I understand the peculiarities of this run, and it's incongruity with the mission statement of the rest of the site, but for the casual visitor to the site, don't you think he needs some kind of Zelda swordless run? Maybe just as a concept demo, rather than a formal TAS.
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
My ideal run of this type would be:
1. Uses sword only for Gannon
2. As fast as possible
This way, the game is beaten, providing a clean ending consistent with prior swordful runs. I think the fact that you do end up getting the sword is irrelevant as most video watchers should be discerning enough to notice that you're not using it. I could see an argument for not obtaining the sword until the 1st 8 levels are beaten, but I'm indifferent about that.
I also don't see any reason to get the rod as late "as possible." I'd rather see a clean, well-thought-out route, than a tortured one that leaves certain bosses for last just because they're "rod-only."
I'd love to see both the swordless run and an "all-items" run...
Also possible would be a run that just doesn't use the wooden and the white sword. This would also provide a very large part of the TAS with swordless questing.
I'm also in favor of "as fast as possible".
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I might be the only one, but I wouldn't mind if the movie ended with Link dying at Gannon. You could also swing the Rod at him a few times as you take damage to make the point to the viewer. I know Gannon will be invisible, but whatever.
I'm also in favor of AFAP. If I want to watch someone take an hour to beat Zelda "without being cheap", I'll watch an LP. (Or I'll do it myself.) Please abuse every glitch you can find. This game isn't yet at the point of LttP where we need to ban certain glitches in order make a game out of it.
I feel that a run should never end with a death (unless the game is beaten). So either do a swordless run and figure out a way to win or just use a sword for only (gannon. ;))
I remember typing gannon and being like "I'm pretty sure everyone is spelling this wrong."
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
It's good that Gannon isn't in this game, so we won't have that problem.....
I liked the old swordless WIP at least, but by dying in the end will confuse a lot of people and it just doesn't look to good. But still, I don't know of anything better at the moment.
I think it should end with dying at Ganon, too. It just makes more sense to do that instead of just saying "oh hey I'm just using the sword here to give you the ending of the game enjoy!" After all, such is the fate of swordless questers, and it might be possible to make the death entertaining as well.
Die, then go all the way back with the sword to exact your revenge!
The phrase "stupid enough to work" comes to mind. :D
Death is confusing, but losing to Ganon then getting the sword will probably make sense. Or at least make taking the sword seem like less of a cop-out.
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Tompa wrote:
It's good that Gannon isn't in this game, so we won't have that problem.....
I liked the old swordless WIP at least, but by dying in the end will confuse a lot of people and it just doesn't look to good. But still, I don't know of anything better at the moment.
GANNON-BANNED! :|
My published movies
[03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ...
[03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ?
[03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes!
[03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
No responses to my "magical sword"-only suggestion?
That would have a great deal of swordless questing too (you need 12 hearts to get it, you start with 3, 8 are at dungeons, and 5 scattered throughout hyrule).
No responses to my "magical sword"-only suggestion?
That would have a great deal of swordless questing too (you need 12 hearts to get it, you start with 3, 8 are at dungeons, and 5 scattered throughout hyrule).
Well, if we truly want a "minimalist sword" run if people INSIST on ending at the credits, then use the Wooden Sword only. Pick it up on the last game restart. Makes things more interesting. I still think a true-swordless followed by death run would be the best, if only for the screenshot showing Ganon's room without the sword. Anyone paying atttention to the movie would know it would make sense to end it there, anyway (or at the file select screen after dying). For the less attentive, we could have a disclaimer message pop-up on-screen to explain why that was done and why the sudden strangeness (it was done in at least one other movie; the Battletoads 2-Player all levels on Level 11, where it was explained Player 2 had to game over because of a bug)
I am currently working on a swordless speedrun and will end the video when link and ganon are holding up the triforces. But i had a couple questions about luck manipulation in this game. I know things change depending on the frames like most other games with RNGs but how does killing enemies affect the manipulations? Are there specific rules to manipulating luck through killing enemies or is it random as well? Anyway, heres what i completed in my test run 2 nights ago. Hope you enjoy.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/983374041/ZeldaSwordless.fcm
I am currently working on a swordless speedrun and will end the video when link and ganon are holding up the triforces.
I will just tell you right now that I will vote a very strong no for any run that doesn't actually complete the game.
Grab the sword and beat the game. Just don't bother actually getting it/using it until when it's absolutely required.
Also, the Battletoads one is not a valid analogy:
- It's a glitch in the game that cannot be avoided
- Player 2 returns for the next level and the game is still completed with both players
That is just my opinions on this. I want to see a swordless run, but bleh.
I am currently working on a swordless speedrun and will end the video when link and ganon are holding up the triforces. But i had a couple questions about luck manipulation in this game. I know things change depending on the frames like most other games with RNGs but how does killing enemies affect the manipulations? Are there specific rules to manipulating luck through killing enemies or is it random as well? Anyway, heres what i completed in my test run 2 nights ago. Hope you enjoy.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/983374041/ZeldaSwordless.fcm
There is a elaborate explanation of luck manipulation (both enemy movement, and enemy drops) in the submission text of the recent second quest run: http://tasvideos.org/2091S.html
Anyway, I'll check the wip.
Edit: Having watched the first 10 seconds of the run (even though it's only a test), I suggest to read that submission text even more. Zigzagging to the upper right and lower left saved time. Also, I see no reason whatsoever not to use the screen glitch.
Edit2: Well, it's obviously a test run. You did however use the glitch inside level 1. You used the old method though, check the new second quest TAS. I think using the glitch in the overworld might cause some route changes.
thanks for all the feedback! ill check out the manipulation techniques and other glitches that i havent seen yet. i'm not actually planning on submitting this as an official run, just something i had seen and was interested in trying. i love to tas and it seemed fun. i would however be interested in making a 100% run if in fact it is a submittable run. neways ill check out that stuff and hopefully be able to incorporate it all.
yah 100% items is what i was talking about. i guess though technically the white sword, blue candle, and blue ring can be skipped since they are obsolete once u get the upgrades. although it may not be optimal to skip the candle since it comes in handy early in the run.
when the rupee game resets every 4 frames is each instance a random event or is there a set pattern. its really pissing me off. ive tried to change my route multiple times to get the best pattern for the rupee game, but because i'd like to have at least 4 50's it becomes optimal sometimes to get the one on the left and sometimes even the right one. any input would be greatly appreciated.
