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Posted: 9/17/2006 2:00 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Thanks for the info. I'll put it into use. I'll only need 100 more rupees than you to get 1 of the bottles, right? Also in the room where I slashed the rat, I lossed about 50 frames. Unless there is a something I'm unaware of, I believe I timed that room to virtual frame perfection. I manipulated the rat to move towards me.
Posted: 9/17/2006 2:19 PM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
50 frames ain't bad. Considering that you need to move over to it to collect the key. I have no doubt you have optimized that room. I still think that losing 100 frames over the boomerang isn't right, but I'm not basing this off facts, and I havn't seen your run yet, so I look forward to seeing it and how a run looks without the boomerang.
Posted: 9/17/2006 3:27 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
dezbeast, if you slashed the rat in the basement to the left, you'll probably want to go back and slash it downward or even to the right.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 9/17/2006 4:52 PM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Random question: is it faster to move diagonally up/left instead of wobble left and wobble up?
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Posted: 9/17/2006 5:28 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
It's exactly the same since you only move 71% the speed of a wobble although you travel 71% the distance. Omni, I slashed the rat to the right. Yeah I miscalculated how many frames I lost so you were right Erokky. I think it was closer to 80.
Posted: 9/17/2006 10:23 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
Zurreco wrote:
Random question: is it faster to move diagonally up/left instead of wobble left and wobble up?
Diagonal movement is 1+1,1+1,1+1, etc. pixels/frame Regular movement to the right and down is 1,2,1,2 etc. pixels/frame Regular movement to the up and left is 2,1,2,1 etc. pixels/frame Movement while carrying an object or holding out your sword or walking in the water is 1,2,1,1,1,2,1,1 etc when going down or right and 2,1,1,1,2,1,1,1 etc when going up or left. Or 1+1,1+1,0+0 on the diagonal (iirc) For wobbling you just take the first number of each, so wobbling up or left is 2,2,2,2,2, which is the same speed as moving on the diagonal. Unless you're in water or holding something or have your sword out, then it's faster than the diagonal.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 9/19/2006 11:49 AM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
This totally slipped through me. You say you're 100 frames behind, did you get the heart container at the end of the basement, or do you plan to get that later on?
Posted: 9/20/2006 4:28 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
I watched this, and I wasn't familiar enough with the game to see major improvements but it did seem faster in slight ways and such good stuff
☣ Homepage ☣ Retired
Posted: 9/20/2006 6:24 AM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
erokky wrote:
This totally slipped through me. You say you're 100 frames behind, did you get the heart container at the end of the basement, or do you plan to get that later on?
It was probably more like 80. And it's only the frames I lost by not having the boomerang. It doesn't include the heart container, which I happened to get.
Posted: 9/25/2006 11:16 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Alright, I made it past the Eastern Palace. I'm ready for your ideas on what route I should take.
Posted: 9/26/2006 3:08 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Hey that's great, how about a wip please? Route planning for 100% will probably very fun and challenging due to the many side quests that can be done in almost any order, but it has been a long time since I played picking up heart pieces and stuff so I don't think I will be of much help.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 9/26/2006 3:35 AM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Sure. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2113/100_percent_run.SMV
Posted: 9/26/2006 3:57 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Thanks, it looks good. Although both runs are very good so far, I am surprised by the number of differences that the two runs have taken and the only cause is no boomerang versus boomerang.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 9/28/2006 4:31 AM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
Hi dezbeast, after watching your run, I discovered some huge flaws in my run which I must correct, therefore I am redoing the East Palace. I can't sit and discuss the 100% route at the moment but may I suggest you grab a bomb somehow, so after the Desert Dungeon, you can grab that heart piece in the cave (with the old man) and then you can save/quit from there. Edit: Test to see if you can ram that wall down.
Posted: 9/28/2006 7:14 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
dezbeast, here's a little time saver that erokky and I (mostly erokky really) hammered out for the Desert Dungeon. In the room with the four Tangelas that you have to kill to proceed, you can actually use a bomb on two of them and kill the other two with a single (?) pegusus dash. Much faster. You can pick up this bomb in one of two locations, either as a drop from the skeletons, you have to kill an extra one in the basement and an extra one in the room with the bow, or under a bush just south of the Flute Kid. It's faster to pick them up from the skeletons, (in fact, according to ero, you can do it with absolutely no additional time used.) However, because that means you'll need to manipulate some drops and I don't know how keen you are about repeating most of the first dungeon, you may be better off just grabbing a bomb from that bush or somewhere else entirely.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 9/28/2006 7:38 AM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
I was wondering if someone (points at Omni, Flag and Erokky) could create A Link To The Past-tricks page?
Posted: 9/28/2006 7:39 AM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
In fact, there are two bushes under the flute kid which hold bombs, they're right next to each other. Use 1 for the tangela room, 1 for the heart piece after the dungeon.
Posted: 9/29/2006 2:17 AM
(Edited: 9/29/2006 3:16 AM)
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
So it saves time to get the bomb and use it on them despite the fact that I have to waste over 60 frames going into the menu? Not to mention having to stop dashing and go a bit out of the way to get the bomb. Also wouldn't it be better to get that heart piece after getting the bombos medallion?
Posted: 9/29/2006 2:27 AM
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Oddity
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
dezbeast wrote:
Sure. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2113/100_percent_run.SMV
I can't view this and it's frustrating! I've always been able to get WIPs to work but it says this is a wrong file format. It's acting weird.
<^>v AB X LR s
Posted: 9/29/2006 2:36 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Works for me. Are you sure you didn't accidentally save that as a movie and try watching it?
Posted: 9/29/2006 2:54 AM
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Oddity
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
god thank you. That was some craziness. Weird URL... yeah I did save the actual site not the file
<^>v AB X LR s
Posted: 9/29/2006 3:38 AM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
You need to switch to the Lantern anyway. So use the bomb and it automatically switches to the Lantern. I have tested this, it is guranteed to save at least 1 second if you get the bomb from the East Palace via drops from skeletons, and even if you stop the dash to grab the bomb from under the bush, you will still save time in that room. As for the Bombos Medallion, by then, you have the flute, so you can fly from the tablet right after you grab your Bombos. but the distance from the exit of the Desert Dungeon to the cave is further. You make this decision. Edit: I re-finished the dungeon 93 frames quicker.
Posted: 9/29/2006 3:13 PM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2142/alttp.smv Thanks dezbeast for the new strategies.
Posted: 9/29/2006 3:22 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Awesome. One thing I like about this game is the way monster drops work, it makes it advantageous to kill monsters even if you aren't going to pick up the item. This results in more killing and ultimately more entertainment.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 9/30/2006 6:47 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
erokky wrote:
Thanks dezbeast for the new strategies.
Well those minor tricks pales in comparison to all the tricks I learned from watching your WIP and Flag's. So thank you both. Anyway, I'm in the process of playing through the whole game to figure out a basic route. When I'm done I'll post the route and see if you can determine a quicker one. I'm also doing this to test to see if I can get the red boomerang anywhere before completing the Gargoyle's Domain.
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