Boss Hp RAM Addresses: 065A, 065B, 065C, 065D, 065E, 065F
feos: Boss fights make this game non-trivial to TAS, even though the levels are mostly autoscrollers. The routing seems to be justified, and checking other route choices will require redoing most of the run. Since there's no known routing improvement as of now, this movie is fine.
Even though more creative cursor movements and timings could introduce more style to this run, it'd still be too repetitive overall due to gameplay that's mostly fixed, and not enough variety being possible. Feedback supports this notion. Accepting to Vault.
fsvgm777: Processing. Zinfidel is handling the encodes for this one.
Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 587
Location: Azerbaijan, Baku
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Wouldn't be faster to use the Zapper?
I tried it in start and with Zapper game uses more frames for "Fire" than B button so I decided to use regular controller. Also these screen flashings from Zapper is annoying. Let it be "non-Zapper" category
Joined: 1/24/2018
Posts: 309
Location: Stafford, NY
XTREMAL93 wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Wouldn't be faster to use the Zapper?
I tried it in start and with Zapper game uses more frames for "Fire" than B button so I decided to use regular controller. Also these screen flashings from Zapper is annoying. Let it be "non-Zapper" category
The Speedrun.com leaderboards for this game also have the regular controller as faster than Zapper, so the regular controller should be the preferred input method.
c-square wrote:
Yes, standard runs are needed and very appreciated here too
Dylon Stejakoski wrote:
Me and the boys starting over our games of choice for the infinityieth time in a row because of just-found optimizations
^ Why I don't have any submissions despite being on the forums for years now...
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
XTREMAL93 wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Wouldn't be faster to use the Zapper?
I tried it in start and with Zapper game uses more frames for "Fire" than B button so I decided to use regular controller. Also these screen flashings from Zapper is annoying. Let it be "non-Zapper" category
This is interesting. I suppose its use introduces lag? Or just the routine of the zapper processing the spot emitted by the TV is a bit more heavy?
GJTASer2018 wrote:
The Speedrun.com leaderboards for this game also have the regular controller as faster than Zapper, so the regular controller should be the preferred input method.
I'm a little confused by your statement. The only two runs on speedrun.com show both to be using the "Zapper". It seems that you are stating that the preferred controller to use for this TAS would be to use the "D-Pad"? If so, I agree, otherwise I disagree with the use of the zapper, according to XTREMAL93's investigation. As with any TASes...the requirement should be to use the fastest method.
...and finally for XTREMAL93:
My first thought..."This is purely an auto scroller". After comparing this to the speedruns for this game, I see now that the only time saved is at the end of each round, or a mid-way point that holds up the game for each so-called mission, mini-boss, or final boss.
Honestly, I see that most of this game is trivial...in the sense that TASing this is easy to predict the emergence of enemies. It almost seems like the patterns are scripted. The only question I have is....Are these emerging enemies a result of RNG? The re-record count seems to suggest so, but that still doesn't completely prove it.
Aside from all the above, this TAS does exhibit parts that are done extremely fast over the human runs. The difference between the RTA WR and this TAS is roughly 6 minutes.
Yes vote for separating the two so clearly.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
nymx wrote:
I'm a little confused by your statement. The only two runs on speedrun.com show both to be using the "Zapper".
There are 2 tabs, with 2 runs for each category. The difference from a d-pad record is about 2:40, but that's still a decent gap for a semi-autoscroller.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 587
Location: Azerbaijan, Baku
nymx wrote:
This is interesting. I suppose its use introduces lag? Or just the routine of the zapper processing the spot emitted by the TV is a bit more heavy?
with Zapper after every "Fire" you need indicate coordinates which waste frames
nymx wrote:
I'm a little confused by your statement. The only two runs on speedrun.com show both to be using the "Zapper". It seems that you are stating that the preferred controller to use for this TAS would be to use the "D-Pad"? If so, I agree, otherwise I disagree with the use of the zapper, according to XTREMAL93's investigation. As with any TASes...the requirement should be to use the fastest method.
As said feos there are 2 tabs: Any% Zapper and Any%nymx wrote:
Honestly, I see that most of this game is trivial...in the sense that TASing this is easy to predict the emergence of enemies. It almost seems like the patterns are scripted. The only question I have is....Are these emerging enemies a result of RNG? The re-record count seems to suggest so, but that still doesn't completely prove it. Aside from all the above, this TAS does exhibit parts that are done extremely fast over the human runs. The difference between the RTA WR and this TAS is roughly 6 minutes.
Yes vote for separating the two so clearly.
yea, it was not so hard to TAS it. Enemies totally scripted, there is no RNG for them. I don't know exactly how re-record count works in TAStudio. When i see enemy appears i rewind game and direct aim to enemy's spawn location to kill them straightway. I thinks it is the reason of re-records. Also there some routes to play the levels, you can finish the game by 6 or 7 levels. I don't know what criteria Speedrunners used to choose levels, but i think my is the fastest. I played 6 levels because it is not interesting game for TAS (but i also can make 7 levels version by any request). I did this TAS just for our Community collection. I don't purport for Moons / Stars, just for Vault))
And Thank you for voting)
I couldn't even watch the whole thing without skipping around so No Vote on entertainment.
From a quick glance, while most the game is on rails, it does appear at least some segments can be sped up and have some optimization to them, which should be enough for the game to be acceptable in my opinion.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
When I first saw this game, a number of similar shooters came to mind. Operation Wolf (no TAS available) is the most similar, since Mechanized Attack was likely meant to capitalize on that game’s arcade and critical success. Cabal (also no TAS available) is on the more entertaining side for the shooting gallery type of game. Unfortunately the closest TASes are Gotcha! The Sport! and Lethal Enforcers, both of which have very low entertainment ratings. Mechanized Attack is fairly low on entertainment as well, but on the positive side, the game doesn’t take too long and the stages have variety.
The shooting looks quick visually. Compare the tank fight (5:15 in the video) of this TAS with the real-time speedrun record, and it becomes obvious that the game is not trivial. For the final boss, I looked at alternating between shots and grenades in an attempt to avoid blank frames between each attack, but that idea is clearly slower. The input seems well-optimized.
Although the game was not a big seller nor particularly well-liked, the Vault exists for this type of game. It comes from a notable publisher (SNK) and is one of the few third-party NES Zapper games. It has a place in history worth documenting.
BRAAM! Another game completed for TASMania.
Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 587
Location: Azerbaijan, Baku
Arc wrote:
For the final boss, I looked at alternating between shots and grenades in an attempt to avoid blank frames between each attack, but that idea is clearly slower.
In final boss, the brain is invulnerable until u don't destroyed 4 rocket launchers around it. and u can damage them only when they open. Grenades more powerful and have wider damage area so by 1 grenade u can damage all 4 rocket launchers. I tried with assault gun too, but it's slower
When I first saw this was an autoscroller, it made me seriously question whether there was really any opportunity to showcase the TAS aspect. The screen doesn't seem to move any faster if you kill enemies earlier of later at least most of the time. I didn't see any lag when watching the file, so lag management isn't a major consideration. The fact that enemy spawns are fixed also kind of adds to it's triviality.
Based off of that, I figured there wouldn't be much opportunity to save or lose time, but looking at the leaderboards on speedruns.com, the gap between 1st and 2nd place is surprisingly large. It looks like there's a lot more opportunity to save or lose time than I thought. I might wonder whether all the time save might just come from being able to fire faster, but I believe that there may be enough there for this to qualify for Vault.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Please elaborate on your level routing, what is selected and why. Is there a way to skip Cave? Level options visible in RTA are not the same as here.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 587
Location: Azerbaijan, Baku
feos wrote:
Please elaborate on your level routing, what is selected and why. Is there a way to skip Cave? Level options visible in RTA are not the same as here.
answer isXTREMAL93 wrote:
Also there some routes to play the levels, you can finish the game by 6 or 7 levels. I don't know what criteria Speedrunners used to choose levels and played 7 levels, but i think my is the fastest. I played 6 levels because it is not interesting game for TAS.
And if u need i also can make 7 levels version like in speedruns
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
I've read that and it doesn't answer my questions.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
You visit Cave after Tank, not Dark Jungle. And by how long it takes, I question if that route is actually better for a TAS.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 587
Location: Azerbaijan, Baku
feos wrote:
You visit Cave after Tank, not Dark Jungle. And by how long it takes, I question if that route is actually better for a TAS.
yes, sorry, i don't know level names.
Routes after tank:
TANK - CAVE - FACTORY
TANK - SEWER - TRAIN - FACTORY
so by selecting Cave after Tank i skip 1 level. I realized it only after making TAS
