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Posted: 4/10/2005 8:53 PM
Post subject: Ys 3 - Wanderers from Ys
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Mlandry
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 325
I was wondering if anyone was planning to make a run on this in the future or if someone had done one they never submitted before its pretty fun, its pretty hard.. i played it for the 1st time in years the other day and got owned by the 1st monsters O_o anyways, do you people think this would be an entertaining game to speedrun?
Posted: 4/11/2005 5:05 AM
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
It's one of the many many games I might possibly eventually get around to doing once I finish my current projects. The Genesis version is identical to the SNES version, right? My only two notes are to get the good swords as soon as possible and abuse the downward stab.
Posted: 4/11/2005 7:18 PM
(Edited: 5/29/2006 2:52 AM)
Post subject: 45
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Acmlm
Active player (494)
Joined: 11/14/2004
Posts: 169
Location: Mirabel, Québec, Canada
There's the NES version too, I made a partial run of it before (goes up to the end of the Lava Pit in 18 minutes): http://acmlm.cjb.net:2/emu/nes/fceu/fcs/Ys%20III%20-%20Wanderers%20From%20Ys%20%28J%29%202.fcm Not bad, but there's a few spots where I have to run back and forth for a few minutes to gain levels, else I can't hit the boss ... The downwards stab is definitely useful, at least as a finishing hit (double damage but I get hit if I don't kill), and I buy the 3rd sword (Broad Sword?) as soon as I get out of the first dungeon, which helps a lot after. I also use the Power Ring against the bosses to kill them fast and take damage to save time (although it doesn't take much to die). I haven't looked at the SNES and Genesis versions (although I did play the SNES one really long ago), so I don't know which one would be the best to make a run of ... I think only the SNES one even had any American release.
Posted: 4/11/2005 7:49 PM
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quietkane
Player (66)
Joined: 3/29/2005
Posts: 229
Location: The boonies.
Nope. There's a Genesis version of it. Ys 3 - Wanderer from Ys (U) [!].bin I've never played the Genesis version of this, but from what I see, the Snes version is a little cleaner. It's probably better to do the run with that one, unless you can find a useful glitch in the Genesis version. Never finished the game, so I don't know if it'd make an interesting run or not. I guess it depends on how optimized you can make it. Good luck if you give it a shot.
If life were an RPG, I'd be an NPC.
Posted: 4/11/2005 10:56 PM
Post subject: 46
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Acmlm
Active player (494)
Joined: 11/14/2004
Posts: 169
Location: Mirabel, Québec, Canada
Ok, I looked at them now (got to the 2nd boss on SNES, 1st boss on Genesis), so I can compare them better: - Different English translation for SNES and Genesis (some different names too) - The areas are generally the same in all versions, the plot too - Monsters have different acting patterns and aren't always at the same spot - Leveling (EXP per monster and required per level) is different in all versions NES: - Japanese only, or at least no official translation - Crawling and running have the same speed - The intro can be skipped by picking an empty save slot instead of New Game - HP is fully restored on level up - Simpler monster patterns - Fastest boss fights - Monsters only come back when scrolled out and back in - Left+Right causes a glitch that allows to skip monsters and return to town (if you go through a wall and fall down), but it's not very useful - Doesn't look as good as on SNES and Genesis (obviously), but still nice for a NES game SNES: - Crawling is slower than running - Shorter levels, but smaller stat gains per level up - HP isn't restored at all on level up - Attacking is slower - Monsters can come back even when you don't move - Slower equipment switching - Bosses seem harder Genesis: - Crawling is slower than running (like on SNES) - Same level length as on NES, but monsters give less EXP - HP is restored by the max HP increase amount on level up - Attacking seems fast but the sword is invisible - Monsters are hittable at lower levels - Monsters don't seem to come back until you leave the area and go back in (although I'd have to confirm this, didn't test it much) - Ring power lasts longer - Bosses take longer to kill (at least the first one) Seems like the NES version would be the fastest of them ...
Posted: 4/11/2005 11:21 PM
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Mlandry
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 325
seems so, thought the way you put it SNES one is like thrice as hard O_o so then you gotta keep in mind is it played at hardest "difficulty" =p well i suppose it should be done on NES then if that list is correct since SNES has a lot of disadvantages
Posted: 4/12/2005 5:07 AM
Post subject: Re: 46
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
Acmlm wrote:
Genesis: - Attacking seems fast but the sword is invisible
If you have a shield and armor it's visible.
Posted: 5/26/2005 5:09 AM
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todd
Joined: 4/4/2004
Posts: 66
I'd like to see a run of this game. I'd prefer to see the Turbo CD versions of all of the Ys games done, because those versions have fantastic soundtracks. Unfortunately, a rerecording emulator doesn't yet exist for that system. Therefore, I agree that the NES version is the best second choice.
Posted: 6/21/2005 4:04 PM
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keith_phillips
Joined: 6/21/2005
Posts: 20
I started to take a shot at the Genesis version of this for a few hours last night, since it was pretty much my all time favorite game. :) I didn't make it far, just past the first 2 bosses at level 1 or 2 with just the Long Sword. It wasn't too bad it only took a couple of minutes, but will need to be redone because some of the work was quick and sloppy. The only problem I forsee is not being able to damage things very well at extremely low levels, but I wanted to avoid leveling up if at all possible for speed. The boss fights get a little drawn out since you really just shave away at their HP, though I think using the Power Ring on and off in really rapid succession before the hits may help a bit. Any suggestions, or is levelling up acceptable if all attacks are nearly perfect, with no missed swings or getting hit at all? Its been MANY years since I finished this game on the original Genesis, so I don't know if there is anything that really needs some major planning... I don't want to put a lot of hours in and find out at some point that something cannot be defeated without X amount of levels, for example. :( I think it would be an entertaining run, going through and not getting hit, etc. considering the well placed jumps and attacks are fairly mindblowing to watch in real time.
http://solar-sound.com/
Posted: 6/21/2005 5:10 PM
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
I *highly* reccommend leveling. Boss battles will last for a very long time otherwise.
Posted: 6/21/2005 8:33 PM
Post subject: 54
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Acmlm
Active player (494)
Joined: 11/14/2004
Posts: 169
Location: Mirabel, Québec, Canada
In the NES version, some leveling is required just to hit the bosses (Level 3 for the first, then Level 4), so I had to spend a few minutes going back and forth to gain EXP and gold ... but then the boss battles went pretty fast even at the minimum level (using the Power Ring, which however takes a few seconds to switch on and off). The Genesis version had lower level requirements (if any), so maybe it can be beaten without any forced leveling ... it'd most likely save more time than being able to beat the bosses faster. Killing every monster in the way helps minimizing the leveling required, and there's the Broad Sword you can buy after the first dungeon if you spent enough time leveling (like I did) ... it helps a lot in the second dungeon. I still haven't worked back on my run of the NES version (still available from the link up there), and I want to improve the long leveling part before the second boss anyway since the Power Ring would save time there. But I'd like to see a run on SNES or Genesis too to see the differences ...
Posted: 6/21/2005 8:38 PM
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keith_phillips
Joined: 6/21/2005
Posts: 20
I was able to hit the purple gargoyle type boss at level 1 or 2, but it was very slow, you took about a sliver away per hit, and I was able to get 3 hits per lightning attack, but it still took a bit of time. This was without the ring. The boss fights do take less time than leveling though. I will play around a bit more and see what is possible, but its quite time consuming since the movement is very fast and twitchy in that game on Genesis. It wouldn't be pixel-perfect thing by any means, that would easily take over 150,000 re-records maybe even more. Would take months to pull off if you spent hours per day IMO. :(
http://solar-sound.com/
Posted: 6/21/2005 8:44 PM
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keith_phillips
Joined: 6/21/2005
Posts: 20
I'm almost half tempted to run a Game Genie invincibility run through and test level-ups near the end of the game to see how feasible a low-level run is, or a "preferred minimum" for still being able to damage near-endgame bosses... Any low-level run in this game would nearly have to be a no-hit run as well! My major complaint is just that most movements how ever many times you redo them, even frame by frame, almost never wants to be pixel perfect; that and for some reason the menus and dialogs are extremely laggy trying to register button presses in frame step modes... Not sure if I am doing them wrong or not...
http://solar-sound.com/
Posted: 8/29/2005 12:34 AM
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Enhasa
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
keith_phillips wrote:
I'm almost half tempted to run a Game Genie invincibility run through and test level-ups near the end of the game to see how feasible a low-level run is, or a "preferred minimum" for still being able to damage near-endgame bosses...
I actually tried a low-level run on the SNES version before using zsnes. I gave up when I couldn't damage the harpy boss without leveling.
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
Posted: 8/29/2005 3:33 AM
Post subject: 72
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Acmlm
Active player (494)
Joined: 11/14/2004
Posts: 169
Location: Mirabel, Québec, Canada
My run of the NES version progressed some more since then, I'm about halfway through (after 27:59): http://acmlm.cjb.net:2/emu/nes/fceu/fcs/Ys3-1.fcm 00:43 - Intro over, I can move and buy the Short Sword 01:19 - Entering Tigray Quarry 02:03 - Got the Power Ring 02:20 to 02:45 - Leveling (I need Level 2 to hit the red monsters) 02:51 - Level 2 03:34 - Got the key to the first boss 04:07 to 05:24 - Leveling (I need Level 3 to hit the boss) 05:34 - Level 3 05:50 - Defeated the 1st boss 07:13 to 11:01 - Leveling (I need Level 4 for the next boss, and 8000 gold for the Broad Sword) 09:38 - Level 4 11:14 - Defeated the 2nd boss 11:52 - Back to town, I buy the Broad Sword 12:54 - Entering Ilvern Ruins 14:20 - Into the Lava Pit 15:11 - Level 5 (just in time for the boss, which was already killable on Level 4 with the sword) 15:21 - Defeated the 3rd boss 17:24 - Out of the Lava Pit 18:34 - Defeated the 4th boss 19:25 - Back to town 20:34 - Entering Tigray Quarry again to get to the deeper dungeon part 21:02 - Level 6 (just in time) 21:27 to 23:22 - Leveling (I need Level 7 to hit the boss) 24:32 - Level 7 24:54 - Defeated the 5th boss (this one was too easy) 25:24 - Back to town (using the left+right glitch, to avoid backtracking through the entire dungeon) 25:44 - Going to Tigray Quarry one last time to advance the game plot (what would normally happen after the backtracking) 26:45 - Entering Eldan Mountains 27:30 - Reached the cabin, got the Banded Slayer Planned next was: - Going back for more leveling, to get all the way to Level 9 (30000 EXP). The next boss is killable at 8 but with very low damage per hit, so it's worth doing the extra leveling. This should also be the last time I have to do this, since the bosses alone will give almost enough EXP for the rest. - Beat both bosses in the mountains. 3000 + 3500 EXP, I should at least be close to Level 10 (40000) after this - Ballacetine Castle: just go through and beat the bosses, Level 10 will be enough and I'll get the best sword. 4000 + 4500 + 5000 EXP for the bosses, I'll reach Level 11 (50000) and maybe get halfway to 12 - Galbalan's Island: final dungeon, I should get to Level 12 (65535, max) and beat the final boss About 25% of the run up to the current progress is forced leveling (running back and forth for required level ups), worst part being almost 4 minutes, it's boring and repetitive but unavoidable ... however, the boss fights go very fast and are the best parts to watch. Regular monsters also get more interesting later in the game when they're harder to kill. I also almost never get hit since I'd die very fast, I only do against bosses or when I'm about to level up since it refills completely after.
Posted: 5/28/2006 9:29 PM
(Edited: 5/29/2006 2:06 AM)
Post subject: Ys III: Wanderers from Ys
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InertiaticSP
Joined: 3/30/2006
Posts: 12
Today I decided to browse through the List of Ideas. I stumbled upon Ys III and thought "Hey, I've heard of it." So I downloaded it earlier and started playing through. 4 hours later I'm just about ready to TAS it. I'll first make a runthrough using the Debug cheat to plan an effective path, and to see how early I can kill the bosses with speed and precision. After I get a path down, I'll start the actual TAS. I'm estimating that the game will clock in at about an hour, due to the fact that most enemies are invincible until you hit a certain strength level, so I'll have to spend some time levelling up, which might be a bit boring. I'll post a (VERY) quick run to the Quarry soon to keep you "entertained" while I work on my path. Edit: All WIPs will be in the post below. All comments, good and bad, are appreciated.
Currently working on: (All Consoles) Improving my TAS abilities (GBA) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Future runs: (SNES) Ys III: Wanderers From Ys
Posted: 5/28/2006 10:06 PM
(Edited: 5/29/2006 11:33 AM)
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InertiaticSP
Joined: 3/30/2006
Posts: 12
This post is meant to be edited with every new WIP. Old WIPS: WIP 1 - Intro to Quarry. WIP 2 - Intro to Power Ring. Mistakes fixed. WIP 3 - Intro through levelling up (I believe). Some notes on the current WIP: 1. After completely redoing the run with Acmlm's comments, I decided the game is much too hard for a first-timer like me. Below is my feeble attempt to fight through the Quarry without armor or a shield. 2. You'll notice a blaringly large random session of movements before I start levelling up. I don't know why I did this. Frankly, after reviewing this WIP, I almost deemed it unsatisfactory to post. Once I get back to work, I'll redo the levelling up section, after I master a quicker method that I only pulled off once (seen in my 3rd WIP). This should hopefully level me up to 4, which (after I go back and recharge my ring), will kill off Dulan a bit quicker. 3. I wish I could land between the two slimes, but I have to waste some ring power to kill off the first one, then the other one on the way back. 4. Overall, I didn't like this run through. The huge time loss before levelling up did it for me. I also screwed up and got hit way too many times. I should've killed more enemies on the way to my level up point. Yeah, I have a list of complaints against my own run. Here is the current WIP.
Currently working on: (All Consoles) Improving my TAS abilities (GBA) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Future runs: (SNES) Ys III: Wanderers From Ys
Posted: 5/29/2006 1:19 AM
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Oddity
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
Cool. I was just thinking about this game yesterday. So, that mistake in the WIP is going to be corrected? Or kept forever?
<^>v AB X LR s
Posted: 5/29/2006 1:40 AM
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InertiaticSP
Joined: 3/30/2006
Posts: 12
Oddity wrote:
So, that mistake in the WIP is going to be corrected? Or kept forever?
I'm working on a new WIP as I speak that corrects that mistake, along with my biggest mistake of not recharging my ring power (that mistake alone would cost me over a minute). I'll probably have it up in a half hour or so.
Currently working on: (All Consoles) Improving my TAS abilities (GBA) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Future runs: (SNES) Ys III: Wanderers From Ys
Posted: 5/29/2006 3:36 AM
Post subject: 103
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Acmlm
Active player (494)
Joined: 11/14/2004
Posts: 169
Location: Mirabel, Québec, Canada
I got halfway through in the NES version last year, and there was another thread about this game here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2081 About a hour for the completed run sounds right, at least for the NES version ... some differences between each (NES, SNES, Genesis) could change things, so the planning wouldn't be the same for SNES. Either way, here's what I noticed for now: - I didn't recharge ring power, since most monsters die fast enough already and full power only lasts 1-2 minutes ... I just kept it for bosses, but did use it while leveling on a monster that took 12 hits (it was about 70% full by then). I'm just not sure the time it takes to recharge and switch rings (and go back several times) is shorter than what you save by killing in less hits, but then I haven't tested it ... - You bought an armor and shield, while I only went for swords, is it worth surviving a few more hits? I never got hit except against bosses (refills HP when defeated) and just before gaining a level (refills HP on NES), just about anything would kill me in about 3 hits. Also, spending more means it'll take longer to get enough gold for the Broad Sword ... - Since you'd have to spend time walking back and forth for leveling anyway, wouldn't it be faster to kill the monsters in the way before getting the ring (to make it shorter after), or do they really take too long for that? (this was before watching WIP 2, which I'll do now)
Posted: 5/29/2006 3:46 AM
Post subject: Re: 103
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InertiaticSP
Joined: 3/30/2006
Posts: 12
Acmlm wrote:
- I didn't recharge ring power, since most monsters die fast enough already and full power only lasts 1-2 minutes ... I just kept it for bosses, but did use it while leveling on a monster that took 12 hits (it was about 70% full by then). I'm just not sure the time it takes to recharge and switch rings (and go back several times) is shorter than what you save by killing in less hits, but then I haven't tested it ... - You bought an armor and shield, while I only went for swords, is it worth surviving a few more hits? I never got hit except against bosses (refills HP when defeated) and just before gaining a level (refills HP on NES), just about anything would kill me in about 3 hits. Also, spending more means it'll take longer to get enough gold for the Broad Sword ... - Since you'd have to spend time walking back and forth for leveling anyway, wouldn't it be faster to kill the monsters in the way before getting the ring (to make it shorter after), or do they really take too long for that?
For point 1, I might take that into consideration. I'll run a couple tests to see how much time they take. For point 2, I realized this after reading your topic (I read through it a couple hours ago). For now, I'd like to keep the armor and shield, seeing as though I only started playing the game today. If I decide to improve the run (which I most likely will), I'll skip buying the armor and shield. Also, if you haven't seen already, gaining a level doesn't refill HP. I'd be a lot happier if it did, and I'd probably get a lot more done. For point 3, it would be faster, and I could save some ring power for the boss. I might restart the entire run due to this, but it's a risk I'm willing to take for the essence of speed. Thank you, Acmlm.
Currently working on: (All Consoles) Improving my TAS abilities (GBA) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Future runs: (SNES) Ys III: Wanderers From Ys
Posted: 5/29/2006 4:03 AM
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Mlandry
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 325
"I might restart the entire run due to this, but it's a risk I'm willing to take for the essence of speed. Thank you, Acmlm." You should start by finishing one run and doing another with changes you think would be faster it will probably take you 2 test runs before you know what's the absolute fastest way to beat the game, unless you plan on restarting a lot
Posted: 5/29/2006 4:23 AM
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InertiaticSP
Joined: 3/30/2006
Posts: 12
Mlandry wrote:
You should start by finishing one run and doing another with changes you think would be faster it will probably take you 2 test runs before you know what's the absolute fastest way to beat the game, unless you plan on restarting a lot
I've restarted the run many times already. My goal is to make a good run my first time through. It's probably not going to end up that way, seeing as this is my first TAS (although I tend to practice during normal play), and the first time I played this game was about 10 hours ago. My goal for right now is to keep you people occupied with a slew of WIPs so I don't have anyone complaining until I get a path down. I'm taking every suggestion I get and creating some WIPs to see which is better. The WIP I'm working on right now is what seems to be the fastest so far, although I'll still probably need to run back to recharge my ring before the boss, due to the fact that the slime enemies can't be hurt at level 3 without the Power Ring. Keep making suggestions, people. They really help newbies like me ^_^
Currently working on: (All Consoles) Improving my TAS abilities (GBA) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Future runs: (SNES) Ys III: Wanderers From Ys
Posted: 5/29/2006 11:20 AM
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InertiaticSP
Joined: 3/30/2006
Posts: 12
Quick reply to end my obsessive editing spree: I'm delaying this run until I grasp more of a concept of TASes and how much work they'll take. So far I've rarely used frame advance (only during menus, text, and nearly inescapable situations), and I'm clocking an unusually high number of rerecords (at least for me, I've made fullspeed runs of 30 minutes plus with less than 100 rerecords, and this run's only about 5 minutes with about 400). I'm still a newbie at this, of course, though I often tend to practice during normal emulator play, and I often take notes on other peoples' runs in case I ever plan on an improvement (which I might end up doing someday for Aria of Sorrow). Feel free to watch my WIPs and continue to add comments, I'll try to answer every one. I'll continue working on this sometime over summer. I know it's hard to see a run go down this quickly, but I jumped the gun by choosing an exceptionally difficult game to TAS (the levelling system did it for me), and by starting a TAS about 4 hours after playing the game the first time. If someone else wants to do this run, by all means, go ahead.
Currently working on: (All Consoles) Improving my TAS abilities (GBA) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Future runs: (SNES) Ys III: Wanderers From Ys
Posted: 5/29/2006 5:36 PM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
InertiaticSP wrote:
I'm clocking an unusually high number of rerecords
Check the rerecord count per playtime of most other movies here...
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
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