Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
It could, but isn't that cheating, even by TAS terms?and does it slow down the actual gameplay? if so, that would ruin the whole thing. I'll consider it. How does it work? hit start every other frame?
However, I just finished a test run of BtT, and got 1:46 on the timer, which is 14 seconds, i.e. not slower than the WR's for in-game time. However, I calculated with some frames, and found that to beat the 14"07, I'd need to save at least 27 frames. I'll probably redo to see if I can get that 27 frames, although since score-wise unless I improve an in-game timer I'm not going to gain any points.
BtT test run .m64BtT test run WMV
you can definitely pacifist link and yoshi team.
the "cheat" you're talking about is pausing repeatedly to make the time counter slow down. it's no use to a tas.
edit: i meant you can definitely pacifist link without the suck/blow and taunt. in fact, i'm pretty sure you can do this on every level save bonuses and master hand.
I don't think anyone can "only" view mkv. I won't bother for this game though since no one seems to have any desyncs and you've got it covered with youtube.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
as I had described earlier, when manipulating Link's movement whenever I edge grabbed, he would only throw bombs, and the only time he'd whilrwind was if he jumped slightly over me, and would whirlwind back onto the stage beyond the ledge, so no luck there. Pikachu, Donkey Kong and Foc are much easier to edge grab for the pacifist because their up+b works to my advantage... they do the move often, and the physics of their move makes them suicide when I edge grab. for the Yoshi Team/Polygon Team it would take far too long, maybe on easy but on very hard they actually are quite good in not dying on their own, since they use their float so often. they also do not kill themselves fast enough at all.
for the start glitch, does it reset to 0 at any point in the first second, or do I have to do it more repeatedly? like do I hit start every 59 frames for maximum affect? and would it be acceptable in a TAS, since it's reproducable on a console?
mike89 wrote:
NintenDan is correct. There's a certain set of conditions you have to meet before you have a chance of getting Mew which basically means you'll never get it from a fresh game.
this from a knowledgeable person on SDA, so I am assuming from this point on that Mew is uncatchable.
Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain
If you press start once, you gain like 1 frame in-game time. So keep pressing it and the timer wont move ^^
I've TAS'd this before it looks total bulls**t.
BTW, it depends which BtT you are doing. Some have been very optimised in realtime. EG. Link, Captain Falcon.
I don't know about Kirby's. It's malva00's record, who is the best at the game. It must be good... since marth1 hasn't beaten it yet. I don't think Kirby BtT is very popular though. So it could be easy to beat it. As was the case with Ness'
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Kirby's has been optimized in real time, 14"07 by Marth 1. I'm going to redo to see if, in the TAS I can gain 27 frames, because that would make me at least 0"01 ahead.
i don't know much about the mario bros battle, but for pikachu it's really easy to get pacifist since his up+B move is so inaccurate. I believe 4:55 is achieveable with some manipulation.
For Giant DK are you using the same strategy from link's level?
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
psychoticworm got 4:55 on pikachu using the swallow maneuver... I'm going to either do that, or try to make him suicide by edge grabbing so that I get an extra 100 points for fighter stance.
Giant DK same thing, nico got pacifist in his run, but DK was able to hit one of the partners giving DK defender not DK perfect, so I'll probably do the swallow unless I find some way for him to suicide with up+b without touching any of my friends.
I still need to beat the world record on my BtT, I only need to save 27 frames to do so. I won't continue until I match or beat it.
here's the link strategy on giant DK
http://download.yousendit.com/AA033FED30B16994
I recorded it off of PJ64 with fraps, so it only runs at half speed.
pacifist and DK perfect is obtained as well.
it could be faster since I shielded DK's first hit, so in your run you could manipulate him to stand still.
another strategy is to just run right off the right side and sometimes he'll follow you and do his up+B move. However, a lot of times he makes it back to the main platform, so that requires more manipulation
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
that vid is the same strategy as psychoticworm's, and is one second slower. I still think the fastest method is to edge grab, make DK up+b and somehow make it so that he doesn't hit any of my friends on the way for a perfect DK. that way, since 5 seconds seems to be the max, I cna get fastest time, pacifist, fighter stance, and DK perfect by edge grabbing, which would net the highest score.
Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain
comicalflop wrote:
Giant DK same thing, nico got pacifist in his run, but DK was able to hit one of the partners giving DK defender not DK perfect, so I'll probably do the swallow unless I find some way for him to suicide with up+b without touching any of my friends.
Do what I did and manipulate smart Team Mates so they don't get hit ^^
Oh yeah you haven't seen my vs G.DK yet =P
BtT: You have to go through from the beginning (with the WR video) and always be ahead of marth1 at every target. You use MPC so you can frame advance the video (or 3 frames or whatever since the video was encoded at that rate). There's no quick way to do BtT I'm afraid. Even for me haha~
I just wanted to point out to those people throwing around the term "AVI" as a video type: AVI is not a video type, nor is it a codec. It's simply a container format. I don't know youtube's submission formats, but rest assured it probably has more to do with the actual codec used than the container format.
bkDj: I do appreciate the vids you've been making for the many TASes in progress. You clearly know how to encode video properly for quality and filesize. I guess I don't mind watching youtube vids, but having a quality downloadable version is still the best imo.
I did notice that mplayer (windows) has some audio/video sync issues with your vids, however I don't really like mplayer that much, and media player classic / ffdshow plays them just great.
Thanks to those of you working on this game. This thread seems incredibly active now and it's great to see preliminary results. Keep it up!
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
unfortunately, Yoshi Pacifist is a very bad idea, Rainbow is practically impossible to get, and Link has a veyr bad habit of not wanting to use his whirlwind until a certain thing has happened, after 20 seconds or so (i've tested it.) he can whirlwind early, but he is quite savvy and will always come back.
Do the WMV's that antd and I post work out fine? for my media player classic, it plays the .mk and WMV equally, and I know how to make those so that's what I'll continue to do. sending .m64, WMV, and youtube link seems to be best so that anyone can see.
I am having a lot of trouble with gaining frames in BtT, I did it very quickly and I guess optimally in my test run because I cannot seem to gain frames at all, despite right now trying to optimize everything and testing out new strategies. I am perfectly happy to keep going with what I have, because score wise I cannot gain any points at all, and if antd and I do a seperate run with BtT and BtP those should all break the world records, whereas my score run I've gotten as high a score as is possible.
yoshi pacifist is a very bad idea? i understand if you don't want to go through the trouble of doing it, but it's certainly not impossible-- and it is worth more points. if you don't want to do it, just say so.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
I don't want to do it :P hope you understand
The aerial + trickster + yoshi's rainbow is 71,000 points, and in a much less time so this seems more ideal to use. I'm sure pacifist + yoshi could be gotten, but I don't want to spend a month on that one stage alone. I am very happy of the results I got for that stage, which already beats any other world record for highest score.
I'm considering just moving on to Mario Bros., since I am having absolutely no luck in gaining any framage.
Gained 6 frames, and cannot gain any more anywhere... I'm just going to move on.
I don't want to do it :P hope you understand
The aerial + trickster + yoshi's rainbow is 71,000 points, and in a much less time so this seems more ideal to use.
So are you saying that your method actually gets more total points than the total points you would have for a pacifist strategy? If not, then you might want to reconsider getting pacifist (even if its hard) since your goal is score not speed.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
correct. I get more points from Hawk+trickster+yoshi's rainbow.
I'm on to Mario Bros., and DAMN is it hard to hurt only one of the bros, and still keep Pikachu UNHARMED. I shall prevail i guess... it's probably gonna take me all night.
edit: well, I did one run in 9 seconds, killed Mario first, then Luigi, pikachu didn't get hit, and it didn't count with bros. calamity. I'll keep the file saved just ini case I cannot replicate it.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I really do not see pacifist + rainbow working for me, I'm sorry. The theory is there, but we are talking about making 18 Yoshis kill themselves in order. I have studied them extremely carefully to learn the way they move, and the only way that you can get them to suicide when they grab the edge is if both of the other Yoshis are in the exact perfect spot, and the Yoshi that you want does a double jump i.e. float, heads towards the bottom ledge, and you are grabbing the edge. The Yoshis movement is already SO difficult to control even without the pacifist bonus, that it just seems impossible. All pacifist I could probably see happening, if I spent an entire 24 hours on it. Pacifist + Yoshi rainbow... not so much.
Bottom line: while I recognize that Yoshi rainbow + pacifist would net the highest score of all, I am uncertain of even being able to pull it off, and as the author of the run I appreciate everyone trying to find possible improvements, thank you but that's one improvement I can't quite do. I'll attempt it if I ever try to redo this run.
edit: actually, I'll consider doing pacifist at Kirby team, does that sound like a good tradeoff?
Moving on, and more exciting... I got Bros. Calamity and True Friend for Mario Bros. in ten seconds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3022/ssbhighscore-comicalflopv3.m64
WMV coming soon.
actually the most ideal way to get pacifist AND yoshi rainbow is on VERY EASY DIFFICULTY...when you suck them up, and let them auto pop out, they fly upward and die...no damage done. I'll see if i can get a video of it.. Its also possible to get pacifist on link on very easy too, you just walk-push him off the left edge...sometimes he will pull out a bomb as he falls down instead of his up-b.
but yah, it would be WAY to time consuming to attempt pacifist on yoshi team on Very Hard difficulty. On very easy, its very easy to get.
EDIT: just watched the mario bros vid, YOU DIDNT GET THE TAUNT BONUS!!! XD oh well..
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I didn't have time to get the taunt, since I used the cutter. I believe it saved the seconds it would've taken to kill Mario some other way and still spend time trying to get on land to taunt. I think nailing both Bros. Calamity and True Friend makes up for the missing taunt.
I must say, that was an extremely difficult level. antd, you were right- you did choose the easier run :P
Mario Bros. WMV
