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In a discussion of the Space Station Silicon Valley TAS that was recently published, the topic of a completion TAS was brought up. I'm interested in doing an SSSV completion TAS at some point, so I figured I'll ask this now. In SSSV, there is an item (the Fat Bear Mountain souvenir/trophy) that cannot be collected because they forgot to enable collision. Last year a romfix was developed that does 3 things: 1. enables collision for this item 2. fixes a known expansion pak incompatibility that causes the game to freeze 3. provides language select options My question is: would a TAS made with the romfix be accepted for a completion run or would it have to use the base game? The gameplay would be identical because I would run through the item in the base game to fulfill the purpose of getting "as close as possible" to completion. It's just more satisfying to actually collect that trophy. It would be pretty cathartic for fans of the game to see the thing disappear too.
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Alright so this is a question about the improvement run to the Sonic 3 and Knuckles Knuckles run that'll be made in the future. Currently Knuckles doesn't go for the big rings because that would require dealing with the Super/Hyper transformation mechanics. Namely the ring drain from the transformation and the fact that you can't glide (which is what allows Knuckles to do a lot of his cool movement) with over 50 rings until you transform. I found a way around this by disabling those transformations entirely. Only problem is it requires the use of a game genie code which the game specifically forbids. Is there a possibility you guys can make an exception for this?
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kaan55 wrote:
I found a way around this by disabling those transformations entirely. Only problem is it requires the use of a game genie code which the game specifically forbids. Is there a possibility you guys can make an exception for this?
Tools that manipulate ROM or RAM (e.g. Game Genie codes) are not allowed Cheats, debugging codes, and arcade continues are not allowed TL;DR: No. edit: quoted mcill on accident not kaan55.
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Memory
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kaan55 wrote:
Alright so this is a question about the improvement run to the Sonic 3 and Knuckles Knuckles run that'll be made in the future. Currently Knuckles doesn't go for the big rings because that would require dealing with the Super/Hyper transformation mechanics. Namely the ring drain from the transformation and the fact that you can't glide (which is what allows Knuckles to do a lot of his cool movement) with over 50 rings until you transform. I found a way around this by disabling those transformations entirely. Only problem is it requires the use of a game genie code which the game specifically forbids. Is there a possibility you guys can make an exception for this?
This doesn't seem to be a particularly compelling reason to make an exception here. Game Genies are simply an external way to modify RAM. When using a game genie, it is essentially no longer the same game since the game no longer functions as it was designed. Why allow this game genie code in particular and not allow direct editing of the RAM to call the ending? It really doesn't make much of a difference once you allow that kind of external modification.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Memory wrote:
Why allow this game genie code in particular and not allow direct editing of the RAM to call the ending?
The code only prevents knuckles to get his super form after reaching 50 rings, this can allows us to collect every ring, including the giant ones without get his transformation and activates the ring drain effect and keep gameplay normal. Just like on the newgame+ ring-attack. We are aware of the rules, we aren't trying to get the game ending instantly with the genie code, just we want to know if is possible to make an exception because this code can improve the gameplay and the movie watchability
You can see more TASes on my youtube channel
Memory
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What I meant by that line specifically is that not only would it be breaking the rules, it would be breaking the rules in a suboptimal way. The optimal way would be to trigger ending. This is the same principle that we apply to ACE in our rules:
Movie Rules wrote:
It is not allowed to use arbitrary code inefficiently, creating runs which skip smaller and arbitrary portions of the game than would otherwise be possible.
I see little reason to allow an exception in this case.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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NES TAS of 2011
mcill wrote:
In a discussion of the Space Station Silicon Valley TAS that was recently published, the topic of a completion TAS was brought up. I'm interested in doing an SSSV completion TAS at some point, so I figured I'll ask this now. In SSSV, there is an item (the Fat Bear Mountain souvenir/trophy) that cannot be collected because they forgot to enable collision. Last year a romfix was developed that does 3 things: 1. enables collision for this item 2. fixes a known expansion pak incompatibility that causes the game to freeze 3. provides language select options My question is: would a TAS made with the romfix be accepted for a completion run or would it have to use the base game? The gameplay would be identical because I would run through the item in the base game to fulfill the purpose of getting "as close as possible" to completion. It's just more satisfying to actually collect that trophy. It would be pretty cathartic for fans of the game to see the thing disappear too.
We have a movie that uses a patched ROM because otherwise the game can't even be completed. But for visually identical outcome, we don't allow patched game images if we have unpatched ones available.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
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Eh it was worth a shot :p Well here's my real question then. What if were to use an edited rom that disabled transformations instead? Would that work?
Memory
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This would make it a romhack meaning that the rules for romhacks would apply and it would be judged as such. Given how small the change is, it's safe to assume the answer is no.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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In that case, time to break the game :p
ViGadeomes
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Hello, I have a game where at the beginning after creating your character, a beginning the adventure. Someone comes and speaks to us to ask us if we want to take a home to begin the adventure if we refuse his proposition, we reach the credits. Is this way can be considered as beating the game ? Also, since I'm pretty sure all my TASes of this game will go to Vault and that we can choose the name of our character and some other things. Can I submit with at first a "funny" name if by any miracle my movies are enough enertainning to Moons and if not I can put the movies with all choices that are faster if i see that the Vault is the only option ? Or do I have to put my fastest movie at first ? Thanks in advance.
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PSX TASer of 2016
You're talking about Harvest Moon aren't ya?
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ViGadeomes
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Harvest Moon 3 GBC yes x). There's a lot of ending possible in this game so I have to know if i can yo do other versions of the "Male any%" like marriage or all days. I decided to do all any% possibles for Harvest Moon games that nobody will want to do because very very boring to do and watch...
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NES TAS of 2011
ViGadeomes wrote:
Hello, I have a game where at the beginning after creating your character, a beginning the adventure. Someone comes and speaks to us to ask us if we want to take a home to begin the adventure if we refuse his proposition, we reach the credits. Is this way can be considered as beating the game ?
It's a normal in-game scenario right? Doesn't sound like completing anything whatsoever.
ViGadeomes wrote:
Also, since I'm pretty sure all my TASes of this game will go to Vault and that we can choose the name of our character and some other things. Can I submit with at first a "funny" name if by any miracle my movies are enough enertainning to Moons and if not I can put the movies with all choices that are faster if i see that the Vault is the only option ? Or do I have to put my fastest movie at first ?
http://tasvideos.org/Guidelines.html#EnterANiceName
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
ViGadeomes
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feos wrote:
It's a normal in-game scenario right? Doesn't sound like completing anything whatsoever.
It has been chosen by developpers yes. And that's why I'm asking... Actually this game has two different characters and for each some ways to finish the game. The boy is the only one who can finish the game this way. As a no branch TAS for the girl, the two possible fastest ways are completing all days of the game as quickly as possible or be married to the boy who lives with us. I have to finish the marriage to know what is the fastest way. Not accepting the fastest way for the boy would maybe make the two characters having the same fastest ending.
feos wrote:
http://tasvideos.org/Guidelines.html#EnterANiceName
Thanks i'll do with a funny name at first and then if I see that Vault is the only option I change the movie for the fastest name.
ViGadeomes
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Spikestuff told me about your feeling about this category where nothing is completed but I would like to have a final response to be sure and make the fastest completion of the boy, thanks !
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NES TAS of 2011
Movie Rules wrote:
The game-play needs to standout from non-assisted play, and must not be seen as trivial.
Patashu wrote:
I guess any% is too trivial for TASVideos.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
ViGadeomes
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oK thanks and sorry to not having look at the rules before ^^'
EZGames69
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There is a SMB bootleg that was released on the Korean Sega Master System, however apparently it’s actually a game from the SG-1000 which was also only in korea, just ported straight over to the SMS. Both versions are almost identical (and the checksum for the SMS one matches with bizhawk, haven’t tested SG-1000 yet). My question is which version would be best to use if a tas would be made for it? The game name Super Boy 2 for reference.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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NES TAS of 2011
The one that's better?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
EZGames69
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They are both the same. How do you define “better” here?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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NES TAS of 2011
Better graphics, better music, better gameplay, more (or less) glitches, etc. If they are identical, we don't care which one you pick.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
EZGames69
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Alright so apparently there already is a publication for this game: http://tasvideos.org/2363M.html (and feos was the one who accepted it, lol) So it should be good to use the SMS version. I already know of some improvements that can be used that I found on my own!
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Fortranm
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[1299] SNES Contra III: The Alien Wars "game end glitch" by Cpadolf in 03:20.38 Does this still count as game completion by current standards?
EZGames69
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Not a judge but..... What “current standards” do you mean? Iirc as long as a game reaches to the ending even if it passes credits, it still counts as completion.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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