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 14
Location: Montréal, Québec
Yes, the Japanese game is made slightly harder by the fact that the two first mini-bosses have a weird immunity to all blows except for a single spot on their head. Very annoying and silly - the mini-bosses are tougher than the first two level bosses! Hell, I'd even go as far as saying that I had a tougher time with them than with third level boss Taigaa (Tiger). Also, there are knives and bottles flying around in the early stages as well as the later ones. But the Japanese games' background graphics tend to lack a little luster. As for the jumping, that depends. The first level requires constant jumping, the others make it difficult due to obstacles (stairs and platforms in the second level, breakable blocks in the third), but extra long jumps and a fair number of foes tend to make up for this a bit. Also, once you gain super speed, it isn't quite as bad. The aim isn't pure speed, if that were the case there wouldn't be much of a difference between that and a normal run where you try to get to the end boss as quickly as possible. So, I found a host for my first draft of the 1st level. This a WIP and still needs some tinkering - especially the boss fight. http://www.ripway.com/members/getfile.asp?file=\2005-1\246363\fist_of_the_north_star_(u).fcm Constructive criticism and tips would be very much appreciated.
Posted: 1/28/2005 4:00 AM
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Zettaijin
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 14
Location: Montréal, Québec
I edited the link - seems I made a small mistake by putting down the URL for the "homepage" thinking it would lead back to the file. It should work now. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Posted: 1/28/2005 4:05 AM
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Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
But the link isn't good .
Posted: 1/28/2005 4:26 AM
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feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Link takes me to a login page?
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 1/28/2005 4:27 AM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Yeah nobody's going to want to sign up for something, heh... hop on the IRC channel and ask for some help, some people are always at the computer in there.
Posted: 1/28/2005 4:36 AM
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Zettaijin
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 14
Location: Montréal, Québec
*sighs*Apologies again, remind me to always read the instructions on the website first. Thing is, the link I gave was apparently for my own use and not for hotlinking/external downloads. This is apparently the proper URL. (I hope...) http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/246363/fist_of_the_north_star_(u).fcm
Posted: 1/28/2005 5:05 AM
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Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Is it really necessary to collect power-up? If you think it can save time, then go for it.
Posted: 1/28/2005 6:02 AM
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Zettaijin
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 14
Location: Montréal, Québec
Seeing as I can't jump nearly as often in later stages, the speed boost is almost a must. I calculated that you can almost triple your walking speed with the speed boost and even punching seems faster. The rapid fire punching/kicking boost isn't much of an issue when using turbo as it's basically the same thing, but the actual speed of everything you do is augmented by the speed boost. However, in the American version there's only one way to get a speed boost - collecting 4 hollow stars and a fifth, full one. Were it not for the slight back tracking involved, I could get them all in the first level. The full star appears near the arena where you need to backtrack and get a guy to drop down near one of the pitfalls. The Japanese version differs in this regard as the speed boost is given by a seperate power-up and affects you no matter how many stars you have. But the location of the first such powerup is more or less the same as that of the full star in the American version. I need to do a run of the 1st level on the Japanese version to see which would be fastest. Both versions have their obstacles and shortcuts.
Posted: 1/28/2005 7:24 AM
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Zettaijin
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 14
Location: Montréal, Québec
Seems I was wrong, the Japanese version also requires that you collect prior power ups before allowing you a speed boost as in the American version.
Posted: 2/2/2005 11:28 PM
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Zettaijin
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 14
Location: Montréal, Québec
OK folks, it took me long enough and there were countless problems with FCEU crashing left and right, but I managed to get past the third level. So far the movie is ok, I guess, The main reason to bother with the speed power up is to help in boss battles and I try to jump most of the time to go a little faster. In fact, the small jumps underneath the platform in the second stage were highly annoying for you see, I'm jumping without hitting my head on the platform, not an easy task and the game's shoddy controls don't help either. Also, frame by frame speed doesn't always mean an improvement as the controls aren't responsive enough to allow for a constant, free flowing stream of commands. http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/246363/fist_of_the_north_star_(u)_-_3rd_Boss_Dead.fcm
Posted: 2/4/2005 8:01 PM
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Zettaijin
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 14
Location: Montréal, Québec
I finished off both the 4th and 5th stage with this movie. The 4th stage was incredibly short, especially if you pick up the invincibility bracelet early on. With it, you can just zip your way straight to the boss. The 5th is more of the same only you need to repeat it three times before facing off with Bolts. I tried to make both boss fights as fast and painless as possible, even if it means a fair amount of lather, rinse, repeat in terms of technique. Not that Ken has that much variety in terms of offensive moves. The next stage is a doozy. It's an indoor setting with plenty of break away blocks, platforms, breakaway platforms and three, yes, count em' three minibosses. The second miniboss is almost as tough as a regular one to boot. Also, running is pretty much as fast as jumping so it's up to you to tell me which you prefer seeing. I did most of the 5th stage without jumping constantly as an example. http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/246363/fist_of_the_north_star_(u)_-_5th_Boss_Dead.fcm
Posted: 2/9/2005 6:12 PM
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Zettaijin
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 14
Location: Montréal, Québec
Huzzah! The final boss, the Shula Demon, has been defeated! In my excitement at finishing the first draft of the full movie, I somehow forgot to stop the movie at the final blow and overshot it a bit. Oh well, I'll make sure to correct that in due time. http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/246363/fist_of_the_north_star_(u)_-_FinalBoss_dead.fcm So, what can I do to improve this? I know the first boss Bask as well as Falco (7th and before last boss) could be done faster, but I haven't found any way to manipulate their behaviour during those fights. My best guess from trial and error is that it's up to luck as their behaviour probably works on a percentage based on your actions/their health etc. But somehow, they keep repeating the same patterns with every re-record attempts. The third boss, Tiger/Taigaa, was done faster with the jump than by trying to corner him or do a stick and move like I did with Bronze. Bronze, the 6th boss, is a pain due to his illusionary double that makes it impossible to corner him properly. It seems as if this is the fastest and surest way to eliminate him. I'm pretty happy with Bolts and Solia (5th and 4th bosses respectively) as well as with the stages themselves. I tried not to waste too much time with the stairs, although the 6th stage has such large ones that two jumps are needed to clear them. The walking vs. jumping has been explained before. Any questions or comments?
Posted: 6/13/2011 12:37 AM
Post subject: Level 1 WIP
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Kyman
Editor, Active player (429)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
TAS of 2012 Speedy TAS of 2012 3D Platforms TAS of 2012 N64 TAS of 2010 Speedy TAS of 2010
Uber bump. .fm2 WIP here. Link to video This WIP is around 1.5 seconds ahead (compared to this) when the final boss is killed I believe, but due to FCEUX emulating differently from FCEU, it ends up behind after the boss is dead. This is because FCEU emulates the space between the boss blowing up and the next level about 2 seconds quicker. But I believe slower more optimized movies have been accepted before? Anyways, any comments, questions, protips, anything will be helpful! :)
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Posted: 6/13/2011 1:04 AM
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NitroGenesis
He/Him
Editor, Experienced player (551)
Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873
Yeah, adelikat's Eggerland movie was slower then Bag of Magic Food's run because Famtasia emulated its load times wrong. The wippy looked good, continue and have fun :)
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Posted: 6/13/2011 1:21 AM
Post subject: YEAH 500TH POST
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Kyman
Editor, Active player (429)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
TAS of 2012 Speedy TAS of 2012 3D Platforms TAS of 2012 N64 TAS of 2010 Speedy TAS of 2010
Never mind, apparently it has to do something with some sort of frame rule...this could be annoying -_- edit: what a good 500th post that was
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Posted: 6/13/2011 2:54 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I wish I could make people explode just by punching them. :/ Fast wip. :3
Posted: 5/9/2012 3:25 AM
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mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2224
Location: Georgia, USA
Sorry about the first post here, but I never actually knew about this thread until just now. I saw the published movie for this come up when going through random movies, and I was amused by it, but I was also thinking ziplock's run is really dated by now. Anyone out there still interested in trying to obsolete this? I figure we've gotten enough action lately with short cheesy NES games (generally run by goofydylan8, it seems ;-) ) that this run would be worth a shot again.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Posted: 5/10/2012 11:35 PM
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Kyman
Editor, Active player (429)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
TAS of 2012 Speedy TAS of 2012 3D Platforms TAS of 2012 N64 TAS of 2010 Speedy TAS of 2010
I am, if my problem could be solved I would finish this TAS.
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Posted: 5/3/2015 11:24 AM
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Alyosha
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Editor, Expert player (3536)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2732
Location: US
GBA TASer of 2023 Homebrew TAS of 2023 Gameboy TASer of 2022 NES TASer of 2015
I was about to start working on this run, but here it is already done! Is there anything still keeping this from going to the workbench? I can help out if anything needs work.
Posted: 5/9/2015 2:13 PM
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Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Expert player (3536)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2732
Location: US
GBA TASer of 2023 Homebrew TAS of 2023 Gameboy TASer of 2022 NES TASer of 2015
So I did a bit of testing to find out why the boss takes so much longer to kill in kyman's run. Here is how killing a boss works. after the last hit, a timer at $0392 is reset to zero. Then it increases by 1 each frame until it hits 128. At 128 the boss explodes. After this happens and the sprites leave the screen is where things change. In the original run (and in the mini-boss) the timer does not reset, it counts up to 255, at which point play is resumed. But in Kyman's current WIP, the timer resets to 0 and has to go all the way back up to 255. So it's not really a frame rule per say, we just need to figure out why the timer resets in some cases but not others. I also noticed that kyman gets 50000 points for beating the boss, where the original run only get 10000. EDIT: seems like both things are connected to the critical hit head shot. When I beat the boss with it, it slows down, without it, speeds up. Critical hit gives 50000 points, normal hits, 10000. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/22672731366586841 WIP up to stage 5. Pretty easy with TASeditor.
Posted: 5/10/2015 4:31 PM
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Alyosha
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Joined: 11/30/2014
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Location: US
GBA TASer of 2023 Homebrew TAS of 2023 Gameboy TASer of 2022 NES TASer of 2015
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/22688727279303428 Found a neat new trick (not sure exactly why it works, intentional or not) but if you hit a boss on the last possible frame before you die as they deal you a killing blow (where you die while still having HP left) then they will die too, regardless of how much HP they have remaining. Only useful for bosses that slump over and die instead of blow up. EDIT: complete run saves about 25 seconds. Not sure how much can be saved additional.