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Joined: 11/30/2006
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I meant to ask do you NEED to use the cutter to get onto the 4th platform(right after the rock form) or would it be faster to puff your way to it, then use a jump to possibly get ont he moving stone up to the fifth platform?(sry for posting so much lol) If you think about it, you reallly dont need to use a cutter for the 4th platform since u got to wait for that stone to get there anyway.,...I was wondering if just jumping to it right from rock form would be faster then a cutter.
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Hm, um, I don't know how many 'floats' are possible from that section, or if indeed that would A) let me reach the platform or B) let me get the moving platform because it'll definetly take longer to float up then with a cutter. It's worth trying though. It does seem that the last 2-3 floats lose a lot of velocity. Edit: Yes it's possible to float up to there. No, it does not let me reach the moving platform, because the last floats lose velocity. I'll try again with aerial a moves, but those seem to be dependent on the velocity that you're going at. I can cutter up to the moving platform, but I miss the platform I'm supposed to land on. And using cutter the way I do is fine, since I have to wait for the second moving platform anyway. All I get is slightly more time to wait.
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is there a reason behind sucking up the opponent while still on the platform instead of jumping off the cliff then sucking up the opponent?
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if kirby has an enemy in his mouth and he goes below the bottom stage boundary, he dies, not the enemy. That's why you have to wait a bit before you drop down with the enemy in kirby's mouth, so kirby spits him back out at the last second.
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almost true: for Link and G. DK they are not automatic kills against the enemy if you hit the bottom with them still in your mouth. For Pikachu and Metal Mario it is. I can jump and suck with Pikachu and Metal Mario, to try and get to the bottom of the screen as fast as possible, but Link and DK require me to wait for the exact moment on the edge, because if I fall one frame to soon or early, I'll spit him out too early, losing time, or getting unsuccessful, or spit out too late, when I'm already dead. Waiting on the ledge makes me spit out Link/DK without harming them, and it takes a few seconds for that to happen, thus I wait on the edge and get "wobbled" off. If I were to spit out or copy DK or Link by hitting A or B, it deals damage to them, making me lose Pacifist.
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comicalflop wrote:
I am NOT counting the debate to use Pacifist in every single stage, as I have stated before it's going against my highest score in shortest time goal and would greatly decrease the entertainment.
I was under the impression that this was a pure score attack? AntD is already doing a time attack, so I fail to see the point of having something in between. What is "highest score in shortest time?"
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it's a compromise between the two, although I would say his run is more inclined towards the shortest time goal.
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I would still say this is a highest score run. I mean, the time you would comprimise trying to get pacifist on yoshiteam kirbyteam, and some others would be no match for the bonuses you would get for speed demon and saved time, and damage bonus. I also think it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get pacifist on Mario Bros stage along with true friend and bros calamity, because the other cpu would most likely go after your ally no matter what.
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laughing_gas and psychotic worm, good synopsis. The fact alone that technically I'm beating psychoticworm's video, which is itself a "highest score" run, here is a VERY indepth explanation of the difference you point out of highest score time attack and highest possible score: This is a little tricky and something a little hard to explain. There are a large number of bonuses, making combinations of bonuses quite possible. Also, it is possible to get more bonus points with more time; however, I opted to get the most points per stage in as short amount of time as possible. This differs from a fastest time attack, where the goal is to have the opponent beaten in as little time as possible, skipping the bonuses, with the shortest final time after having beaten Master Hand. In order to make my run fast and interesting, I'm trying to make a high score time attack, to get the highest score in the shortest amount of time. While you get points for beating the opponent fast, you get more points for getting the bonuses, as is evident if you compare the final score of nico's run vs. psychoticworm's final score. Mathematically, you get 50 bonus points for each second, so each second wasted is 50 points. However, that is offset by the bonus points that you can get if you wait for certain circumstances to occur. For instance, I calculated that, for the Arwing clear of 4,000 points (on the lower end of bonus points), you'd have 80 seconds before the time wasted to get the bonus outpaces the bonus points from Arwing clear. I decided that, making such sacrifices of time to get other bonuses was not what I wanted. I wanted a time attack of high score, because it would be more interesting, fast paced, and entertaining to see what redicilously high score can be gotten in such a short amount of time. It is totally a personal choice, and the superior one IMO at that since this is a timeattack site. Now, let me compare it to StarFox 64, where Vidar is working on a high score run. Starfox 64 is a mostly sidescrolling game, where you can't really control your speed, besides breaking and boosting, although you have waiting periods for those; in general, it's a sidescroller, and you for the most part cannot beat the game faster than intended. With Super Smash Bros., you have a time limit of 5 minutes per stage, and depending on your skill you can beat it in as little as 10 seconds or it could take you the whole 5 minutes. But, based on skill you CAN decrease the amount of time it takes. so therefore, scorewise you could either try to, in the 5 minute limit, try to get as high a score as possible, but unlike StarFox64 you can beat it extremely fast. It is beacuse of the 5 minute limit that two goals exist: highest score in fastest time (because, based on skill you can get a high score in a low time) and highest possible score in the 5 minute time limit. I chose the more time attack oriented goal of highest score in lowest time. So higher scores than what I'm achieving are possible, but you must waste time to do so. Also, my run is competetive- if someone gets a higher score in a less amount of time than I do. Therefore, it is a solid goal for this game. I hope that clears it up, sorry for it being so long and wordy but it hits the nail on the head of what my run is about. The fact that I am going to by default get the highest score, as compared to what anyone else has got (seeing as psychoticworm holds the record of 2.4 million), is just icing on the cake. unless someone makes a dedicated run going for the absolute highest score possible without bothering about time, then it's similarly going to hold the higest score title. when I'm done, I might consider doing this, since I proved that the two are seperate categories. 1: Fastest time 2: Highest Score in shortest amount of time 3: Highest physically possible score in any amount of time. as I mentioned, and this is probably the most important point, so I'll reiterate, since these are all competitive, that makes each it's own category. Someone could A) try to get the fastest time possible, as antd is doing to beat nico, B) try to get the highest score in the lowest time, as I'm doing to beat psychoticworm, or C) get the highest score that the game can produce.
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do you know how much extra time you still have to get speed demon? If there is a lot you could use it to rack up damage points to samus or metal mario, or for the aforementioned random occurences like the arwing. You're going for acid clear against samus, right?
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I totally agree with comical flop. it really is a time attack/highest score combined. this is evident in levels where taking your time to get other bonus3es doesnt matter, because those bonuses dont exist. For examople, BtT BtP and RttF dont give you any extra bonuses ever for attempting to get other bonuses. Therefore it only makes sense to do those particular types of levels in the fastest times possible. because it also results in the highest score possible. Plus a 30 minute long video of actually going for a real highest score possible would get boring, and would lose my attention really fast. What comicalflop is trying to attempt keeps people intrigued. I believe the entertainment value of this vid once its done will far surpass a vid going for ONLY highest score. In fact from my slight calculations, an ultimate high score only vid wouldn't beat comicalflops score by much...thuis less impressive. SO STOP WHINING. EDIT: arwing clear would sacrafice other more valuable bonuses he would have gotten from that 1 level like speedster for that particular level and of course time saved like he mentioned...far more points then arwing.
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laughing_gas wrote:
do you know how much extra time you still have to get speed demon? If there is a lot you could use it for some damage points to samus or metal mario, or for the aforementioned random occurences like the arwing. You're going for acid clear against samus, right?
I actually don't know, although I do know I have plenty of time for the two suggestions you make. Samus I am planning on doing a lot of damage and doing the most entertaining combo + acid clear possible. Metal Mario, since pacifist is doable and easy, would far outpace any other method of damaging. (samus pacifist is not doable. Samus is crafty, and while an acid clear + pacifist is theoretical, it's not practical at all.) Acid clear is only 1,500 points anyways, so maybe it's not that big a deal, although would look the coolest and does seem to ensure a star finish. Arwing clear is totally not worth it. I tested it, and I had to wait over 20 seconds for it to appear, and it was not in a very good position to kill Fox. I had to wait for it to appear again before Fox died. the 8 second pacifist had a much faster time, and a very similar score. another thing I forgot to mention which is big was entertainment. This is a huge thing on this website, since technically we're cheating by using tools, so we make the movies as entertaining as possible. speed is in 99.9% of cases entertaining, and it's no different here. an 8 second of Fox pacifist is going to, I guarantee, be more entertaining than a 30 second of Kirby goofing around waiting for Fox to get Arwing-afied. Same with the Yoshi stage. The pacifist stages that I do are entertaining because they are done so quickly. Who would've thought you could beat extremely tough opponents like Giant DK and, gawd, Metal Mario in under 6 seconds? and Pikachu we knew died easily, but in 2 seconds?!?
psychoticworm wrote:
SO STOP WHINING.
he was right to bring this up though, because it was not addressed at the time that I A) started this run and B) mentioned this term 'high score time attack'. Since the shorthand term of calling my run is SSB high score run, it does seem a little deceptive since higher score ARE possible. so his opinion was justified, but hopefully we've got it all cleared now.
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I couldn't have said it better myself, comicalflop.
Signature under contruction, still.
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There's more to my arguments than just increasing my post count and upping my high post/day ratio :P Kirby stage should be done today, and possibly Samus as well. if not, the weekend is coming up soon. I look foward to when antd can start work on the fastest completion run again, it's possible he'll find a fast way to beat Samus that I may not notice going in, since we'll both be comboing Samus to rack up damage %. My plan is to get speedster, hawk (this'll be hard, limiting me to only the aerial A's and Cutter/Stone), acid clear, star finish, and whatever bonus points for Samus's % damage.
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I think 4:58 is the absolute fastest you can beat metal mario http://download.yousendit.com/97C421B6710B7DC1 Of course, you could do that or go for damage points. EDIT: nvm, damage points makes you lose the pacifist bonus
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That's a great strategy. It'll be interesting to see if 5:59 is possible. Metal Mario Manipulation is going to be essential, I have now 3 vids of different ways to get mario to jump soon. I'll definetly find the fastest since I can rerecord until I get the perfect Mario movement.
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the only way I see 4:59 being possible is if as soon as the round begins, both you and metal mario do a backflip to the left, you suck him up while he's in midair, then fall off the stage boundary.
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So did my idea about a different platform order not pan out?
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
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it did... I don't even think getting platform #10 second to last and getting #6 last is possible, it is quite a distance to go and Kirby's last floats lose a lot of velocity. While I could cathc the first moving platform by skipping #6, I don't think it'd save time, since A) it would take a lot of time to reach platform #6 if done last and B) I don't think it's possible. I haven't started Kirby Team yet, so if anyone wants to prove me wrong go ahead... Plus, I beat the world record anyways.
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Just a random thing, but in SSBM, if you had them in your mouth when you fell of the bottom, they would sometimes die first. It depended on which direction you were facing when you got to the bottom. In different levels, you needed to face a different direction. You probably tried this already, but maybe it's true for this version as well.
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That's not true in the original. As psychotic worm found out, For Metal Mario and Pikachu they are instant kills if you swallow them and still have them in your mouth. For Link, DK, Fox and the others, this is not the case. Oopsie, I realized I had a full 3 hours to play around with Kirby level... I could've been finished with that stage by now. I'll try to get back to working on this tonight.
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comicalflop wrote:
an 8 second of Fox pacifist is going to, I guarantee, be more entertaining than a 30 second of Kirby goofing around waiting for Fox to get Arwing-afied.
I would actually say that watching 30 seconds of insane damage-dealing combos would be far more entertaining than just watching Fox kill himself. For your second run/redo of this game, I would give more thought to getting a higher score at the cost of time in some places such as Fox. I can understand how boring Yoshi Team would be, but there may be other places where going for pure score can be more entertaining than you think.
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thegreginator wrote:
I would actually say that watching 30 seconds of insane damage-dealing combos would be far more entertaining than just watching Fox kill himself.
That goes without saying. But for my high score, a quick pacifist is more entertaining than a prolonged one.
thegreginator wrote:
For your second run/redo of this game, I would give more thought to getting a higher score at the cost of time in some places such as Fox. I can understand how boring Yoshi Team would be, but there may be other places where going for pure score can be more entertaining than you think.
A redo of THIS run would be a higher score in a shorter time, fixing any tiny mistakes I made and keeping most of the same strategies while trying to improve slightly on time and improve on score where it wouldn't lose time. But there's also the possibility of me doing a highest possible score after that redo.
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I just got a 23 second Kirby Team fight, getting a score of 1079121 because of no item, shooter, speedster, no miss x7, no damage, full power, smashless, single move, fighter stance, and kirby ranks. I can get an additional 18,000 from hawk if I redo to make sure all attacks are aerial, because I think I mess up in one or two spots. But how's that for a killer Kirby stage? This actually proves that I wouldn't get speedster in the Yoshi stage from this strategy, since the 8 Kirby's took a while to die and I was 7 seconds above the speedster mark, and they were very crafty in dodging my attacks most of the time. So thank God I'm not going to redo, because redoing the Yoshi stage was one of the main reasons for restarting, but now I know it'd net in +1,000 points in less time., which goes against my high score timeattack goal. Edit: actually the cutter projectile is an instant Yoshi killer, so actually it is possible. It'll be featured in an improvd version if I ever decide to improve it again. I also had to manipulate them to suicide by either giving up or using their b move, depending on where I was, which is why I move about on the playing field. Kirby Stage Test Run .m64 of course Link Kirby, #3, had to be the one to mess up aerial :P it couldn't have been one of the later ones, oh no...
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I think it looks very good. Nice work!
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