Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4123)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Editor, Player (175)
Joined: 4/7/2015
Posts: 331
Location: Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil
Challenger
He/Him
Skilled player (1689)
Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
Voted Super Mario Bros. 3, along with Super Mario Bros "warpless" (current run) and Metroid.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Skilled player (1247)
Joined: 8/29/2014
Posts: 302
Gotta go with Super Bat Puncher here.
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
Almost thought we'd got this one. These last-hour votes are tight. For the last 3 hours, 3 votes for SMB3, 1 vote for MrWint, none for us. Nevertheless, congrats to Lord Tom, Maru & Tompa for NES TAS of 2018.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Challenger
He/Him
Skilled player (1689)
Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
This poll was interesting for me: First, Super Mario Bros. 3, much later, Super Mario Bros (current run) reached with a same amount of votes, then surpassed, vice-versa a few times...until reaching a final result. I enjoyed seeing the stuff of current Super Mario Bros TAS and I considered that would be a winner, but when Super Mario Bros. 3 appeared, I changed to this game, because hey, was truly amazing how I watched it, especially (again) the route change of 8-Fortress! Congratulations to the winners!
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
There's no doubt that both the SMB3 TAS and our warpless TAS could deserve this award. I don't know about SMB3, but as I said, the current SMB warpless TAS is likely to be a perfect run, and the peak of SMB TASing. I don't think I'll ever make a better TAS than that. If there were an award for "Controversial TAS of 2018", our run would probably win, even though it shouldn't have controversy at all. The real controversy is nominating and voting for an obsoleted TAS, which you guys seem to be OK with it. I wonder if this happened before.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
GoddessMaria
She/Her
Reviewer, Experienced player (863)
Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 518
Location: Hell...
HappyLee wrote:
If there were an award for "Controversial TAS of 2018", our run would probably win, even though it shouldn't have controversy at all. The real controversy is nominating and voting for an obsoleted TAS, which you guys seem to be OK with it. I wonder if this happened before.
...let's seriously not spark this up again. As the wise Nahyuta Sahdmadhi would say, "Let it go and move on."
Current projects: failing at life
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
GoddessMaria wrote:
...let's seriously not spark this up again. As the wise Nahyuta Sahdmadhi would say, "Let it go and move on."
With all due respect, do you really think you can settle it by locking our thread? The fact is, the best SMB TAS ever made (IMO), or at least a TAS in the highest standard possible, has become the lowest-rating SMB TAS in many years on TASVideos. Is there something wrong here or it's just me?
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4123)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
It is legitimate, if unusual, to nominate an obsolete TAS. There are a few general potential reasons, like a notable difference in entertainment, or the unobsolete movie being ineligible due to some other reason (different system, Vault, etc.) In this case, it's quite clear that some people disagree with some of the entertainment choices in the current TAS, and hence prefer the other one even if that one is actually slightly slower. That is a possible and valid reason to like a movie more, and hence, to nominate a movie. After all, it's impossible to please everyone in entertainment. Now, both movies were nominated, and yours got more than twice the amount of votes the other movie did, and you only barely lost the award outright to an unrelated movie. Clearly this shows that there is more preference to your movie than to the previous one. At this point, I'm not sure what you still want to achieve by posting about controversy here. The movie has been published half a year ago in Stars, the award votes have been cast with your movie well in favor of the other one, and...there really is nothing else left to gain here. So, I will reiterate what GoddessMaria quoted, and say to let it go and move on. There is nothing left to gain at this point, and no need for even more controversy after everything that has already happened so far.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
Yes, it is legitimate, but in this case, "you could" doesn't mean "you should". It's OK to like a movie more than another, but some people should take award nomination seriously. Nominating an obsoleted TAS without actual reason other than personal taste, is not only unusual and controversial, but also shows disrespect towards the current run. This shouldn't be encouraged, if ever allowed. As an admin, you should see, that there are already lots of hate, prejudice, and disrespect towards our work (from rating, voting, comments, etc.), and you should know when it's actual personal taste and when it's just an excuse. I wouldn't need to bring this up if people recognize that there is a problem instead of ignoring it and demanding me to shut up. But the problem is real and still unsolved, that our run is the lowest-rating SMB TAS in many years (despite from being a Star), and our thread is still being locked. I'm just here (since there's nowhere else) to ask, that people should treat our work fairly.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
InputEvelution
She/Her
Editor, Reviewer, Player (36)
Joined: 3/27/2018
Posts: 194
Location: Australia
HappyLee wrote:
As an admin, you should see, that there are already lots of hate, prejudice, and disrespect towards our work (from rating, voting, comments, etc.).
If you care so much about hate and disrespect towards TASes, why did you complain for days on end about MrWint's TAS when he submitted it for not being made "the right way"? And if bringing up that matter is beating a dead horse, why are you still bringing this up?
HappyLee wrote:
I did say "Objectively speaking, our TAS follows every guidelines on how to be entertaining." in my deleted post. By the way, purely saying that "MrWint's movie is more entertaining" is also a matter of opinion.
So you say your TAS is objectively better for entertainment, yet liking MrWint's TAS for the same reason is a subjective opinion. If saying preferring your TAS is objectively a correct opinion isn't narcissism, I don't know what is. Your TAS got more than double the votes that MrWint's TASes got. At this point, you are complaining that people voted for a movie other than yours at all, calling it "disrespectful" and calling for a ban on being able to vote for it at all - something that doesn't matter in the first place given that neither of you won. If you are genuinely upset enough about people having different tastes to yourself, and not praising your work to heaven and back, that you want to prevent people from being able to express the opinion at all - something you clearly don't mind - maybe you should ask yourself if maybe these hateful and prejudiced people are the way they are because of a lack of self-conduct from yourself. EDIT: Since I just noticed it, I might as well point out HappyLee's signature in addition to what I've said: "Haters like Spikestuff deliberately ruined our hard work (SMB warpless TAS) by bad votes & spiteful comments, yet the moderators did nothing but locking the thread. The truth will be remembered." It speaks for itself.
Troye
He/They
Experienced player (944)
Joined: 4/27/2018
Posts: 66
HappyLee wrote:
It's OK to like a movie more than another,
Clearly not when you're involved. Enough said. The vote is over. Why do you still bring this up?
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
TheProJamer wrote:
If you care so much about hate and disrespect towards TASes, why did you complain for days on end about MrWint's TAS when he submitted it for not being made "the right way"?
I never said MrWint's TAS is not made "the right way", nor that I ever hate or disrespect MrWint's TAS. I was only offering arguments from a long-time SMB TASer's point of view, and it's a fact that the improvements of MrWint's TAS are both found with an irregular approach, which has rarely being used in other projects, so it's normal to have some controversy and arguments.
TheProJamer wrote:
So you say your TAS is objectively better for entertainment, yet liking MrWint's TAS for the same reason is a subjective opinion. If saying preferring your TAS is objectively a correct opinion isn't narcissism, I don't know what is.
It's not narcissism, and it's not modesty either, but I have to point out that our TASes should fit better with the guidelines on how to be entertaining (if that can be regard as an objective standard for entertainment). I have lots to say on this, but to keep it simple, in a TAS, what matters is what you do, and what we did in our warpless TAS is bringing more actions, showing off more glitches and tricks, and to make the TAS more like a Superplay rather than an real-time speedrun.
TheProJamer wrote:
...maybe you should ask yourself if maybe these hateful and prejudiced people are the way they are because of a lack of self-conduct from yourself.
If people have to be hateful and prejudiced towards me, then speak directly to me, or point out what I did wrong, publicly or through messages, that's OK. But it's not fair or nice to ruin our work which shouldn't be controversy at all.
Woops wrote:
The vote is over. Why do you still bring this up?
I think I've already answered it. To add something from my personal point of view, even though SMB3 TAS is great and a fair winner of NES TAS of 2018, but the whole process hasn't been fair to our run right from the nomination phase (since my post of questioning of a nomination was immediately removed by an admin), and the biggest difference between SMB3 TAS and our run is that their run doesn't have haters, and clearly someone wouldn't want our TAS win due to the remaining hate and prejudice left half a year ago.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1918)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
HappyLee wrote:
already lots of hate, prejudice, and disrespect towards our work (from rating, voting, comments, etc.) (...) the biggest difference between SMB3 TAS and our run is that their run doesn't have haters, and clearly someone wouldn't want our TAS win due to the remaining hate (...)
- I think you are over exaggerating the amount of "haters" if there are any. I don't really remember about negative backlash about you or SMB on its own, maybe this is about PAL SMB...? Can anyone point me to the thread with said haters? - Award nominations and votes are done by the community. The number of voters and the number of users in the community definitely hints that it doesn't reflects everybody's opinion.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- I think you are over exaggerating the amount of "haters" if there are any. I don't really remember about negative backlash about you or SMB on its own, maybe this is about PAL SMB...? Can anyone point me to the thread with said haters?
If you'd learn more about haters, check out negative comments, NO votes and negative ratings of our publication.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- Award nominations and votes are done by the community. The number of voters and the number of users in the community definitely hints that it doesn't reflects everybody's opinion.
Yes, and I'm saying that there's an unsolved problem left in this community for over half a year, that has surely affected this award's nomination and voting. The only victim has been our hard work.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1918)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Just to reiterate, I only want to find (and maybe figure out) proofs of negativity around SMB movies and/or you.
HappyLee wrote:
If you'd learn more about haters, check out negative comments, NO votes and negative ratings of our publication.
- Negative comments is just linking the Threaded Gruefood, so I guess you are talking about these ones, which nearly has zero negativity: Off topic links about this, collected by Nach And this thread Thread #20747: Split from NES Awards 2018 - NO votes for #5975: HappyLee & Mars608's NES Super Mario Bros. "warpless" in 18:36.78: 8 out of 74. I see you cancelled because inital no votes. Also some posts that still relevant from that thread: - By Nach: "Don't expect to win everyone over. The best you can hope for is the majority of viewers." - Also by Nach: "Also bear in mind not everyone here has the capacity to understand entertainment. Some of our members suffer from various issues preventing them from even noticing anything other than raw numbers. However, the focus shouldn't be just for them, they get their numbers either way. " - By Memory: "The question at the top of the page asks the viewer if they found the movie entertaining. It does not ask if the viewer thinks the movie is entertaining to a variety of people nor it does not ask what tier they think it belongs to. Some people may find it not entertaining for seemingly trivial or even personal reasons. Separation of art and artist may be seen as ideal to some but as far as I know is not an explicit requirement for voting. The question of the poll does not care what your reason is, as long as you express your opinion." edit: The post below me by fmp shares the same stuffs I had in my mind, so imagine I wrote something similar like him.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
fmp
He/Him
Active player (279)
Joined: 9/1/2018
Posts: 82
HappyLee, if your goal is to alienate yourself and become a social pariah by way of petty diatribe and bombastic flamebaiting, then bravo; you are on well on your way to success. If that's not your motive, then you need to just stop. You are driving a wedge between yourself and this community, and you're doing it with an aggressive force that could kill an elephant. What happened here was one extremely good TAS of one of the most popular NES games lost to another extremely good TAS of another one of the most popular NES games, and it was neck and neck the whole time. I can tell you from an outsider's perspective that everything you seem to think happened in the process of your submission is wrong. Most of the "hate" (as you put it) happened because of you lambasting anyone who didn't fully agree that your warpless TAS was a gift from the gods. It seems you grow more bitter by the day, as if the site is slowly plotting to erase your contributions from existence. I used to feel empathy for you. But the more I look at this, the more I can't. You clearly can't let go of your confused version of the past. And I guess this should have been evident to me from your pathetic signature. I wanted to make sure my posts at TASVideos all remained polite, contrary to my usual demeanor, but I just can't anymore. Your childish behavior has driven me to a breaking point where I just have to say something. But really, this is all just for my sanity. You won't listen to me. Or anyone. You'll continue to bitch and moan until you get your way, which will be never. This portion of the thread is just going to be moved to threaded gruefood where you will take it as evidence of your paranoid theories about how much TASVideos hates you. To anyone reading this: Just don't respond to him, now or in the future. I know I won't be responding here any further. Just ignore him and let a moderator come and sweep up the mess. I may sound like a massive hypocrite here, but hopefully I can be the last of those hypocrites. Your petulance precedes you, HappyLee. At this point, the greatest upside to the warpless TAS being absolutely perfect is that we won't have to deal with your tantrums in any future submissions.
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- Negative comments is just linking the Threaded Gruefood, so I guess you are talking about these ones, which nearly has zero negativity: Off topic links about this, collected by Nach
Probably you've missed some (the thread is pretty messed up). At that time the thread's full of negative comments are arguements over arguements (mostly towards me and my work) so the admin had to clear the thread.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- NO votes for #5975: HappyLee & Mars608's NES Super Mario Bros. "warpless" in 18:36.78: 8 out of 74. I see you cancelled because inital no votes.
8 is probably way too many for a category like this. Usually I get zero. But this doesn't matter, at least it proves my point. Also thanks for your suggestions, but I've never asked everyone to like this run or anything. All I ask is less hate or whatever this run doesn't deserve. In one word, fairness.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2213)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1088
Location: US
HappyLee wrote:
The only victim has been our hard work.
Your work has not suffered in any way. Nothing anyone has already said or will ever say about that particular run can change the actual work you accomplished. Further, what others THINK about your work still does not change the work itself or the intrinsic value of that work for the site and TAS community. People are entitled to their own opinions whether or not you like, agree, or care about their opinions. From how this whole situation has transpired, it appears that you only care about other people's opinions if those opinions coincide with your own. You are continuing to whine and complain ONLY because others haven't LIKED you and your run as much as you think they should. The only "victim" has been your ego. EDIT: The yearly awards are a POPULARITY contest. If you can't accept that you and your run aren't more (or the most) popular run/TASer in our community, then it is again an ego problem not a problem with the community or site staff.
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
DrD2k9 wrote:
Your work has not suffered in any way.
Our work has suffered from negative comments, votes and ratings it doesn't deserve, and disrespect over the nomination period. It's the lowest-rating SMB TAS on TASVideos for many years. Our movie thread is still being locked (you can check how many Published movies threads are being locked) despite no violation of forum rules. Not to mention that I've been personally attacked many times, which I care the least, unlike "my ego" that you can't stop talking about.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Site Admin, Skilled player (1251)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
I don't know what you think you're achieving by repeating all the same things infinitely, but at this point it's blatantly obvious that it hasn't improved your situation in the slightest. And it won't.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Skilled player (1344)
Joined: 12/28/2013
Posts: 396
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Happylee, your run was absolutely deserving of this award and I personally voted for it, but SMB3 was really good too so I don't see at all an unfair result here. In my opinion, it would have been ridiculous if the obsolete SMB1 TAS ended up winning (or with more votes than the current one), but thankfully this didn't get even close to happen. Thus, I see with positivity the results of this poll - the majority of the site agreed with you and voted for your run instead of for the obsolete TAS, but SMB3 ended up being slightly more popular.
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVoUfT49xN9TU-gDMHv57sw Projects: SMW 96 exit. SDW any%, with Amaraticando. SMA2 SMW small only Kaizo Mario World 3
Expert player (2567)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 830
feos wrote:
I don't know what you think you're achieving by repeating all the same things infinitely, but at this point it's blatantly obvious that it hasn't improved your situation in the slightest. And it won't.
Maybe I was just being sentimental rather than achieving anything. Since the voting is over, and nobody's allowed to talk about our run anymore (due to the fact that our movie thread's still being locked, which everyone seems to be OK with except me), it's heartbreaking to see the best SMB TAS ever made (in my opinion) go down as the lowest-rating SMB TAS in many years, and Controversial TAS of 2018. I don't know if anyone but me thinks it's unfair, because our work hasn't earned any of this. Furthermore, the first step of fixing a problem is to admit that there is one. Over the year, our work has been under lots of siege (as we all see), with several haters deliberately making our run look bad (even till the award season). The community just let it happen, and I had to struggle to defend our work. This is not normal, and totally could have been handled better. I hate to be the only one who had to ask people to "vote rationally" and "nominate rationally", to argue about what makes an entertaining movie, to put facts over feelings and "personal taste", to have respect over one's work. I wish the community could come up with a better solution rather than shutting me up, because me shutting up doesn't solve the actual problem. This time it's me and our work under siege, the next time it could be others, and I don't want similar things ever happen again in this community.
BrunoVisnadi wrote:
Happylee, your run was absolutely deserving of this award and I personally voted for it, but SMB3 was really good too so I don't see at all an unfair result here. In my opinion, it would have been ridiculous if the obsolete SMB1 TAS ended up winning (or with more votes than the current one), but thankfully this didn't get even close to happen. Thus, I see with positivity the results of this poll - the majority of the site agreed with you and voted for your run instead of for the obsolete TAS, but SMB3 ended up being slightly more popular.
You're right, but that's not my point. I'm OK with SMB3 winning the award, and fortunately it doesn't have haters or has been under siege as we have, and that's perhaps the biggest difference.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Site Admin, Skilled player (1251)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
You're hoping to achieve that the community as a whole admits that it's been plotting against you or your movie. That it voted and argued in bad faith and let personal problems repress fairness of speed competition and joy from superplay. And you've been hoping to achieve this by completely refusing to admit that you did at least something wrong. I've been through countless arguments on this site, and in lots of them I managed to settle down the controversy. I can tell you from direct experience that it can only be done by using two methods: reason and compromise. When one wasn't succeeding, I tried the other, and most of the time both. I haven't seen a single argument won by ignorance. Every time ignorance was involved, there were victims. And once you see victims, be sure there's been some ignorance. Reason and compromise don't create victims. Reason helps when someone is just wrong, and compromise helps when someone is just different. If the community did something wrong, it only makes sense to admit this when there is a real, honest will for armistice from both sides. I know this situation inside out, I've seen it from all possible angles, and I can tell what each side did wrong.
  1. You've made a movie that you view as perfect in all possible aspects. I also consider it perfect, as I described in the submission thread. A lot of other people also really liked it. It objectively had those features we always try to inspire in movies. It was a very good product, objectively.
  2. When it was submitted, there were a few No votes, whose count was objectively quite low compared to the Yes votes. Under no rule or guideline this amount of No votes could lead to rejection or publishing the movie in Vault. The overall feedback was objectively good, which reflected the quality of the product. Silent No votes could not possibly harm or damage the fate of your movie. They were just noise.
  3. You presumed those No votes were left in bad faith, by people who have no objective reason to dislike your product. You presumed that since the movie is perfect, everyone should like it. And if someone doesn't, they're being irrational and/or biased.
  4. You got upset by whatever low amount of No votes was there. You somehow felt that not just some of your joy and proud towards your movie have been questioned, you felt that the entire point of all your work has been disqualified. This was already wrong. Aside from this noise and whatever subjectivity and irrationality stood behind it, there was nothing to really disqualify, as I described above.
  5. You called the silent No voters out and canceled your movie, hoping that people's minds can be read and their subjective feelings can be fixed by administration, or by boycotting their disagreement.
  6. This led to people seriously asking themselves if that movie was actually such a big deal, since even the minor noise couldn't be tolerated. Those who just disliked it were forced to post, those who liked it were forced to support it, and those who didn't really care were forced to participate. I say "forced", because you boycotted the few No votes that were there, protesting against them. Protest alone kills a whole lot of the joy that could otherwise be there if no one overreacted.
  7. This was the critical point. People who disliked it started to evaluate things harder, and some of them got distracted from the movie itself by your overreaction. This played a huge role in overall bias and irrationality involved, making things worse. They started questioning not only the movie, but also the activity around it, finding flaws in your actions and arguments. You're calling them haters.
  8. People who remained honest and expressed why they enjoyed MrWint's movie more, you confused with attackers and started attacking their points back. You thought that they weren't honestly disagreeing with your artistic choices, but that they were attacking the movie for no objective reason. It's been pointed out lots of times that while the overall product quality can be objectively good, it's absolutely impossible to also please everyone with it. There will always be people disliking it, for whatever subjective reasons. This is reality, this is okay, we allow it until it leads to abuse. If subjectivity is being abused maliciously, we take actions.
  9. You tried to make dislikers shut up, haters tried to make you shut up, the conversation lost its goal and everyone was just repeating the same things over and over, which was the reason why moderators asked everyone to calm down.
  10. You interpreted this as moderators also wanting you to shut up, protested against it by repeating the same things over and over. This led to locking the thread and caused your current signature.
  11. Meanwhile, your movie was published with logos not as beautiful, even strange. I don't know if you asked yourself why it was done that way, maybe you did and ended up blaming haters. I also asked myself whether I should step in as a senior publisher and ask for a nicer reencode. I haven't done it exactly because there was no will for armistice from any side.
  12. There have been some hard situations behind the scenes as well, I did everything I could to help resolving them, but I don't want to disclose anything.
Back to my original point. When someone is not wrong, just different, you can't convince them by using reason. They are different, their heritage, mentality, tastes are different, their reasons are different. In such cases you can only convince them by making compromises. Note that it does not mean giving up. No one should give up, no one should become a victim. Compromise means both side make concessions. When someone is just wrong, you can't convince them by repeating the same words over and over. Society doesn't work that way. People call this ignorance, and ignorance helps no one. When someone is just wrong, you have to dig deeper and deeper into objective aspects of the problem, finding reasons behind problems and possible solutions, for as long as needed. Only then you can convince someone logically. Conclusion. People severely followed misconceptions, argued in bad faith, protested in unhelpful ways. Everyone was wrong and no one remained 100% sane, otherwise it'd be already resolved, wouldn't it? We as a community can acknowledge that our vision was distorted by personal dislikes and we overreacted. You should also acknowledge that you overreacted and refused to tolerate harmless noise of No votes, and then repeatedly attacked those who disagreed with your artistic choices. Both sides looked ignorant to each other, and there was no solution, because there was no compromise. It's up to you to sign this apology.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.