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Posted: 10/16/2006 4:18 PM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
That's good news. Can I ask where you saved the time? Steps to Hyrule Castle, wobbling downwards out of doorways, not diagonally walking through water, the second to last room before the sanctuary? Any others?
Posted: 10/16/2006 4:55 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I saved 14 frames on the steps. 2 frames where I got the first key by charging sword left as opposed to up. 8 frames by charging sword before getting past the guard (trick I learned from your WIP). Back in the room where I got the first key, I failed to wobble while getting out of doorway, lost about 4 frames their. In the throne room I think I gained another 10 frames on the steps. One neat little trick that I didn't do in my previous WIP was manipulating the position of the enemies in the previous room to manipulate enemy behavior in the next room instead of delaying frames before entering the next room. I think I saved at least 10 frames by doing that. I didn't lose time walking in the water because I was wobbling diagonally, but in the second to last room before the sanctuary I lost a lot of time, because not only did I not go through the pot, but I also failed to wobble when going left. I think I gained about 15 frames at that part. And of course the wobbling down doorways trick, which put me a ahead 2 frames each doorway I could do it. Every thing else is just more precise movement. Making sure I either begin or end going 2 pixels when walking down or right. The only way to begin going right or down 2 pixels is if you are one pixel away from a corner, then you could press right or down to use up the 1 pixel and then you could go 2 pixels right away. And testing which way I begin the wobble to get to next room earlier. Sometimes I get there earlier by pressing up+down or left+right first. Sometimes it's faster to just press up or left first.
Posted: 10/16/2006 6:15 PM
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erokky
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Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
Your final three sentences make me ask: do you use memory watch for Link's X/Y position? 7e003f = y position 7e0020 = x position You'll know that you started with the wrong wobble direction if you exit the room two or three pixels more than you should. In a sense, you're activating the exploration glitch for 1 frame :P. flagitious found those addresses, very helpful. Thanks again flag. Throne room steps, didn't you use the steps bug in the first place? Anyway, as cool as the doorway wobbling bug is, I'm glad I don't lose as much time as I first thought. Good thing you found out about it as early as you did though. Also, as for the enemy movement thing, you can't see it, but I did wait 2 or 3 frames in order to get the green knight to walk towards me for the spin attack (just before the boomerang room). I only learned of a less costing way to manipulate monster movement when I reached the rat with the key in the basement. It's a pity my run has so many small holes in the first 4 minutes, but it's not too bad since they're pretty much invisible mistakes. As for what we agreed on, just take your time. I'll use this time to test rupee routes and play around and hopefully discover some useful bugs. Also, you might find this interesting. Let's assume you defeat a boss with full magic but not full hearts. After you collect the pendant the game takes 5 frames per heart to fill up. I'm not sure about magic though, it may be the same or it could be 8 frames per thingy it increases. Anyway, point is that it's not worth getting hit unless you save 6 or more frames.
Posted: 10/16/2006 6:39 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
Nope, 7E0020 is his Y position and 7E0022 his X position. 7E003F (upper half in 7E0041) is his previous X position.
Posted: 10/16/2006 6:47 PM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
Oh cool. Fanx moite. That explains why my 7e003f changes axis occasionally.
Posted: 10/16/2006 9:09 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I tried playing around with the memory watching feature but I never really built a liking to it. Perhaps if there were a way to leave it open while I advance frames like on vba, I would put it to use. I'll go ahead and keep those values in mind in case it's easier to know Link's position. Also I wasn't aware of the steps bug until I analyzed your WIP more closely. I didn't do it on the steps in the throne room. I only wobbled diagonally. Edit: Yes! I got it. I wasn't pressing Watch. Nice feature.
Posted: 10/30/2006 6:15 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
I noticed that one run uses boomerang and one doesn't. is there a decision for this? is it for the difference between 100% and any%? What's the latest progress on these two beautiful runs?
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Posted: 10/30/2006 6:19 AM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
The boomerang isn't needed, so one run uses it and one doesn't.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Posted: 10/30/2006 6:26 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Hm I merely noted that item collection is slightly faster with it and wondered why both don't use it.
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Posted: 10/30/2006 7:45 AM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Since I'm aiming for 100%, I skipped the blue boomerang to get the red one later on in a chest that otherwise wouldn't have it if I had grabbed the blue one. It's a lot faster to do that than to swim to the fairy and wait for her to exchange the blue boomerang for the red one. As of now I'm in the middle of the Desert Palace.
Posted: 11/1/2006 4:10 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Erokky, I found that the bomb doesn't save time. With perfect enemy manipulation just using Flag's strategy is several frames faster. Hopefully I'll get done the Desert Palace by the end of the day.
Posted: 11/2/2006 8:39 AM
(Edited: 9/5/2008 9:01 AM)
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erokky
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Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
gone
Posted: 11/2/2006 9:50 AM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Well I apologize, but I did let you know that I was going to fix all the errors in my run if I decided to redo part of the Eastern Palace. And you were the one that convinced me to redo part of the Eastern Palace. Otherwise I would've just continued on. It would have taken just as long to hex edit. I have other things I do besides working on this run.
Posted: 11/2/2006 4:47 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I just watched your WIP, erokky, and I'm very impressed. You seem to have found quite a few timesavers. This run is looking really promising. I'm just curious, have you compared how much time you have saved over flagitious' run? Or perhaps an estimation?
My own page on this site.
Posted: 11/2/2006 5:31 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Oh yeah and don't let the recording date of my WIP mislead you. It's actually an add on to a test I was conducting. I actually didn't restart until over a week afterward. I just decided to add on to my test when I found that hex editing was taking longer than I thought it would. That's also one of the reasons I didn't wobble down the first doorway.
Posted: 11/2/2006 6:14 PM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
Randil, it's 1299 frames upon defeating the second boss.
Posted: 11/2/2006 7:18 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
just saw the WIP, looks relle good.
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Posted: 11/3/2006 5:29 PM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
dezbeast, I found out that you could lodge into a wall directly after your telling me of the doorway wobbling trick. I didn't find it important enough to take notes of it. But now, I have discovered this new trick, coincidently, I discovered it right before reading your PM. I was seeing if I could do a similar thing to the Rockman zipping bug, but unfortunately I couldn't. Here it is: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2539/teleport.smv Is that what you were describing to me in the PM?
Posted: 11/3/2006 8:35 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Yep, that's it. Maybe you should try hex editing that trick in every doorway you could do it or maybe even start your run over again. I think you could save 10-15 frames each doorway you could do it.
Posted: 11/3/2006 8:40 PM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
Negative. It takes you 6 pixels in a single frame. You can do it up to a maximum of 2 times through each doorway. For 4 frames, you're going the equivalent of a dash. In some cases, you're dashing through a doorway so only a few doors will this be useful for (so far) and you'll save a maximum of 4 frames per doorway. Also keep in mind that this only works in doorways where you're traveling upward.
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:15 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I just tested it at the same doorway on your link, and it saved 11 frames there. I know for certain it saved 15 frames on another doorway I tested it.
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:16 PM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
Can I please see a demo? Also, if I can save 10+ frames from one of those doorways, I will definitely restart my run.
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:33 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Click on your link and change the number to 2545. Note I didn't start the test until frame 201.
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:38 PM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
Cool. I guess I did not test this precisely enough. It's back to the beginning for me then I guess. Do you have this trick incorporated into your new run?
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:41 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
No, but I will from now on though.
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