Topic by EscapePlan9

Posted: 1/13/2006 8:06 AM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

While recording a few more tracks on Bogmire I quickly realized... damn I have to do 8 tracks each division here! If I recall correctly, the highest points required on Inferno planet to advance is 3200, or 8 first places. So thankfully no more than 8 tracks a division! I'm struggling to find more ways to vary the run, and the game is going to become even more repetitive (doing 16 tracks a planet instead of 8 or 10). Any suggestions for Bogmire and beyond? So far I've managed to keep Bogmire entertaining, but that's becoming more and more difficult with each track I complete.

Posted: 1/13/2006 11:53 AM

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Dromiceius

Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332

Damn, that was some smooth marauding you did. The last race on Draconis was hilarious. If you keep acting like a lunatic it'll probably continue to be entertaining. :) I was going to suggest having the enemies push you around for an entire lap, but you kinda did that already.

Posted: 1/14/2006 11:57 PM

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daniayaw

Former player

Joined: 7/29/2005
Posts: 459
Location: Brazil

what was that jump closed to frame 123400? it looked really crappy XD

<small>My big signature was cleared by admin; i should read <a href="http://tasvideos.org/ForumRules.html">forum rules</a>. But... who does?</small>

Posted: 1/15/2006 1:17 AM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

The one on Bogmire where I randomly do a 180 jump? It was mostly a "look how far ahead of you I am, I can even do this!". It also allowed the AI to catch up a bit.

Posted: 1/15/2006 6:36 AM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

Bogmire division B is now complete! I wish I could just skip division A. Some highlights and things to look for: Track 1: Mostly me just messing around in first place. I make use of a programming error by approaching turbo arrows at an angle to increase speed and distance. Track 2: The classic shortcut map. I only use the shortcut on the first two laps, and I zig-zag through it. On the last two laps, I had to tone down a little on the risky moves since it became difficult to catch up with the AI nitroing through bumpy terrain. I found out that blowing up the AI gave me a bigger lead than taking the shortcut, so I used the long-route for the final two laps. Track 3: I start off with a MK-esque juggle combo on Wart. The rest is similar to my play on other tracks. Track 4: I make a couple more uses of the turbo programming error. In retrospect, I could have easily sent someone the wrong way on this track. Track 5: Speaking of sending people the wrong way... check out the last two laps here! Especially my timing on the final lap. I also end the race differently than usual. Track 6: I bump Rip and Shred off the track over a jump. I also force everyone in the wrong direction. Track 7: More turbo arrow programming bug usage. And I finish the race differently. Track 8: I accidentally stumble upon another programming bug. Right at the start you'll see me jump up and fire 5 missiles, but when I land, I have all 7 missiles again! It's almost like I already finished a lap and got a reload. I'll have to make more use of this bug on future tracks. I now can fire up to 12 missiles on the first lap - on this track I only fire 10, Both times destroying cars at full health (5 shots each). On track 8, I also make use of a programming error where if you hit the jump-jet button at a certain area over a jump, your car will ride down the other side of the jump with considerable speed instead of fly over it. It's similar to taking a ramp like a rollercoaster, up and down the hill. ****************************** For the sake of everyone who has been following the run up to this point, I have uploaded my savestate that starts right at the beginning of Bogmire. This will save you from having to fast-forward forever. Make sure you place it in the directory with your other save-states, and name it the same as your rom. Then just play the movie in read-only and load save-state slot 3 (where I saved it). Download the save-state here: http://detachd9.homestead.com/files/video/bogmire_ss.zip Download the run here: http://detachd9.homestead.com/files/video/rrr115.zip I'm struggling to find more ways to vary my run in Bogmire. Any suggestions there (or on future planets) would be greatly appreciated.

Posted: 1/15/2006 7:10 AM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

Some of my thoughts and critiques on my overall run so far... 1) My menus are not optimized. The way I handle menus is similar to speed-runs compared to tool-assisted runs. It's still faster than SDA, but not quite up to par with TAR. I'm certainly not going back through and re-doing every menu now. Call it laziness to not want to do another 20 hours of work again because my menus aren't frame-perfect. I hope this doesn't seriously affect my chances of getting this run published. 2) I have vague goals. I will place first on every track using the worst car on the toughest difficulty, while aiming for entertainment instead of speed. To accomplish this, I make use of programming errors, play extremely aggressively, do many complicated stunts requiring precise timing, and use various measures to manipulate the AI into catching up. That's the best I've come up with so far - I hope it's acceptable. 3) Very little in my run is planned out ahead of time. That is, I improvise by adapting to every situation I am confronted with and trying to figure out ways to make them entertaining. Even on tracks like the Drakonis one where I gain a lapping bonus on everyone and I know well ahead of time what I'd need to do to accomplish this feat, I still had to adapt to the situations to see when I could push them the wrong way and how much it would slow me down. 4) Bogmire and beyond have too many tracks. There's nothing I can do about this. I have to complete 8 tracks per division on each planet before I can advance to the next (and those 8 tracks repeat). I worry this will make the run too repetitive. 5) This run is taking me forever to complete and the finished run will be over three hours. I am currently averaging 30 minutes to finish a track. This doesn't include me rewinding and re-watching various parts of the run. I've watched through the entire run a few times as well. The finished run will probably be a little less than 3 hours. I have 26 tracks complete in 48 minutes, which is roughly 1.85 minutes per track. There are 82 tracks in the game (8 on Chem, 10 on Drak, 16 on Bog, Mojave, NHO, and Inferno), which means at the current rate I will finish every track in 152 minutes. Add to this.. between every track there will be a few seconds to navigate through menus (upgrades, starting new race, advancing to next planet or division, etc), so I wouldn't be surprised if the final run ends up close to 3 hours. ****** Current movie stats: Length- 48:40 Rerecords- 4501

Posted: 1/15/2006 9:53 AM

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Simon

Joined: 1/1/2006
Posts: 6

I realize you've comitted to the Maurader, but if you're concerned about repetition, perhaps you could switch cars for the second run through the next two planets? You can still switch back to the Maurader right up until you advance to NHO, and it would be a change of pace to see you play with missiles, turbos and mines for a few races. It also might make NHO more varied, because the first run through the planet, you'd be driving a barebones starter car, with no handling even when it's not on the ice, against completely souped-up opponents.

Posted: 1/15/2006 11:49 AM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Simon wrote:

I realize you've comitted to the Maurader, but if you're concerned about repetition, perhaps you could switch cars for the second run through the next two planets? You can still switch back to the Maurader right up until you advance to NHO, and it would be a change of pace to see you play with missiles, turbos and mines for a few races.

I think this is a bad idea. If he switches to a better car he would lose all of his good and expensive features of the Marauder like a better engine, defender, Tires etc. If he switches back to the Marauder later it looks pretty stupid and he must buy all the upgrades again. But again, it's up to EscapePlan.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 1/15/2006 4:53 PM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

Thanks for the suggestion. But like Saturn said, I don't think it'll work out well. I'd lose all my upgrades on the Marauder, which actually would make NHO impossible. If I switch to the Airblade, there goes one of my goals, and plus, I'd have to start with one missile, one nitro, and upgrade from there. There's not much I can do from there.

Posted: 1/15/2006 5:18 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Just watched the update. Looks nice and entertaining, the only thing I could suggest is to not use the zig-zag drive too often. It looks cool but if you repeat it frequently it becomes a bit annoying. It's just me. Also if you aim for entertainment over speed isn't it a good idea to show at least one planet-switch scenario (where you fly with the rocket). This scene looks really nice IMO. However if you think the last one after Inferno is enough then it doesn't matter of course. And most Important: The movie desyncs for me at around frame 168000 in the beginning of the race right after you bought new tires. I tested it on Snes9x v6, v7 and v8 with same result. You should check it yourself to not record further until you fixed this desync.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 1/15/2006 6:40 PM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

Good point about the zig-zagging. I'll try to keep it in line. I'll keep the planet switch scenario for Inferno. Thanks for the idea! Thanks for alerting me to the possible desync. However, I'm still unable to reproduce the desync. Here's what I have checked: WIP1 Timing Volume Envelope Height Reading Sync Samples With Sound CPU I know this sounds like a stupid question, but are you sure it's desyncing? I start off the next race doing something quite unusual (as I marked on my comments on track 8), which perhaps looks like a desync. But if you watch the track in entirety, you'll see it was intentional. If you have all those settings checked and it still desyncs, I'll have to re-do it. I'm glad you caught it early!

Posted: 1/15/2006 7:04 PM

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Branford

Joined: 1/15/2006
Posts: 6

EscapePlan9, i just watch the movie and it didn't desync for me. There's no problem with the smv file. Good job! ;)

Posted: 1/15/2006 8:52 PM
(Edited: 1/15/2006 9:19 PM)

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

hmmm very strange. Only reason could be that I loaded the playback from a wrong savestate which I did myself at around frame 111000 and until 168000 it did well. I try playbacking it from beginning without any savestates and if it still desyncs I will make a AVI of how the desync look like. The settings I use are the same as you told me. WIP1, volume envelope and sound samples BTW. EDIT: It was indeed a bad savestate. It's very strange that the playback was correct such a long time though. After playbacking the movie from beginning and after loading other savestates the movie was in sync all the time. It was my bad. Just in case someone want to see the desync or maybe find a reason why it has happend just load this savestate while playbacking EscapePlans movie. http://rapidshare.de/files/11122430/Rock_N__Roll_Racing__U_.002.html

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 1/15/2006 9:11 PM

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Branford

Joined: 1/15/2006
Posts: 6

Saturn wrote:

hmmm very strange. Only reason could be that I loaded the playback from a wrong savestate which I did myself at around frame 111000 and until 168000 it did well. I try playbacking it from beginning without any savestates and if it still desyncs I will make a AVI of how the desync look like. The settings I use are the same as you told me. WIP1, volume envelope and sound samples BTW.

Maybe is it. I watched the movie from beginning...

Posted: 1/17/2006 4:46 PM

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daniayaw

Former player

Joined: 7/29/2005
Posts: 459
Location: Brazil

any progress?!^^

<small>My big signature was cleared by admin; i should read <a href="http://tasvideos.org/ForumRules.html">forum rules</a>. But... who does?</small>

Posted: 1/18/2006 1:58 AM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

I've completed a couple more tracks in Division A. Remember the bug I found out on the last track in Division B where right at the start I jump, shoot 5 missiles and end up with 7 when I land? Well, so far I haven't been able to reproduce that bug on any other track. I don't know why it's only specific to the short-cut track so far. What an odd programming bug. I'll post the next vid when I finish division A.

Posted: 1/23/2006 7:20 AM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

I know it's been a while... I just returned to school last week. To say the least, life has been hectic. A lot of my free time is spent with my friends and neighbors, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Anyhow... I've completed another couple tracks, but still haven't finished Division A of Bogmire. I'm not feeling very inspired to complete these Division A's - 16 tracks per planet is too much! But I'm not giving up the run yet. I'll keep on truckin', just it will take me longer than expected.

Posted: 1/23/2006 8:02 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

EscapePlan9 wrote:

I know it's been a while... I just returned to school last week. To say the least, life has been hectic. A lot of my free time is spent with my friends and neighbors, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Anyhow... I've completed another couple tracks, but still haven't finished Division A of Bogmire. I'm not feeling very inspired to complete these Division A's - 16 tracks per planet is too much! But I'm not giving up the run yet. I'll keep on truckin', just it will take me longer than expected.

No problem, I often have the same situation. Let you time as much as you need (I need 1/2 year per good TAS) just don't give up this run please.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 1/26/2006 10:44 PM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

AGHHH!!! I've learned a valuable lesson today. Make backups of your movie after you finish vital areas. I accidentally played the movie and then hit save-record before loading the save-state. Now I really am uninspired to complete this run! My run now reads that it is 159 frames long, so I have to go back to the last run that I uploaded, which was up to the start of Division A, I believe. This complication just set me back another 3-4 hours.

Posted: 1/27/2006 5:17 AM

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Dromiceius

Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332

AGHHH! I feel for you, man. :)

Make backups of your movie after you finish vital areas. I accidentally played the movie and then hit save-record before loading the save-state.

I think I've had that happen to me... did you press one of the F-keys and it saved instead of loading?

Posted: 1/27/2006 8:31 PM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

Like most of you, I reconfigure a lot of the hotkeys for recording movies. This if my layout: q = save state 0 (used for non-read only) w = load state 0 t = save state 1 (used for read only) y = load state 1 pause = pause emulation I know I don't need to use separate states for read-only and non-read only, but I use it as a precautionary measure so I don't accidentally save over the wrong state. That's also the reason I don't use the ER keys, they're too easy to accidentally hit. So here's what I ended up doing: Was about to re-record a certain part, so I replayed in read-only, loaded the most recent state (in slot 1) and saved before I wanted to make the change. I now replay the movie and hit pause - q - w - pause. Then I suddenly realize I forgot to load the state first! The intro starts playing and there you have it... the 6 tracks I finished in division A were GONE! When I attempt to load the movie save-states back it tells me I am unable to, and the run becomes 159 frames long.

Posted: 1/27/2006 8:39 PM

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JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Depending on how much data was lost, it may be fixable. Loading a run changes the number of frames immediately, but not the content of those frames. You can try using a hex-editor to change the number of frames to what your run used to be. Then play the run, and load one of your backup savestates that is currently giving you the "unable to load" error. As long as your number of frames is larger than whatever frame that savestate was on, it should be able to load the run. If you need help, let me know. Just don't erase anything yet.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 1/27/2006 8:46 PM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

Oddly enough, this setback has actually inspired me to finish Bogmire quicker. The past few days I've continued the run and I've now finished the first three tracks of Division A. Through some combination of becoming more proficient at TARs, having more experience with the the tracks, and the frustration with having to re-do this, I've been able to complete tracks about 10 minutes faster than usual (all the while ensuring each track meets my standards for entertainment). In my now extinct run, I had some particularly spectacular moments that I hope to be able to reproduce again. In one of them I got a lapping bonus, which is extremely difficult to acquire in Division A of Bogmire. It took me a few hundred re-records for that to work out right. It'll be tough, but I'll try again to acquire a lapping bonus. I also used a new way of harassing and insulting my opposition. Wart would be slightly ahead of me and about to make a few consecutive turns before heading over a ramp on the upper-level. What I would do is jump-jet onto the upper-level (going the wrong-way temporarily), charge at him full force, fire a fury of missiles, then quickly spin around 180 and pass his destroyed car.

Posted: 1/27/2006 8:50 PM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

JXQ: Ah, didn't know there was a way to fix this problem. Thanks for the help, I'll keep it in mind if I make a big mistake like that again. For now, I'm just continuing the run from my latest backup movie (that I am now backing up more regularly).

Posted: 2/3/2006 8:31 AM

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EscapePlan9

Joined: 12/29/2005
Posts: 119

It's been another week... and I finished another track or two. This project is slowly yet surely getting done, and this time I'm being more careful so I don't have these major setbacks.