Rockman 2, aka. Mega Man 2 in difficult mode, completed without using passwords.

About this movie

Movie length: 90600 frames / 25:10 min.
It is 25 seconds (1479 frames) faster than the previous record by Morimoto & FinalFighter.
  • aims for fastest time as possible
  • takes damage to save time
  • abuses death
  • abuses programming errors (a lot)
  • uses no passwords
Old techniques:
New techniques:
  • Route (order of the first eight stages) was changed.
  • Improved precision. Using the frame advance feature of FCEU in conjunction with RAM reading, we have been able to precisely measure the most effective means to kill enemies, and to jump/walk.
  • Better boss manipulation. Many boss fights are faster in this version than in the previous movie.
  • Better timings at switching weapons. Weapon switch resets vertical movement, and it can be done during the transformation animation. Utilizing these facts there can be 1―11 frames to be gained at each weapon switch.
  • Substituted scrolling technique. In some circumstances, it is possible to make the screen scroll to the right when it should scroll to the up or to the down. It allows significant shortcuts, especially in the Airman and Crashman stages. This technique depends on lag to occur in conjunction with right player/enemy movement, and it is impossible to predict when it will exactly happen. A robot was used to optimize all of these instances.
  • Damage transfer technique. This technique allows the damage from an explosion to be transmitted into an enemy where Rockman takes damage from. It was used in the Wily4 boss. As a secondary advantage, crash bombs could now be utilized in the second Quickman fight, giving even more advantage.
  • Surprise attack at boss. When Rockman is in the wall at top of screen, by jumping, he can progress such that in the next room, he is in the floor instead of the ceiling. This technique was utilized in the Woodman and Bubbleman bosses, saving time.
  • Slight Item-1 elevation inside wall. While getting pushed into a ceiling by an Item-1, there's a brief window of opportunity where by jumping, Rockman can land on an Item-1 that is further up, saving about 20 frames. It was used whenever possible (whenever we could afford the extra Item1 use).
  • Death at boss: by dying just a few frames before the boss dies, Rockman will be suspended in the air, possibly resulting in shorter travel time to the top of the screen when he teleports away. It saves 1-10 frames per use.
  • Item-2 assisted zipping (used in Bubbleman stage)
  • Sticky metal blades (up+down or left+right)

Shinryuu's words

Finally this PAIN is over! Over a year ago I started making a Rockman2 tool-assisted speedrun, because I wanted to beat Morimoto's & Finalfighter's Record.
Morimoto's & Finalfighter's movie was so insanely cool and I wanted to be the same as them. I'm a big Rockman fan and I'm so happy because this pain is now over :)

Bisqwit's words

I'm glad to have helped in this project.
Originally, I simply helped Shinryuu in optimizing some difficult places (especially by programming a robot to play through scenes that depend on unpredictable unlikely factors), but in the end, I had actually manually played through a couple of stages and beaten a couple of bosses, making me an equal participant.
The making of this movie took a long time, but it was interesting all the time. Sometimes there were moments of despair, especially at the boss of Wily4, but in the end, everything worked out mostly fine.
I am thoroughly in awe of the Japanese fellow mr. FinalFighter, who has single-handedly discovered so many of the techniques used in this movie. I am thankful that he has been friendly towards this movie, even though it obsoletes his older movie, to the degree that he has helped us by illustrating the esoteric glitches and techniques using video animations and explained them carefully in a chat despite a language barrier.

Work sharing

  • Flashman: Shinryuu
  • Heatman: Shinryuu, optimizing help by Bisqwit
  • Airman: Shinryuu, scrolling by BisqBot, optimizing help by Bisqwit
  • Woodman: Shinryuu, scrolling by BisqBot, floor-zipping by Bisqwit with Finalfighter's assistance, item1slight by Bisqwit, resyncing by Bisqwit after copypaste
  • Crashman: Bisqwit and Shinryuu, scrolling by BisqBot, resyncing by Bisqwit, boss by Shinryuu
  • Quickman: Bisqwit, boss by Shinryuu
  • Metalman: Bisqwit, boss by Shinryuu
  • Bubbleman: Shinryuu and Bisqwit, boss by Bisqwit
  • Wily1: Shinryuu, optimizing help by Bisqwit
  • Wily2: Shinryuu and Bisqwit, boss by Bisqwit
  • Wily3: Bisqwit
  • Wily4: Bisqwit
  • Wily5:
    • Airman2: Bisqwit
    • Heatman2: Shinryuu, after Bisqwit
    • Woodman2: Shinryuu, after Bisqwit's copypaste of Finalfighter's version
    • Bubbleman2: Bisqwit, after Shinryuu; resyncing by BisqBot
    • Quickman2: Bisqwit, after Shinryuu; resyncing by BisqBot
    • Crashman2: Shinryuu
    • Metalman2: Bisqwit, after Shinryuu
    • Flashman2: Bisqwit, after Shinryuu
    • Boss: Shinryuu
  • Wily6: Bisqwit
Major techniques by FinalFighter.

Special thanks

  • finalfighter, who discovered new, insane techniques and glitches
  • Hanzou for copypasting the Heatman teleport block part and for pointing out an improvement in Wily4 boss
  • Everyone who posted in Rockman2 thread
  • AngerFist the Mega Man (Rockman) fan
  • Randil who watched RM2 Special Wips

AQ (anticipated questions, and actual questions)

Q: Why did you use Flash stopper in the Quickman stage? Wouldn't it be faster without, weapon switches and all considering.
A: Because Rockman passed through the wall in a place where he should have went down instead, he is one screen ahead from where he should be. For that reason, it is necessary for him to walk once for whole screen horizontal width to restore to the right screen. This can't be done safely without the flash stopper.
Q: Why do you use several Item-1 platforms at a time, wouldn't one be enough?
A: Each Item-1 used serves the purpose of elevating Rockman higher in the wall. There are three different ways in which they accomplish that purpose in this movie: To serve as stairs (before the wall); to serve as an alternative foothold (in the beginning of ceiling entry), and to elevate higher in the wall (after the feet are completely inside the wall).
Q: Why did you not use the third crash bomb in the Quickman refight?
A: All crash bombs were used. The third one is only visible for less than a blink of eye. Watch in slow motion and you'll see it.
Q: Why not zip through the tunnel with drills in Wily2?
A: Because there is no possible way to place an Item-1 platform such that Rockman can stand on it in a narrow tunnel like that.
Q: Why the two metal blades in air right before Wily2 boss?
A: For show.
Q: How do you make the metal blades stick in air?
A: By holding left-right or up-down when pressing B.
Q: What were the hops for right before starting Bubbleman's refight?
A: To manipulate luck. Those hops created two frames of delay (because Rockman walks faster than he moves when he jumps), but in return, they saved four frames in the fight due to decreased lag.
Q: How did you make the screen scroll right instead of down in Airman stage?
A: It's a glitch we don't completely understand. Extreme luck is required to pull it off. Try the one in the Crashman stage (the second one on the screen with a lift), that should be the easiest.
Q: Is it possible to end the Flashman battle on the highest platform, causing a faster teleport-out?
A: Yes. We tried to fix this mistake and copypaste the rest of the movie, but the gain was lost in other random factors, and thus we left it be.
Q: Why did you take damage? It looks sloppy.
A: It was a deliberate choice. We used whatever resources we could to make the fastest time. HP is a resource too. Even extra lifes are resources, though we didn't actually need to consume those.
Q: Have you seen the glitch that warps Megaman into Wily stages directly from Airman / Heatman / etc stage?
A: Yes, but it cannot be used. The glitch only transfers Megaman into another map (by utilizing the fact that the two maps are actually in one contiguous array in the ROM), but it does not change the fact that Megaman is still in the same stage, and he still needs to clear the eight bosses in order to progress into Wily stages. If you clear the stage while in the cross-over Wily map, you will just clear the original stage, and another stage selection awaits, not the next Wily stage.

adelikat: Accepting. Major improvement over an incredible run.

Bisqwit: I'll encode this movie. :) (I want to use Blargg's audio lib if for nothing else, the scream of the engine at the ending.)


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1169: Shinryuu & Bisqwit's NES Mega Man 2 in 25:10.00
Former player
Joined: 9/1/2005
Posts: 803
there needs to be a "hell yeah" voting option.
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
Awesome TAS!!!!!! I been waiting this for so long :D Glitches was great and whole movie ;) YES Vote of course!
Current Projects: ???
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Voted yes. Very solid.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
I was hoping for a sub-25 minutes run. Voting no! (j/k) By the way, why such an enormous rerecord count?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
moozooh wrote:
By the way, why such an enormous rerecord count?
There was a lot of work. The millions (literally!) of rerecords done by BisqBot were not included in this count, as they were done on a separate copy of the movie.
Player (86)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Very well done and Planned. It was worth the wait for this. It was done so smooth and creatively. Some of my favorite parts are: In wily 4 - jumping backing and forth on the bottem of the ladder waiting for that slow moving elavator type thing. Bubbleman stage: so different from last run, and item 2 was a good show as well, as was dieing :) Wily 1 - dieing against the dragon :) Without any complaints (after a question or 2), I have to vote Yes.
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
The only disappointing part of this movie was in re-fighting the 8 bosses. I was expecting some zip-glitch insanity to skip straight to the boss. I don't suppose that would actually work, would it?
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Bisqwit wrote:
moozooh wrote:
By the way, why such an enormous rerecord count?
There was a lot of work. The millions (literally!) of rerecords done by BisqBot were not included in this count, as they were done on a separate copy of the movie.
Wow. I assumed the high rerecord count was because of the robot work. That's a pretty damn high number then! Cool.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Dromiceius wrote:
The only disappointing part of this movie was in re-fighting the 8 bosses. I was expecting some zip-glitch insanity to skip straight to the boss. I don't suppose that would actually work, would it?
We would have used whatever is possible.
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 380
Location: Finland
Awesome movie. It gets better and better. :)
"Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home." ( Pratchett & Gaiman: Good Omens )
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Atma wrote:
there needs to be a "hell yeah" voting option.
So true. Looking forward for this run to get back its Shiny Yellow Star ^_^ This is what I especially liked about the authors (besides their devastating superb performance on their run): Bisqwit - His persistence. Everyone who followed his struggle at IRC to make that awful hard trick to work know what he went through. He converted Finalfighters VirtualNES file to fcm, then dissected the file to hopefully find the code/solution of how that trick is done, you know the rest :) I really admire your determination. You sir, will always be my Mega Man Master :) Shinryuu - In my opinion, it takes guts to improve a run formerly made by two supercrazy Japanese ninjas, and you clearly showed you had more than what it takes. Proud of your accomplishment and how quickly you have adapted yourself for this run. Kudos! Edit: best stage music: Metal Man (its also my favorite music of all Mega Man games).
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Another question. As I wasn't thoroughly tracking the creation of this run, could some of you authours tell me if there are any possible spots (more like, frames) of improvement (despite how low they can be) in this run?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Player (224)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 399
moozooh wrote:
Another question. As I wasn't thoroughly tracking the creation of this run, could some of you authours tell me if there are any possible spots (more like, frames) of improvement (despite how low they can be) in this run?
Walk more in the first few stages.
<adelikat> I've been quoted with worse
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
I agree with AngerFist. I've always liked Bisqwit's and Shinryuu's work.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
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moozooh wrote:
Another question. As I wasn't thoroughly tracking the creation of this run, could some of you authours tell me if there are any possible spots (more like, frames) of improvement (despite how low they can be) in this run?
― There are places where +1, −1 frame variations occur without us noticing. With extra carefulness, they could be turned into all-gain. ― We didn't optimize the subpixel position in all situations. There could be probably around 4 frames in total to be gained by optimizing it. (For example, using a position xxx.00 when entering a teleport when the next direction is to left, and using a position xxx.99 when the next direction is to the right.) ― There are situations where Item1 randomness is bad: its vertical positioning is off for some unknown reason by 1 pixel, and we end up losing 10 frames. Happened a couple of times. Nothing much we could do about it, save replaying the entire movie and hoping for better. ― There are situations where we copypasted entire stages due to fixes at earlier positions in the movie, and when it desynced, we patched over the desync with a minimal plug, sometimes resulting in a loss of a few frames. Carefully replaying other situations in those copypasted sequences would probably reveal opportunities that could balance out those losses. ― There are situations where we noticed an earlier mistake, and tried to fix it and copypaste the rest, but the copypaste desynced, and our minimal plugs caused so much delay that the end product would have been slower than before the "fix". One such example is the Flashman fight; it would have been possible to land on the highest platform at the end, saving 1-4 frames. I say there's a possibility of maybe 3 seconds in total in these minor issues.
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Great movie, nice music, voting yes.
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 138
Yes vote from me. Skimmed through the video now - will watch it in full later.
adelikat
He/Him
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Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Favorite moments: 1) woodman & bubbleman fights, glitching right up to the enemy :D 2) the mecha dragon fight. When you took damage while it was chasing you, I thought it was just for style. 3) the boss refights. I accidentally blinked and missed half of them though. Seriously though, those have to be the fastest refights in the megman series (aside from just skipping past them in mm1 ;p) Anyway, an easy yes vote and a pleasure to watch.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Fabian, lol. Nice job guys, in case you were wondering :P
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
STAR! ;) Very entertaining and accurate run. Those glitches were amazing (which we have FinalFighter to thank, of course)! I liked most Bubble Man (stage & boss) and Mech Dragon. Those were simply soo... hmm... there just doesn't seem to be the right word for it ;D.
Which run should I encode next? :)
Morrison
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 8/2/2006
Posts: 195
Location: USA
I haven't seen a game torn apart this bad since Rygar or Rockman 1. Very fun to watch and almost perfect execution. Yes vote.
twitch.tv/Retrogaming2084
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I just have to quote my friend Shinryuu to describe this run in a good way: "Hell yes!" :) But seriously, I've been watching a lot of WIPs for this run, and I've been waiting for this movie to come out for a long time. The result is really as good as I expected, and I really think that this run deserves a star. I'm going to show this to everyone I know who have played the game. :P (yes, I will tell them that this is tool-assisted, don't worry. I already voted Yes on this, though it doesn't really matter. Amazing job, both of you. This is one of the best TAS:es I've ever seen, you should be really proud of yourselves.
Former player
Joined: 8/15/2004
Posts: 422
Location: Minnesota
Great work guys. Very Yes.
Fihlvein
He/Him
Joined: 7/28/2004
Posts: 135
Location: Finland Realms
Amazing. Always exciting to watch new rockman movies. Hell yea!