Topic by Mitjitsu

Posted: 9/21/2006 5:50 PM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
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I thought he did that as part of a practice run, I wonder where he screwed up? His route pretty much follows the one I just stated. The furthest I've gotten so far is the Twinrova battle but by that time Sub 3 was slipping away, because of the huge mistakes on the way to the Forest Temple and during it. I think I took 8-9 attempts at the megajump and then died during the Stalfos battle where the arrows are supposed to be collected and there was also lots of niggly mistakes during Spirit as well, then I wasted another 3-4 attempts doing the megajump again.

Posted: 9/21/2006 6:10 PM

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YautjaElder

Joined: 3/29/2006
Posts: 273
Location: Sweden

Bag of Magic Food wrote:

What's wrong with calling everybody "someone"?

CREDIT.

Posted: 9/21/2006 6:40 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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And what's so great about credit?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 9/21/2006 6:44 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Credits given when credits (cards are) due.

Posted: 9/21/2006 6:52 PM

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Bisqwit

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Bag of Magic Food wrote:

And what's so great about credit?

That is off-topic. I have warned you before, please don't drive good threads off-topic with irrelevant posts. I won't warn you again.

Posted: 9/22/2006 12:32 AM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

Thank you, Bisqwit.

Posted: 9/22/2006 11:16 AM

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Comicalflop

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Location: Massachussetts, USA

I suppose the work on this TAS, if it ever happens, will take a while because A) the technical difficultires GuanoBowl is having with his new run from using a diff ROM, and B) waiting for the run to come out on SDA first.

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Posted: 9/22/2006 11:25 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1301)

Joined: 12/21/2004
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Considering how barely possible the any% run was (and still is?) to record, starting a 100% run now would be somewhat insane...

Posted: 9/22/2006 5:15 PM

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Comicalflop

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Yeah I hate how N64 TASes look WAY more beautiful than any other game system TAS, while at the same time being 100% more difficult to make due to ROM/emulator problems... and a 100% of this game would be a VERY long movie, there'd be so much in it but nobody but the very attentive people would sit through all of it. I myself could barely watch the entirety of Guano's any%, due to so many texts, but I managed to because it was so amazing to watch the first time (I nearly left my summer job a few hours early to download it at home when it came out, but I patiently waited to not get fired)

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Posted: 9/22/2006 5:22 PM

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JXQ

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I'm of the opinion that N64 TASs generally aren't more beautiful, because they are too busy running at low framerates.

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Posted: 9/22/2006 6:13 PM

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Comicalflop

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I meant the gameplay, not the actual video quality. It was amazing to watch Zelda Oot played so fast, in terms of character movement. Generally N64 games (with the exception of the relle slow Kirby 64) have characters with faster movement and more dgrees of freedom, leading to more aesthetically pleasing character movements.

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Posted: 9/22/2006 6:22 PM

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Mitjitsu

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I see 3D as a oportunity for different degrees of movement. The trouble with trying to compete with a previous 2D run, is that the differences between the two movies are really hard to spot unless your eye is highly trained for that specific game. Since if the previous movie was near optimal then there is no choice but to effectively copy input as certain parts of the game are indeed the optimal way to do that paticular section, with 3D even if certain movement is of an optimal time you can be pretty sure that there is another way to do it that'll be equally as long, but have a different look.

Posted: 9/22/2006 8:59 PM

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JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
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The N64 TAS's so far don't strike me as fast character movement, especially compared to some of the faster 2-D games. They are smoother in some ways, although I tend to disagree because of framerate.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 9/22/2006 9:03 PM

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Mukki

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Joined: 8/26/2006
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Location: United Kingdom

I think N64 TASes will become a big part of the site once it properly takes off. N64 is the most modern of all consoles on the site and in modern times there have been more gamers. With N64 TASes more people will find a game that they are familiar with.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 9/22/2006 9:20 PM

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Mitjitsu

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It does take a long time to do a N64 TAS. The only explerience I have of it is doing a rupee run and two runs of SM in B+K, as well as messing around with hyperspeed glitches in SM64. All these partial movies which lasted roughly 2 mins each took about 300, 700, 1200 re-records respecectivley as well as that I suffered about 5-6 desyncs which I had to go way back and do correctly and hope it doesn't desync, this encourages fewer re-records, because you eventually just end up going for an optimal look instead of making it frame perfect. It might not sound like a big deal, but there is usually a much bigger gap from making a re-record to re-loading the movie again, and it also takes longer to strategically make a different move as you have to have a more in depth memory as to what you did before and re-apply slightly different in some way, unlike 2D where you're effectively using brute force to do every part of the game. There would be a lot more N64 TASes if Mupen was more reliable and didn't desync so much.

Posted: 9/22/2006 9:21 PM

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Comicalflop

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I agree with Mukki, us old school gamers remember the NES and SNES but more people will, as they get introduced to this website be more familiar with N64. I've played Zelda: OoT and not specifically the backwalking, but everything else- jumping, attacking, skipping thru the game, aiming, etc. was very fast, and extremely suprising considering I played that game like all noobies i.e. rolling foward, no damage boosts, etc. Simarly, Mario 64 I've played and I'm more familiar with the speed of the game, but not the precision or glitches that TASes provide.

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Posted: 9/23/2006 1:29 AM

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JXQ

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I don't think there will be a substantially larger amount of people interested in TAS just because N64 enters the fray. However, as the current systems libraries dwindle, new games will look more and more appealing. However many newer games don't work as well for TASing, even ones that are throwbacks to old genres, like 2-D platformers. Many games like this have elaborate cutscenes between and during levels in order to make gamers of today feel like the game has more of a point. None of that mattered back then, and so the older movies are all action. A large amount of Ocarina of Time's TAS is talking. Contrast this to the original NES Zelda TAS, where the action is nearly constant from beginning to end. To summarize, I think Mukki is right when saying that N64 TASing will become a big part of the site once it takes off. But I'm not happy about that. :(

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 9/23/2006 2:01 AM

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nitsuja

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Joined: 12/21/2004
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I think there's plenty of action to be found in N64 games. Not in very many of them, to be honest, but even Mario 64 on its own probably has enough potential to justify N64 TASing. (And, at least auto-scrollers had been largely abandoned by the time N64 games were being made...)

Posted: 9/24/2006 4:07 AM

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theenglishman

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Joined: 3/21/2006
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Well, I DO like the idea of a "temple adventure" where all dungeons must be completed and sequence breaking is allowed. In that case, I think the best route would be - Deku Tree - Spirit Temple (full completion as a child) - Jabu Jabu's Belly - Dodongo's Cavern BECOME AN ADULT - The Sage temples in no particular order - Shadow Temple via "leap of faith" Will edit this later.

My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(

Posted: 9/24/2006 11:36 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Well a 100& TAS is well off limits, but something inbetween Guano's current run and a 100% would be good. Since the previous run skipped so much a lot of the tricks simply became useless, but its hard to have a rigid catagory. Like I said I would like to do an all medalion without any clipping glitches i.e. glitch in Ganon Tower and Boss key skip in Fire Temple, but that probally isn't a well enough defined catagory and so would get rejected or already known tricks would be used to obselete the run I was mentioning earlier. The judges would need to post what all the acceptable catagories are.

Posted: 9/25/2006 1:10 AM

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Comicalflop

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I agree, the Any% has a no bounds-complete-as-fast-as-possible-with-any-glicthes, but the difference between a 100% and an any medallion glitchless run is iffy, and debatable about which would be a more accepted run. My thinking is that some games have glitch and non-glitch runs, like some NES zelda games (Zelda 2), Zelda: ALttP for SNES, whereas other games have any% and 100% (all 3 Donkey Kong, Super Metroid, Megaman X series.) I'm still undecided about this. What I do know is that I cannot wait for the improvement of the any%.

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Posted: 9/25/2006 8:15 AM

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fluffy_kitten

Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 36
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

I think the most feasible idea would be to just have an All medallion run and the Any% beat-game-as-fast-as-possible run. The All Medallion run would include all time saving glitches and tricks. Having an All Medallion no glitching run would be very boring to watch. Having individual TAS's of beating all possible Adult dungeons as a child would also be pretty neat.

Posted: 9/25/2006 2:44 PM

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notBowen

Joined: 12/2/2005
Posts: 139
Location: New York, United States

A glitched all-medallion run is I think the ideal run to go for. I would also love to see a 100%, but that's a massive undertaking,

What's a man like me supposed to do with all this extra savoir-faire?

Posted: 9/25/2006 3:18 PM

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Comicalflop

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But a glitched all medallion run is only different from the any% by 2 1/2 temples. I personally didn't like seeing 3 of my favorite temples being skipped, but an all medallion run is having the game beaten the way it is supposed to be, which us TASers try to break. Making it an all medallion run is like having a warpless run of any of the DCK series- in DCK 2 and 3, there are warps in the first two worlds but making a warpless run is not better than an any%, despite seeing more of the game being played. the whole point is we dominate these games to beat them in speeds not normally humanly possible, or make 100% goals look rediclously easy.

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Posted: 9/25/2006 5:34 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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And you still skip cool stuff like the Ice Cavern and the Bottom of the Well!

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude