Usually X wears his armor and throws his special weapons on the bosses, well how about he discards all that?!
Mega Man X2 "X-Buster only, no upgrades" in 36:03.32
Run details:
Takes damage to save time
Low% completion (no upgrades)
No sub-weapons usage (X-Buster only)
Aims for fastest time
Manipulates luck
General overview
Ever since my oldsubmissions of Mega Man X2, I have always wanted to work on a new run for this game. At the time, I didn't have a solid experience with TASing, which is why I wasn't optimal in my TAS projects. By time, I learned more from my mistakes and understood how TASing works. Now, thanks to the efforts of staff regarding the diversity of TASes, I thought this would be a great time to work on an X2 TAS with a different category. It was a very fun project to work on and the result received good response!
This run aims at beating Mega Man X2 with X-Buster only and no upgrades. At first, I went with the buster upgrade, however, I felt it will be a bit similar to Any% in some places, thus I opted for the Low% restriction. Of course, the more restrictions, the longer the run gets, however currently there aren't any armor-less runs, so this was a good opportunity to add it to the site.
In other categories, routing matters more as it can save a lot of time if chosen well. While in this category it may look insignificant (as we will only use X-Buster and no other weapons), it still matters, because the Counter Hunters appear after two stages beaten. They appear in different stages, but you beat the stage they're in without fighting them, they disappear forever, which saves some time during stage select. The route was crafted to make CHs disappear as fast as possible
The route taken was Sponge -> Centipede -> Stag -> Gator -> Snail -> Ostrich -> Crab -> Moth.
Stage by stage comments
Intro and Wire Sponge
Same as current Any%. There was some lag here and there due to the usage of a more accurate emulator.
Magna Centipede
Comparing this to FractalFusion's best ending and no upgrades run, it's pretty much similar in most places. However, he used Speed Burner against the second mini boss, which we can't use in this run. This makes the fight longer as it's not weak to dash lemons and has 32 HP. The good news is that its i-frames are pretty short (about 30 frames).
The Centipede fight is faster here because of the tailspin glitch which is newer. It saves time by not allowing Centipede to teleport, nor having to waste frames for no teleport animation manip.
Flame Stag
It went similar to FractalFusion's run, with usage of the wall trick that allows kicking in same direction as the right walls (works only on right walls).
Wheel Gator
Lack of Chain Strike usage definitely showed huge difference here, mainly in the Gator fight as he immediately sinks down as soon as the fight starts. Now, in other categories, this fight usually ends quickly with 10-11 Chain Strikes, as it prevents him from sinking, but here, we wait for him to come back up so the fight actually begins. I manipulated RNG so he only throws one wheel on the wall as it's faster. This shows his other patterns that are absent from other TASes and speedruns.
Crystal Snail
Since we can't use the Speed Burner, we can't do the mini boss skip the usual way, so we use the ride armor as an alternative way to skip the mini boss. It's generally slower but it's still faster than fighting the mini boss with buster only, plus it's nice to show it off here.
Snail fight is completely different. He immediately hides in his shell if you fire a lemon on him asap, thus I started the fight with a charged shot instead. After that, he responds to each shot by throwing some freezing crystals, four times, then he hides in his shell and goes up whether you like it or not xD. The position he stops at and the amount of time he stays hidden are completely RNG. To make the fight 3 cycles only (5-6-5 or 5-5-6 where each number indicates the amount of dash lemons per cycle), I manipulated two patterns: One where he goes up and stops at the center of right wall, which gives 5 shots and the other where he stops at the top. The latter pattern is mandatory as it allows shooting him twice before he starts throwing his freezing crystals, giving us 6 shots instead.
Overdrive Ostrich
Standard stage overall. Ostrich fight was crafted so I can skip three i-frames cycles, saving 3 seconds.
Bubble Crab
The submarine can cause a lot of lag and also troublesome, so I tried to destroy its scanner so it doesn't shoot its beam and disrupt the X's falling speed. Crab's fight went normal with consecutive dash lemons and some RNG manipulations to prevent his bubble covering pattern.
Morph Moth
Standard stage here as well. Moth's fight though was annoying as the moth is not weak to dash lemons and causes so much lag, so I had to use charged buster more often. It's the only one that has this issue at least.
Counter Hunter 1: Violen
Violen's fight went incredible. While he's not weak to dash lemons, I was able to manipulate his patterns and force him to stay in his place. This allows the CF-0 to work perfectly where I shoot a lemon from the leftmost of the screen to prepare the charged as early as possible, making the fight faster and look nicer!
Counter Hunter 2: Serges
Serges fight was hard to optimize. While he's weak to dash lemons, the fact that he goes against your vertical position makes it hard to throw all shots in time. Fortunately, I managed to shot in time all 16 shots, but I had to land at the lower platform which can cost some frames. I decided to just land on the spikes instead for fun (it costs 2 frames only!)
Counter Hunter 3: Agile
Agile is also not weak to dash lemons, and because he moves more frequently, the CF-0 trick is useless, so I just opted for consecutive charged shots.
Refights
I had the idea that the order of refights didn't matter much as long as I get good start, however Akiteru mentioned that Crystal Snail's spinning animation before the fight starts can vary and thus may cost some frames. Not knowing that in time probably made me lose some frames.
Final stage
Zero is not weak to lemons and only takes 1 damage from fully charged shot similar to green shot, though the green shot prepares in 20 frames while fully charged shot takes 80 frames to prepare. I opted to just use the green shot 32 times :)
Wolverine Sigma's fight was heavily dependent on RNG where I need him to slash after every green shot, as he takes 2 damage from it. The special part about it is that he's vulnerable to it immediately after he attempts to slash, making the fight go faster. Thanks to FractalFusion for showing it in his no upgrades TAS.
Wireframe fight is why this run became 36 minutes xD. It has 64 HP, it's only weak to fully charged shot, and takes only 1 damage from it. On top of that, it throws various enemies which can cause lag, making the fight take even more time. The run could have been a 34 minutes run without this fight haha.
Possible improvements
Due to the usage of a more accurate core (BSNES v115), a lot of lag is generated throughout the run. Sometimes it may cost frames when trying to reduce lag but there might be instances where lag can be reduced and save some frames.
Testing for Snail spinning duration in refights may save some time so that should be taken into consideration when improving this run.
Morph Moth's first fight can probably go faster by a second or so if done similarly to the one in the refight.
Some other spots I'm not aware of.
Special thanks
FractalFusion: For his "best ending, no upgrades" run as it was a great run to refer to time to time when possible, despite it being over a decade old.
Akiteru: He provided many info and points to pay attention to while also sharing his feedback constantly on the WIPs I shared in the Discord server.
All Mega Man X2 TASers
You: For reading this submission and watching.
See you in another X-Buster only TAS..... Stay tuned!
CoolHandMike: Fun submission with an unusual goal that is not dissimilar to a low% tas. However, in this while he has to get the minimum upgrades he does not actually use them. Optimization looks good throughout.
Accepting to Alternative for goal "X-Buster only, no upgrades".
I would have preferred just "X-Buster only" (without "no upgrades"), because there are some cool things you can do with the X-Buster upgrade which are unfortunately missing in this TAS. Also, the final boss wouldn't take so long.
At 11:20, it seems the crystal skip found in other TASes is missing here, unless there is some reason low% buster-only can't do it.
Other than that, I know boss RNG is tough, but I'm pretty sure there are faster manipulations for Morph Moth to reduce both his lag junk phase as well as his invincibility phase.
I would have preferred just "X-Buster only" (without "no upgrades"), because there are some cool things you can do with the X-Buster upgrade which are unfortunately missing in this TAS. Also, the final boss wouldn't take so long.
Well, I started making the run with the upgrade first, however, I thought it will be similar to current Any% in many places, hence why I added the no upgrades restriction. It felt more challenging and different than all current TASes. Also, aside from your best ending TAS, there are no low% ones on the site, so this was a good opportunity to represent that. I'd continue the run with buster upgrade if most people want to see it :)
FractalFusion wrote:
At 11:20, it seems the crystal skip found in other TASes is missing here, unless there is some reason low% buster-only can't do it.
Yep, from researching, you can only do crystal skip if you have buster upgrade and you shoot the pink charged shot while jumping from the ground while moving non-stop until the crystal is skipped.
FractalFusion wrote:
Other than that, I know boss RNG is tough, but I'm pretty sure there are faster manipulations for Morph Moth to reduce both his lag junk phase as well as his invincibility phase.
Most of the lag came from more accurate core (BSNES v115). Even in places where shouldn't be lag frames, I get few of them. As for moth, yeah probably first fight can be faster as I noticed that in the refights, but I'm not sure the invincibility phase is skippable.
Did you verify that the movement in a few of these sections is optimal? I wasn't expecting you to have to double kick in the CH2 elevator, and you didn't alternate walls in the CH4 climb. There are some notes on the X1 Sig 4 climb in the buster only TAS that may be worth looking at.
I don't think you got the fastest shell spin pattern in the Snail refight. The spin speed you get is based on the global timer, and the cycle of patterns repeats every 8 frames. I would recommend doing Centipede first, and then checking Snail after each refight to attempt to get the fastest shell spin without having to waste frames to manipulate it.
Nice Wolverine fight, I wasn't sure how much of a pain it would be to manipulate swipes but I guess it's possible to force them in a buster only scenario? In any% you have to manipulate 7 swipes in a row purely from RNG, so it's nice to see it wasn't so bad here.
Overall nice job, I think there are things that can be done to reduce lag even if the baseline amount of lag is higher on v115 (minor movement variations like jump heights, shooting lemons, for example). A lot of the lag in the wireframe fight is caused by movement and inputs as well, for example holding 3+ buttons at the same time can cause lag. It might be possible to reduce a lot/all of the lag on wireframe by crafting your inputs specifically to reduce lag. If anything, it would be nice to see improved lag reduction in an improvement (or on this submission, since it's new).
Did you verify that the movement in a few of these sections is optimal? I wasn't expecting you to have to double kick in the CH2 elevator, and you didn't alternate walls in the CH4 climb. There are some notes on the X1 Sig 4 climb in the buster only TAS that may be worth looking at.
In CH2, I first attempted to land on the elevator but it did not work at all. I get damaged before reaching the wall, and I fall down. The idea was to kick from the elevator so I get to the point where I hug the wall right after I get damaged. However, this puts me in a lower distance from the flame on the left side, which is why I had to double kick. As for refights climb, I tested multiple versions and I saved the fastest out of them all. That said, I may check back the climb you mentioned, as warmCabin and FractalFusion detailed that more.
Akiteru wrote:
I don't think you got the fastest shell spin pattern in the Snail refight. The spin speed you get is based on the global timer, and the cycle of patterns repeats every 8 frames. I would recommend doing Centipede first, and then checking Snail after each refight to attempt to get the fastest shell spin without having to waste frames to manipulate it.
Honestly, I thought it was RNG all along, and I assumed that I will just have to manipulate it inside the fight, as the first attack is always going to be Snail reacting to my shot and go to a spinning pattern. From my testing however, I kept looking at which patterns he does the shortest spins, and I attempted to get them. I think the shortest I got was 1 full spin and half. Note that Snail has to go higher one time, otherwise I will get a third spinning cycle, which I assume the cause of bad spinning pattern.
Akiteru wrote:
Nice Wolverine fight, I wasn't sure how much of a pain it would be to manipulate swipes but I guess it's possible to force them in a buster only scenario? In any% you have to manipulate 7 swipes in a row purely from RNG, so it's nice to see it wasn't so bad here.
Yeah, I believe you get many free swipes until Sigma's HP goes down by half then he starts randomizing his attacks. The only way I found to get him do only swipes was delaying them by couple frames.
Akiteru wrote:
Overall nice job, I think there are things that can be done to reduce lag even if the baseline amount of lag is higher on v115 (minor movement variations like jump heights, shooting lemons, for example). A lot of the lag in the wireframe fight is caused by movement and inputs as well, for example holding 3+ buttons at the same time can cause lag. It might be possible to reduce a lot/all of the lag on wireframe by crafting your inputs specifically to reduce lag. If anything, it would be nice to see improved lag reduction in an improvement (or on this submission, since it's new).
Yep, I did work on reducing lag for Wireframe fight, and I even noticed that pressing many buttons lags the game more. I think most of the improvements might come from lag reduction and some other time saving opportunities that I know or have missed.
Also thank you Aki for all the feedback and information sharing while working on this and right now. I appreciate it!
Honestly, I thought it was RNG all along, and I assumed that I will just have to manipulate it inside the fight, as the first attack is always going to be Snail reacting to my shot and go to a spinning pattern. From my testing however, I kept looking at which patterns he does the shortest spins, and I attempted to get them. I think the shortest I got was 1 full spin and half. Note that Snail has to go higher one time, otherwise I will get a third spinning cycle, which I assume the cause of bad spinning pattern.
Oh, I was referring to the spin before the fight even starts, like the spin just before he lands on the ground. I'm unsure if the spins during the fight are on the same cycle, but that one should be manipulable by rearranging the refights (or delaying frames if you complete every fight except Snail without getting the fastest spin, which would be pretty unlucky.) The spin in the first fight isn't as nice to manipulate because all you can really do is tradeoff movement frames for lag frames to land on a different global timer value, or delay frames. The difference between the slowest spin and the fastest is 30 frames according to Hetfield's notes on the 31:15, so it's worth delaying frames for if necessary.
Oh, I was referring to the spin before the fight even starts, like the spin just before he lands on the ground. I'm unsure if the spins during the fight are on the same cycle, but that one should be manipulable by rearranging the refights (or delaying frames if you complete every fight except Snail without getting the fastest spin, which would be pretty unlucky.) The spin in the first fight isn't as nice to manipulate because all you can really do is tradeoff movement frames for lag frames to land on a different global timer value, or delay frames. The difference between the slowest spin and the fastest is 30 frames according to Hetfield's notes on the 31:15, so it's worth delaying frames for if necessary.
Ah I see now... I wasn't aware of that at all. I should read more submission before attempting a TAS from now on haha :D
Not having the buster upgrade makes lots of differences while watching this run, and this game still works well.
Great job with another MMX game and yes vote!
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Joined: 5/29/2017
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Amazing run. I'm glad to see more love for Buster focused Mega Man runs. Yes Vote
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
This was a nice change of pace from the other MMX2 runs. I can't say much about the optimization, the TAS looked very solid to my layman's eyes. I enjoyed watching it a lot, so it's a yes vote from me.
Thank you everyone for all the feedback and reviews, it truly means a lot to me! I'm excited to work on another X-Buster only TAS.... Idk if it will finish this year or not though :D
Actually, it shouldn't for two good reasons:
1) Not going for best ending is the main reason why they can't obsolete each other.
2) The purpose of this run is to showcase how the game can be beaten as fast as possible with just the X-Buster. The no upgrades part was just an additional restriction to represent Low% for now. Keep in mind that a regular no upgrades run can still be added to the site as it's a Standard goal now (which is Low%), however it will not obsolete this run.
Actually, it shouldn't for two good reasons:
1) Not going for best ending is the main reason why they can't obsolete each other.
2) The purpose of this run is to showcase how the game can be beaten as fast as possible with just the X-Buster. The no upgrades part was just an additional restriction to represent Low% for now. Keep in mind that a regular no upgrades run can still be added to the site as it's a Standard goal now (which is Low%), however it will not obsolete this run.