Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 632
Location: Seattle, WA
long story short, I'm homeless, so me continuing the improvement like I want is probably a couple months away. I really can't wait to do this, I have so many plans for this run. I'm looking forward to testing a really cool looking facet of the movement glitch to see if it can save time in Area 5 by wrapping myself around the screens, for example. edit--nope, it just leads to a blank zone in programming. Well that's new, I thought it just wrapped around but I guess there was an unused area in the way, bummer.
I got thrown for a loop the last time I was playing the game--somehow, while swimming, I could swear that I was gripped by the ceiling and zipped horizontally about four or five tiles--I can't BELIEVE that I wasn't recording my playing around! I wasn't able to reproduce it at all--that would be a serious find if I can figure out why it happened. It might've been me somehow accidentally hitting the turbo button but I'd want to find any zipping glitch I could find.
Anyway, yes, my interest in this run is still very high, I just reeeeally don't have the ability to work on it.
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 632
Location: Seattle, WA
Final verdict: Only Area 4 can be skipped, the glitch is only otherwise useful for the occasional gain of frames.
The new run will look like the old one, but with better optimization, skipped Area 4, use of the glitch with the bosses to create faster deaths, and some other minor things. Look for it some month soon.
I was messing around with this in level 5 because I think it might be possible to skip level 5 with this door glitch as well.
However, this was as far as I managed to get before the game would bug out on me.
Copy-paste this link for a screenshot
Also, here are some maps you may find helpful. The game loops both vertically and horizontally.
For level 6, if you could find some way to glitch below those destroyable platforms in the second to last room you could take a huge shortcut to the overhead level.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 632
Location: Seattle, WA
Spider-Waffle wrote:
For level 6, if you could find some way to glitch below those destroyable platforms in the second to last room you could take a huge shortcut to the overhead level.
Unfortunately, glitching can only be done with Jason outside the tank, so that can't work--though I have tried in the past. You can glitch around fine, but to get to the boss cave you need the tank. If we're going to use a continue to get the tank back then it might be an improvement to do when leaving Area 6, though--shortcut through that room, go back to the area-door, die, respawn at the entrance from Area 4, die 3 times and respawn at Area 1? Actually, nevermind, it would be faster to save the continue use for Area 4, since we're glitching past Key.
UraniumAnchor wrote:
I was messing around with this in level 5 because I think it might be possible to skip level 5 with this door glitch as well.
However, this was as far as I managed to get before the game would bug out on me.
Copy-paste this link for a screenshot
Also, here are some maps you may find helpful. The game loops both vertically and horizontally.
That was a really awesome try! It's unfortunate Jason just can't jump any higher, because that would be a great skip.
I found out that it IS 'possible' to skip from 2 to 7 with a LOT of effort (you have to climb down from the top of the long vertical room while glitched, using the enemies to slow your drop so you take less damage from falling. It MIGHT be possible.) However, it's not possible to get to the boss' cave without either Hover or Wall1--hmmm, though it appears that there's some hover in one of the other caves... skipping level 4-6 would be awesome, but that drop down would be damned near impossible.
For a reference, go to Cheats... in FCEUX and set $040D to FF. Then, watch this: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/318469287/BMBigSkip.fm2 If we could manage damage somehow, this would work. It's just there's a LOT of falling to work out. --Oh, also, the amount of enemies is a lot larger for real, I was using an old savestate where most of them were shot dead.
Hmm, can you get to level 8 without wall1 though, I mean don't you need to beat lvl6?
What you need to is to find a way to glitch to level 8, then your set.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Could you describe how to do this glitch and what you can do with it? Maybe some other people could use it to find some other shortcuts.
If you look at level3t, you start off very close to the level 8 entrance, you'd just need to glitch down a floor.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
As far as I can tell you can only glitch through doors horizontally. I already tried glitching to the right to get to the level 8 door, but you're one block short of being able to do so and still be in a safe place.
Also if you glitch too far the game seems to get even more confused and you'll frequently get lodged in a wall.
Also, what happens if you get Wall2 without Wall1? Does that even work? Does the game treat you as having both? Actually, I can check by activating the level select that's hidden in the code...
Edit: Wall1 won't activate if you don't have both. I just skipped to the level 7 boss with the debug mode and after picking it up I still couldn't drive on walls, and I drove off corners like you normally do, instead of when you pick up both.
It's amazing how much you can break this game and you still have to do things in the right order.
1 block short, safe place? can you post a movie? And isn't the level entrance to the left of the start of level 3? or did you go half into level 3 and go right?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Copy-paste again
There's a one-frame window where you can jump after coming out of a door (glitched or not) and you end up one block short of where you need to be, in this case. Instead, you fall go splat. Sucks, because I bet you could get over to Level 8 otherwise. Maybe there's some way to extend the jump.
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 632
Location: Seattle, WA
Problem is that, if you look at the exact room where the door to Area 8 is, you'll find you couldn't even make it over to the door as Jason even if you glitch the wall. So at this point, going to Area 6 is still necessary to get to Area 7, which is still necessary to get to 8.
Now I'm curious about what would happen if you beat Area 2 without beating Area 1. Do you just have to go above and around the door guardian every time you pass through, since you don't have the Hyper necessary to kill it?
Glitching down has actually happened to me--if you glitch horizontally 6 times and then mess with the borders between one room and the next (VERY likely to get you stuck in rock, though), I have sometimes come out of it realigned horizontally but graphically shoved one tile down. If this was possible to exploit, maybe popping down a couple tiles and into the room below is possible? And, further, I wonder if glitching 6 times in the OTHER direction results in an upward shift?
Wow, so much potential, just need to figure out these glitches. Couldn't that be used to get to level 8?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Problem is that, if you look at the exact room where the door to Area 8 is, you'll find you couldn't even make it over to the door as Jason even if you glitch the wall. So at this point, going to Area 6 is still necessary to get to Area 7, which is still necessary to get to 8.
My thinking was 'offset the map enough, stand on the doorway, jump, and then reset the map'. I don't think you could glitch it that far even if the map gave you that opportunity, sadly.
Maybe you figured this out already, but you don't need the tank to get to the 5th boss. So you can still die in 3, 5, and 7 for shortcuts, saving the last one for getting back on the right side of the key gate.
What about after lvl6, what is the plan to get to lvl7? Can you use that shortcut as jason?
Of course all of this doesn't matter if someone finds a way to skip to lvl8.
And what about skipping to lvl2 and/or 3?
Or skip to lvl6?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Anyone working on this? How do you do the tricks that let you go through the walls anyway?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Oh yeah!
I humbly suggest, based on the above WIP, consideration of the usage of the European ROM for a "glitched" version of Blaster Master. BM Europe has 3 Jason-only glitches of devastating significance:
1. Pause-unpause resets vertical velocity -- Jason can fall forever without taking damage (noted by Walker Boh in another thread waaaaaaay back in 2004).
2. Experience from Legacy of the Wizard led me to try this -- after a pause-unpause, there is 1 frame on which Jason can jump out of midair! This removes any sort of vertical hurdle to Jason-only travel and -- most importantly -- allows Jason to air jump past the World 3 obstacle leading to World 8, which would normally require the tank with Wall1/2!!
3. The insane vertical zipping (IVZ) noted on a YouTube post by Spooky is easily replicated in the Europe version; it occurs when Jason uses the door glitch to get stuck in walls. Once zipping, various maneuvers can be used to, within limits, direct where Jason ends up.
The above WIP is totally unoptimized but here's a quick summary:
1. Door glitch in 1st corridor of World 1 followed by IVZ -- skips the wall guardian and gets directly to World 2 door.
2. Uses a continue to get the tank back. Beats world 2 normally. Much IVZ testing succeeded in getting to World 7, but not to the tiny entrance to World 3. It might be possible, but I wanted to post this WIP rather than spend 30 hours testing. Beating crabulous gives the Crusher Beam needed to destroy blocks (may end up being necessary for World 8 also, since the final screen in World 8 has similar blocks surrounding the boss door).
3. Uses a continue out of sheer laziness to get back to the start of World 2, travels to World 3 normally, then uses air-jump to get to World 8 as Jason.
4. Uses a continue to get tank back in World 8.
5. Home free!!!
I think an optimized version of the above would result in about an 8-9 minute movie beating the game and would be entertaining enough to justify the ROM switch according to the site rules. Such a run should NOT obsolete the current run, though, or IMO compete against an improvement using only the door glitch to skip World 4.
I also agree that this sounds awesome, and should be an (E) glitched run.
Also, Lord Tom, according to your profile, you are an ER resident. How do you have... any time? Ever? Residents are called such because they... reside at the hospital 24/7.
You are a great TASer, which boggles my mind, being a resident.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Heh, very flattering!
Luckily, the hospital DOES let me out occasionally. I'm a 2nd year resident now, so my typical week is down to about 65 hrs, vs 80 last year...much more reasonable. At this point, having a toddler is probably a more significant challenge to finding time to TAS, but it's my favorite hobby, so I try to jump on the laptop and crank away whenever there's a spare hour.
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 632
Location: Seattle, WA
Amazing finds! A glitched out run like you have planned would be awesome! I'd still like to see a full game run on the side, though, although I guess skipping Area 4 using the door glitch would be a bad idea then.
Did you try any IVZ to skip to world 8 from 3, as it might be faster than the air-jump method.
But really what would be best is IVZ to world 3. Isn't there also some left+up+right glitch involving jason by the tank that can skip you past walls. There was a wip of it a couple pages back.
If you're talking the be blocks in the overhead level right before the plutonium boss I doubt the crusher makes any difference with those, I bet those upgrades are only for the tank, since when you pause it has a picture of the tank labeling the upgrades and jason outside the tank can't shoot the blocks and doesn't get any of the other upgrades the tank gets.
If you really need the crusher to get to lvl3 then what about IVZ to get to end of lvl2 faster?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I'm not sure you understand how the glitch works. Maybe I don't either but judging from what I saw in the video...
The reason it works in level 1 is because you can wedge yourself in that transition section and it shoots you straight up and loops it around to level 2. The door glitch offsets your 'real' position by 1 horizontal tile compared to the 'visual' position. Pausing resets your 'real' position to your 'visual' position.
If you can point out any part of those maps where you can wedge yourself in the wall with the door glitch and trace a line straight up without the wall being interrupted that would let you get to level 8 or 3, but nothing jumps out at me.
And he means the purple blocks in the last tank room. You need crusher for those. I don't think it's possible to glitch over there.
The reason it works in level 1 is because you can wedge yourself in that transition section and it shoots you straight up and loops it around to level 2. The door glitch offsets your 'real' position by 1 horizontal tile compared to the 'visual' position. Pausing resets your 'real' position to your 'visual' position.
If you can point out any part of those maps where you can wedge yourself in the wall with the door glitch and trace a line straight up without the wall being interrupted that would let you get to level 8 or 3, but nothing jumps out at me.
And he means the purple blocks in the last tank room. You need crusher for those. I don't think it's possible to glitch over there.
