Topic by Zurreco

Posted: 12/8/2006 11:19 PM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

Where is the 'end' of the run, exactly? Is it when the you clear the Master Hand score tally, or is it after you get past the 'you win' screen after the credits?

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Posted: 12/8/2006 11:42 PM

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XkyRauh

He/Him

Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California

I understand this may be a bit late, but I recall manipulating Samus's AI to attempt to Screw Attack (up+B) me from the lower right of the level, (I was jumping up/around/through the moving platform off the right side of the level,) causing her to plummet into the lava below. It's a Pacifist victory in very short time, depending on where the lava is--and with manipulation, it shouldn't be too hard, right? Try fooling around with Kirby's placement in the air relative to Samus when she's in the lower right part of the level. :)

Posted: 12/9/2006 12:08 AM

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antd

Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain

I wasn't planning on completing it by this weekend. You should submit yours when you finish though. I think you should end after defeating master hand. So, no shooting credits + Ness fight.

Posted: 12/9/2006 2:14 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

Yep, I'm planning on ending right after Master Hand fight. It should be done this weekend. The 'end', i.e. last input, is going to be the last button press needed to get from the score tally to the cutscene where Kirby is revealed to be a doll. Or, it could possibly be a last hit against Master Hand, a look at nico's first submission will reveal that. Whichever, it's not going to do Ness fight or unnescessary scrolling through credits. About Samus, at 0% it takes so long for her to die off the screen. I have, through playing this game so many times, never seen Samus at 0% die from the lava- she always manages to find her way back to the platform. What I do is faster, breaks the monotony, and still gets a kind of close score. As per the run's "goals" if a pacifist kill were possible in 14 seconds, then that's what I would have done, but the lava ruins everything by making a pacifist kill take so frickin' long, wherein with the strategy I used it gives me an extra 11500 points in a short amount of time, and, IMO is entertaining. Polygon team is going to be done the same as Yoshi Team. I'm going to in submission text make a huge explanation for why the Kirby team was done differently than Yoshi/Polygon. In fact, expect the submission text to be very long in general, for I'm quite wordy. Edit: Final input is going to be the button press that makes the tally score go to the credits. For the encoders, I was right, Ness won't appear after the "INCREDIBLE!" unless you press a button, so no accidental going to the Ness fight. If anybody has any strategies for Masterhand before I get there, feel free to think them up/test them out as I do polygon team. All the youtube Links are up- I'm lazy so I'm not going to list the links for them all. youtube links- Comicalflop's videos you'll see theme asily enough. hehe I got a terminal mine very early on, so expect a booby trap final kill. Hopefully that won't nullify hawk if I throw it from the air, and should give me a booby trap bonus. wait a minute, a booby trap cannot have the last polygon end with a trickster finish, since I have never seen an explosion make them go up... CRAP!! um, I guess sacrifing 10,000 points for 12,000 is ok. I'll redo if not.

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Posted: 12/9/2006 3:41 AM

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laughing_gas

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Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp

Against master hand, do the jump + Down A attack as many times as you can, then when he goes into attack mode do a rock drop (while you're inside him). Cancel out of rock as soon as soon as he's past you, rinse and repeat. Another strategy, although I'm unsure whether it'll work every time, is to use jump + Down A or jump + Forward A attacks continuously, since when master hand goes into attack mode there's a small area where you can attack him and not get hurt. If he does one of his "come from background to hit you" attacks just use the rock drop on him as he flies by and then go back to jump + Down A attacks.

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Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

Posted: 12/9/2006 3:53 AM
(Edited: 12/9/2006 4:28 AM)

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

I'm having some difficulty in the polygon fight, in that I don't know what to do strategy wise for score. I was using cutters, and sending them into the sky and now I have a proximity mine for the last kill, but DK requires a stone, as do a few more opponents that are in tricky spots who do not die instantly from one cutter. Likely the mine + stone will ruin the trickster, but hopefully the booby trap will make up for that, would the differences in attack consistency decrease the quality? This is nowhere as easy as Yoshi Team where they all fell in place and double kills made the pattern very easy. ok, so I'll do cutters +stones where nescessary, and throw a proximity mine for the final kill and see what score I get. If it's good, on to Master Hand. If not, redo.

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Posted: 12/9/2006 4:00 AM

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NrgSpoon

Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646

I'm not sure about SSB, but in SSBM attack strength loses its effectiveness the more you use the same one. So, if you find yourself doing less damage, make sure you're not using the same attack the whole way.

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Posted: 12/9/2006 4:01 AM

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laughing_gas

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Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp

In SSB attacks do the same damage no matter how many times you use it.

Borg Collective wrote:

Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

Posted: 12/9/2006 4:30 AM
(Edited: 12/9/2006 5:23 AM)

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Comicalflop

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Joined: 6/13/2006
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correct. the only thing that seems lost is the lower that stone falls the less the enemies go, and the more you use one attack, the more likely you'll get cheap shot, but I think that's only against one opponent. And I'm using cutter + stone not for it's damaging power, but it's ability to send them off the screen. ok, so I finished... and forgot to use the proximity mine! here's what I got without it: no item (because I need to have thrown it) hawk no damage no miss x 10 full power smashless special move fighter stance what I need to do is figure out how to incorporate that proximity mine for another 12,000 points. ideas? I have two polygons falling down at the same time, do I plant it and cutter/stone them into it? ok, so apparently the booby trap bonus does not work at all. I planted the bomb, and hit the last polygon right into it, and KABOOM! no bonus. huh? So, I'm probably just going to head onto to Master Hand. I'm holding the mine throughout the whole fight, but grabbing the mine manipulated one of the enemies to exactly where I wanted him to be, so I'm not counting it as a mistake. and I can redo the last section if someone can find out what triggers booby trap bonus. Polygon Team test run .m64

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Posted: 12/9/2006 5:22 AM

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JSmith

Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428

comicalflop wrote:

what I need to do is figure out how to incorporate that proximity mine for another 12,000 points. ideas? I have two polygons falling down at the same time, do I plant it and cutter/stone them into it?

If you want to be flashy, cutter 'em up into it. Otherwise, it would look impressive if you suck one of them in in midair, drop level with the other one to mine level and spit one into the other (KOing the non-spat one with the spat one) onto the mine (which then explodes, possibly on both). Suck-and spit does 37% total double mine damage. How much does Cutter do? For bonus points, you can cutter up an earlier DK, suck-and spit it into both falling ones, then have the mine blow up all three. (60% damage plus minex3... more points than No Item) EDIT:I think you may have to kill all of them with proximity mines to get the bonus...

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Posted: 12/9/2006 5:35 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA

the edit you made makes sense. That would explain it, because I clearly followed the rule of the last one hitting a planted mine and no bonus. So I am going to redo the level, taking out the grabbed mine because it looks like a mistake, and redo a lot of the ways I kill enemies because at the beginning I was clearly trying to make sure that everyone got sent into the background, and halfway I realized that was impossible so I started killing them in new ways. I hate redoing, but here it is definetly nescessary. Expect more stone, and keeping cutters to kill enemies that are near the top. What I have to avoid is having the projectile part of cutter hit anyone, because that nullifies my hawk bonus.

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Posted: 12/9/2006 6:13 AM

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JSmith

Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428

I'd like to see you suck one polygon in and spit 'em at someone else, possibly multiple elses and possibly onto a live Bob-omb. Also, (you're probably tired of hearing this by now but) try to manipulate a Star Clear. EDIT: and if the spit trick sends DK off the top, so much the better.

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Posted: 12/9/2006 6:17 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA

I'm just gonna stick with using all cutter+ stone, because it's hard enough as it is killing them as fast as possible, although yeah getting a star clear would be nice. In my attempt to improve I seem to be behind on time? hm? I'll see if that's really true or not, this fight might take me a while to optimize, and my test run may be what I go with if I cannot produce anything better. OK, couldn't do all suggestions, but got 4:03, no mistakes, with a score of 1529911. Polygon Team v2 .m64

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Posted: 12/9/2006 8:17 AM

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Comicalflop

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Run's complete. Just beat the Master Hand in a good time.... I hope you like the down+a drill attack, because I use it solely for speed and to get Hawk bonus. Now I'm gonna write up the submission text, because it's going to be very long, and then wait for antd, I know you want me to submit now but unless you have another week going I think they should be submitted at the same time for coolness factor.

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Posted: 12/9/2006 8:20 AM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

Final score?

Posted: 12/9/2006 8:24 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA

Final Score: 2,554,881. 135,638 higher than psychoticworm's vid. Total in game time: 4 minutes 13 seconds 0h 8m 8.083s (29285 frames) movie length Rerecord count: 5796

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Posted: 12/9/2006 8:37 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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laughing_gas wrote:

In SSB attacks do the same damage no matter how many times you use it.

Actually, at least in training mode, I found that the damage you deal goes down when you use the same attack multiple times in a row. But maybe that doesn't apply when you hit multiple opponents, since I never tested that.

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Posted: 12/9/2006 8:42 AM

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Comicalflop

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Joined: 6/13/2006
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I never noticed any of my attacks doing less damage to multiple opponents, and definetly at the Master Hand all my down drill attacks did the same damage- in fact I made sure that each drill does its maximum damage, which is around 30%. And that's trainer's mode, I don't know if that affects anything or not. any screenshot suggestions?

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Posted: 12/9/2006 4:33 PM

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laughing_gas

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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- The screen where Giant DK dies after 5 seconds - The screen where metal mario dies in 2 seconds - The screen where pikachu dies in two seconds - The screen where fox jetpacks over you to his doom - The screen where you do the up + B right before Link dies - The screen where you kill a lot of yoshis using up + B

Borg Collective wrote:

Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

Posted: 12/9/2006 5:57 PM

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Comicalflop

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Location: Massachussetts, USA

I was personally thinking of one of the fighter's stance screenshots just before the score tally. It'd be hard for screenshots of what you describe, because those are a little too action packed where you need to see the level in real time to get what is going on. I tried to use the camera angles and such to set up some funny Kirby moments, so maybe the funniest fighter stance. Meh, we can debate it in the workbench once I submit. Speaking of which... wait for antd, or submit now?

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Posted: 12/9/2006 6:09 PM

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