Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I actually just got a new .m64 to no matter where in the movie, to reset the ROM just like in Kirby 64... I think it's the way it's supposed to go, not pause 1 frame before like antd said... try this instead and see if it works.
Downloaded the vid, the soud is a little quiet, I can't wait to see the new strategies, this is gonna rock... BTW I also managed 4:51 in Link my first try, so optimized I might be able to squeeze maybe at best one more time unit.
no matter what time/score I get, I'm still going to consider you a greater player for two reasons: A) making the run in the first place, you pioneered this on your own and B) you did it in real time, that takes more skill.
I'm looking foward to this, the weekend is coming soon so that I can optimize Link and start Yoshi team (hopefully)
antd wrote:
To record from the start you can pause at frame 1, then start the avi recording.
actually, as DeHackEd has shown that is probably not the right method, as evidenced by the short AVI he made of my menu navigation. I think I have it right this time with my posted .m64.
Joined: 3/18/2006
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Maybe we are talking about different things then. I was talking about recording AVI. This worked.
BTW, my menu navigation at the beginning was not optimised, so I will restart my run.
Nic, killed Link on the same frame as me. However, the timer clearly shows I was faster, so I'll have to re-do the menu to match his. I will take off controller 2 then, since it's unlikely I'll get any benefit from using it.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Yes that's probably right for recording AVI's. I however was having to do that EVERY time to get the movie to play right.
I find that strange, since our menu navigating was actually faster because than Nico's because we move the cursor faster and select character first... you selected Fox first, then very hard, then stock, whereas Nico chose very hard then Fox, so in actuality that, plus you beating by one in game timer, means you should be ~2 seconds ahead of him, so I don't know how he's at the same frame as you.
Joined: 3/18/2006
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I was running two Mupen64 instances. So maybe it showed only my frame count on his instance. That could've been the case. I'll re-watch his using one instance of the program and see if I'm faster.
Yes, that was the case. It was showing the same frames.
So I am faster than him. Mupen is being crazy right now, not showing anything on the screen and not being able to play in a window. So perhaps I can't work on the run as much as I want to.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Yeah that might be it... two instances is not good, use one Mupen
I just tested, and when you're trying to review the work that's just been done, if you reset the ROM or reload the ROM, it might desynch... but shutting down Mupen, reopening it, loading the ROM, waiting a while and then playing the .m64 makes it work every time. So now I know I have a .m64 that shouldn't desynch for anyone.
Nice movie, PsychoticWorm! You did this in real-time?
Yep. I spent countless hours completing it...using savestates. I don't care what anyone else thinks, I think its pretty impressive, especially for doing it all in real time. But I still can't wait for comicalflop to shatter my new record! I'm pretty excited to see his video when its done.
for what it's worth, the m64 posted a few pages ago did not desync for me like it did for dehacked. I only used direct64, but it went all the way to the end of the first battle the way it was supposed to.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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well, I got a .m64 that works the ways it's supposed to. Time to optmize Link! I think 4:51 is the limit of optimization, unless I can truly get Link to follow me zealously.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Link is done, I got the exact same time as the new vid, for some reason the very first time I attempted this stage I got 4:51 extremely easy, and the next time I did it took many tries simply to get 4:51. I was extremely close to getting 4:54, but I was one frame off and couldn't manipulate Link that way again.
Vs. Link Test run done
I can probably optimize it later, to see if I can really shave off that last second or two. It's official- there is no getting any bonuses from being on the bottom of the screen out of normal view.
Thoughts?
If you're talking about the Mystic bonus, I think that only works when you're in the magnifying glass either on the right, left, or top of the screen. I'm not 100% sure though.
I thought mystic only worked if you were dying on the top of the screen and winked out of existence as it ended? Or is that Star Finish?
Anyway here's cf's level 1:
http://tas.monotoli.org/mov/ssb-wip1-comicalflop.mkv
Joined: 6/13/2006
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A vid is makeable? excellent, that means no worries about desynchs and such.
Comet mystic is when you die off the top of the screen without losing a life. normal mystic actually makes you lose a life, so it's no good. I don't know if either of those can/will fit into the run.
I have gotten Mystic, from testing a suicude throw against Link, it's activated by a death so no good.
Comet Mystic (?) is when you're on your way to a star finish when you win (ie. you'd be dead in another ~2 seconds). Mystic means you're in a magnifying glass, but I always thought it meant you had died or were about it.
From my memory of actually earning this award on the console.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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yeah, based on the strategies, and how Kirby will be positioned at the end of every stage I don't think they're doable. There are other bonuses to abuse.
Plus, I am pretty sure Mystic ruins the No miss clear bonus at the end, 300,000 points down the drain.
the link battle looked good, maybe you could position yourself closer to the edge so you don't have to wobble so long after sucking him in?
BTW, your avatar matches your name nicely.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I was thinking that I could probably position myself 1-2 pixels closer to the left... the problem is that there is a 1-2 frame range of Kirby's position as he sucks in Link (as Psychoticworm pointed out) where Kirby can fall down and spit Link safely on the wall... one frame too early, and you hit rock bottom and die before Link does (opposite of how DK, pikachu, and metal mario handle being inside Kirby when the bottom of the level is reached.) 1 frame too soon and you spit Link out before you start to descend, giving him plenty of time to recover. So I'll check and see if there's a frame I can turn one pixel closer to Link, and see if I can spit Lnik out JUST before hitting the bottom, who knows it might save a second.
My avatar matches my name? how so?
comicalflop, for you Link battle I have a few questions: Could it be faster by going to the left edge of the level to do it? Could you manipulate Link to not roll at the beginning (maybe if you jump over him or something instead of running through him)? And, is it possible to suck in Link as you're falling off the edge, so you dont have to wait on the ground with him? Maybe the problem here is that you cant spit him out in time and you end up dying. Also, I understand shooting Link out of your mouth horizontally ruins the pacifist bonus, but what about shooting him out the top by copying his ability? Could this work in conjuction with falling off the edge and then swallowing him as you fall? And could it be possible to save time by swallowing Link at a different time so he doesnt jump after you spit him out (as seen in psychoticworm's video)?
Good work.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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thegreginator wrote:
comicalflop, for you Link battle I have a few questions: Could it be faster by going to the left edge of the level to do it? Could you manipulate Link to not roll at the beginning (maybe if you jump over him or something instead of running through him)? And, is it possible to suck in Link as you're falling off the edge, so you dont have to wait on the ground with him? Maybe the problem here is that you cant spit him out in time and you end up dying. Also, I understand shooting Link out of your mouth horizontally ruins the pacifist bonus, but what about shooting him out the top by copying his ability? Could this work in conjuction with falling off the edge and then swallowing him as you fall? And could it be possible to save time by swallowing Link at a different time so he doesnt jump after you spit him out (as seen in psychoticworm's video)?
Good work.
Hm these are all interesting points, I'll address them all.
-faster going to the left ledge- no. Psychoticworm pointed out that the left ledge is sloped, and actually pushes Kirby closer inwards instead of out to fall down like desired. Nico showed that grabbing a ledge can make an enemy fall, but if I go to the left edge (I tried) all Link ever did was throw bombs and hit me out of my ledge grab with his sword.
-He rolls through me if I run right through him, and any method of jumping over him is going to negatively alter his actions; that's why I do those hops in the mini tower, because it made Link move non stop to the right. You must remember, this game I believe has the most sensitive enemy outcome based on input. That said, I might try to wait a little while and jump over him one second later; as I said that was a test run (one that nailed my projected time) but I might fiddle around with it a little more to see if I can squeeze one more second out of it.
-in a previous desynching .m64, I jumped and floated way above the ledge, and as I fell I sucked Link on the way down and was able to spit him out at the last second. I gained absolutely no time from it, as I got 4:51 as well.
-correct, I cannot spit him out in time, as I stated there is a 1-2 frame oppurtunity near the edge that requires Kirby's position to be very precise. I could've gotten a 4:53 or 4:52 if only my drop was perfect in an earlier version, sigh...
-I hadn't though about copying, I'd have to test if that damages the opponent or nullifies Pacifist.
-It's all about placement- it took psychotic worm a little more time to set up where he sucked up Link, and ended with a great drop that left Link with little jumping- the problem is that the manipulation before that is skethcy at best, he loses preciosu time waiting for Link to come over. I have Link arrive at the destination the fastest, which is offset by Link jumping. Interesting to note, we both suck Link at 4:56, so in reality both our Kirby placements were perfect.
Again, I'll have another go and see if I can shave off at least one more second. And if not I still matched the optimal projected length.
Thanks for taking such a critical + creative outlook to try and find interesting and new improvements.
thanks for constructive feedback
laughing_gas wrote:
comicalflop wrote:
My avatar matches my name? how so?
Well, kirby is in a "flopped" position, and it looks quite "comical"
Haha you're quite right. Alrighty, the avatar stays for a long time to come. I generally try to make my avatar match whatever game I'm working on, I cropped this picture to fit 80x80 and thought it'd be appropriate since I am doing two runs with Kirby. But as you've pointed out, it cuts to the core of my forum name, so kudos.
I just thought of one other thing for Link. He's a big fan of doing his aerial down a (the one where his sword gets stuck in the ground). If you could run to the edge and put on your shield and manipulate link to do his aerial down a, it would "slide" off your shield and Link would fall right off the edge. I dont know how manipulation works too well but this should be possible, the question is if it's faster.
Also, if you say Link only throws bombs and stuff when you hang on the left edge, you could try falling from that ledge to see if he does anything differently (maybe an aerial down a right off the edge ;) ).
Nice video. I'd like to mention also that Somehow I was able to get the Hawk bonus in the Link level...I think by somehow sucking in Link in the air, while still managing to land the right distance from the edge to drop him properly.
Joined: 3/18/2006
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You can make Link come to the left edge. I don't know how to properly position myself on that edge though so the Link dies and not Kirby ^_^.
If it's at all posible?
Does the sloping ledge also stop the suicide back throw? I am not getting it to work. I have Link right next to the left edge at 4:57. I don't know what you can do from there, but I'm trying to find something.
http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capturetu7.jpg
Joined: 6/13/2006
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I'll definetly try that. A free Aerial- who could pass that up?
I noticed that Link did not use his down+a air at all. he only used bombs, boomerang, or used his Up+B to evade me in the air (I would start sucking when he got close, and he'd swirl over my head, wasting a full second.); those are the only moves he demonstrated in the 4 seconds that I toy with him.
antd wrote:
You can make Link come to the left edge. I don't know how to properly position myself on that edge though so the Link dies and not Kirby ^_^.
If it's at all posible?
I tried, not extensively though. I'm imagining a scenario like DK in Nico's run, by edge grabbing and haing Link fall down past. The problem I see with it is two fold:
One, Link does not use his up+B on the ground ever, especially not in the short time frame we have. (this is also actually a very good point- I have a very short time frame to manipulate enemies, so if they don't behave a certain way within that time frame, then that particular strategy won't work.) DK and Pikachu can be killed by this ledge grab because their up+B does not damage Kirby (in DK's case, if you're holding onto the ledge, he won't damage you because you're beneath him.) DK spirals and falls because he consistenltly does it and the mechanics of his spin make recovering difficult, same with Pikachu.
If I remember, Psychositcworm did you mention that the left edge is bad for Kirby to do the swallow rountine because it's sloped? I didtinctly remember this one piece of info being brought up before.
