This seems like the Brian incident all over again. When Brian told the other TASers that he could do 2nd bowser stage 1 frame faster than the new TAS, therefore the new TAS didn't get submitted for ages. It turned out Brian couldn't do it, and I suspect a simular thing is the case here.
Tfw the Japanese TASers would’ve submitted the TAS months ago if packer and friends collaborated with them.
What makes you think that? The BitFS improvement was publically released, and it took 8 months to get to the current version. On top of that the current best run was produced by the 0 star team. None of which suggests to me that the Japanese would have released an optimized 0 star TAS faster.
The only reason to believe the Japanese would have released already. Is because the Japanese tend to release far more incremental improvements rather than trying to get everything perfect the first time.
Tfw the Japanese TASers would’ve submitted the TAS months ago if packer and friends collaborated with them.
What makes you think that? The BitFS improvement was publically released, and it took 8 months to get to the current version. On top of that the current best run was produced by the 0 star team. None of which suggests to me that the Japanese would have released an optimized 0 star TAS faster.
The only reason to believe the Japanese would have released already. Is because the Japanese tend to release far more incremental improvements rather than trying to get everything perfect the first time.
…What the hell are you saying? Literally every single statement in this post is wrong. How do you have so much misinformation all at once? Amazing.
Never forget that packer is gonna upload the TAS to his channel and not share a penny with the Japanese TASers, again, btw.
Synx wrote:
This seems like the Brian incident all over again. When Brian told the other TASers that he could do 2nd bowser stage 1 frame faster than the new TAS, therefore the new TAS didn't get submitted for ages. It turned out Brian couldn't do it, and I suspect a simular thing is the case here.
Considering pannenkoek is involved in this improvement, I sadly think this is real. Edit: Btw Brian incident was BitDW (Bowser 1), not BitFS.
Never forget that packer is gonna upload the TAS to his channel and not share a penny with the Japanese TASers, again, btw.
Did Tyler Kehne see a penny from the videos by Japanese TASers based on his work?
I'm not taking a dig at snark here. I just mean to point out that you're being really unfair there.
Plus whatever the arrangement is the Japanese TASers are clearly fine with it.
…What the hell are you saying? Literally every single statement in this post is wrong. How do you have so much misinformation all at once? Amazing.
Never forget that packer is gonna upload the TAS to his channel and not share a penny with the Japanese TASers, again, btw.
Please humor me then, and explain where I am wrong.
The BitFS improvement was originally upload on July 13, 2015 by MKDasher, and later that day tied by Snark. It took until March 3, 2016 to get the the current state. So only 7.5 months, but both the discovery and ultimately optimization were done by the current 0 star team. If the Japanese are so amazing wouldn't they have optimized it during this time?
The accusation is that the players are withholding improvements just to do the TAS themselves,upload and have exclusivity over it,possibly for financial gain?
Also,if that were the case,what could we do about it?If you can't make the improvement yourself,forget about it,because you can't oblige anyone to give information or do things the way you want them to do.They'll simply TAS it or not,and share the info or not.It's completely up to them and i don't find the accusation,even if it were real, useful at all.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
@bzb95: I misunderstood one part of your post before. Regardless:
bzb95 wrote:
On top of that the current best run was produced by the 0 star team. None of which suggests to me that the Japanese would have released an optimized 0 star TAS faster.
I think snark got to the finalized version first, but I’m not sure. I get the feeling you’re considering snark as part of the “0 star team”, but the teams here are Japan vs. the west, not “0 star” vs. whoever imaginary else.
bzb95 wrote:
The only reason to believe the Japanese would have released already. Is because the Japanese tend to release far more incremental improvements rather than trying to get everything perfect the first time.
This is just wrong. The Japanese are still working on 120 Stars and never wanted to submit a run in the first place because it wasn’t optimized. The western community forced a run out of their ass in 2012 to get something published. Japan strives for perfection.
GoombaHeart wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
Never forget that packer is gonna upload the TAS to his channel and not share a penny with the Japanese TASers, again, btw.
Did Tyler Kehne see a penny from the videos by Japanese TASers based on his work?
The Japanese TASers do not monetize their YT videos.
GoombaHeart wrote:
Plus whatever the arrangement is the Japanese TASers are clearly fine with it.
What arrangement? There isn’t any. Why do you think the SM64 Japanese TASing community hates us?
I think snark got to the finalized version first, but I’m not sure. I get the feeling you’re considering snark as part of the “0 star team”, but the teams here are Japan vs. the west, not “0 star” vs. whoever imaginary else.
No Tyler Kehne found the current route. It is comical that you think I'm the one who is confused about the teams, but I digress.
ALAKTORN wrote:
This is just wrong. The Japanese are still working on 120 Stars and never wanted to submit a run in the first place because it wasn’t optimized. The western community forced a run out of their ass in 2012 to get something published. Japan strives for perfection.
Huge difference here. The Japanese didn't want to release a run with a known improvement. The 0 star doesn't necessarily have known improvements rather things that still need to be tested.
Remember these are the same people who took the BitFS improvement that they didn't find, wasn't optimal, and release in their own 0 star video 13 days later.
ALAKTORN wrote:
What arrangement? There isn’t any. Why do you think the SM64 Japanese TASing community hates us?
Really? How do you think they got the m64? It wasn't submitted to tasvideos, it isn't linked to on the video.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
I know y'all love petty slapfights in the SM64 thread but tone it the hell down, please.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
I think snark got to the finalized version first, but I’m not sure. I get the feeling you’re considering snark as part of the “0 star team”, but the teams here are Japan vs. the west, not “0 star” vs. whoever imaginary else.
No Tyler Kehne found the current route. It is comical that you think I'm the one who is confused about the teams, but I digress.
Route ≠ optimization. Did Tyler make the final optimized one? I was talking about that. Edit: Also I still think snark found the final route. Tyler found the initial improvement, then snark improved upon it a little further IIRC.
bzb95 wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
This is just wrong. The Japanese are still working on 120 Stars and never wanted to submit a run in the first place because it wasn’t optimized. The western community forced a run out of their ass in 2012 to get something published. Japan strives for perfection.
Remember these are the same people who took the BitFS improvement that they didn't find, wasn't optimal, and release in their own 0 star video 13 days later.
What improvement do you mean?
bzb95 wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
What arrangement? There isn’t any. Why do you think the SM64 Japanese TASing community hates us?
Really? How do you think they got the m64? It wasn't submitted to tasvideos, it isn't linked to on the video.
Route ≠ optimization. Did Tyler make the final optimized one? I was talking about that. Edit: Also I still think snark found the final route. Tyler found the initial improvement, then snark improved upon it a little further IIRC.
Tyler found it, and optimized it to its current state. Maybe you wouldn't hate the 'west' so much if you actually gave them credit for anything.
ALAKTORN wrote:
What improvement do you mean?
The BitFS PU route.
ALAKTORN wrote:
The m64 to what?
You're the one who brought up that they are using the Japanese input with what you consider a unfair deal suggesting they didn't agree to it. As sonicpacker said above "due to us requesting their B2 fight input".
This is great stuff. I feel like we are getting an insight into the challenges the TASers face. I am still unlear as to how a real moat door skip can have been found like half a year ago, but still no TAS has been made with it? What would cause such a disgrace. Surely one of the people knowing such a trick must feel compelled to show the world ASAP?
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
Never forget that packer is gonna upload the TAS to his channel and not share a penny with the Japanese TASers, again, btw.
sonicpacker would like to let everyone know that any rumor about him monetizing TASes by other TASers, or collaborated with other TASers, is completely incorrect. Please stop bringing this up. I won't tolerate any more posts about this topic (monetizing) in particular.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Route ≠ optimization. Did Tyler make the final optimized one? I was talking about that. Edit: Also I still think snark found the final route. Tyler found the initial improvement, then snark improved upon it a little further IIRC.
Tyler found it, and optimized it to its current state.
I looked it up and you’re right, I guess I was confused by a video of snark of an attempted improvement that barely failed. Also it’s not obvious from this conversation so I’ll just put it out there but, the westerners never shared an m64 with the Japanese of it and snark figured it out by himself.
bzb95 wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
What improvement do you mean?
The BitFS PU route.
I don’t want to go look this up but an upload to YT is completely different to a submission to TASV. Just because they updated any% with something that back then was probably thought to be optimized doesn’t mean anything. Also the whole argument that they never submitted a 120 because there were “known improvements” for what, 5 years now? Is ridiculous. Regardless, why are we even discussing this? It’s not important whether or not Japanese TASers submit every little improvement they find or not (they don’t though). My point was that the Japanese TASers would actually work on the TAS, instead of sitting on their secret without TASing anything for months.
bzb95 wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
The m64 to what?
You're the one who brought up that they are using the Japanese input with what you consider a unfair deal suggesting they didn't agree to it. As sonicpacker said above "due to us requesting their B2 fight input".
…again, what m64? I’m not sure what “B2 fight input” means. If that’s about the old 0 stars submission, then it might’ve been before the Japanese hated us (I’m not sure when that began). I also never said “they didn’t agree to it”, I said there was no arrangement. There was nothing to agree to. The westerners uploaded the 0 stars run and shared money between themselves, gave nothing to the Japanese, unbeknownst to them.
[MOD EDIT (Mothrayas): I decided to directly ignore the order given by a moderator, and I won't do this again or I'll be banned permanently. My bad!]
MODERATION NOTE: Because of a recent flood of abuse by a member of the community that has been banned, I am locking this topic for about 12 hours while we deal with the issue. I apologize for the inconvenience.
MODERATION NOTE: The threat appears to have passed, and you can resume normal non-flaming posting. Thank you for your patience.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Another moderation note: please get back on topic. Further posts about off-topic matters or users will be removed, and continued disruptive posters will be dealt with.
EDIT: Plush, I'm serious, one more and you will be out as well.
EDIT 2: Okay, you asked for it, Plush. I'll see about unbanning you sometime next month or so.
Once again -- this goes to everyone -- let's get back on topic.
EDIT 3: Unbanned Plush now.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
