Not too bad. I've said it before, since you're not submitting this version don't kill yourself over the minor errors. Once the movie is done then you, or someone else, can take it and try and make a more perfected version. Till then, keep it up.
I had a look at this game hack, with Kyrsimys's movie.
There's certainly some work that has gone into making this hack, but I don't like it.
The design is too chaotic. The colours and musics are badly chosen, and the maps don't make much sense. All around it, it shines the message "this is amateur work".
I get the feeling that this is a big and long game, too.
As a superplay, it would be more of a training of Mario-TA-playing skills than a beautiful superplay video.
My vote on acceptance as a publishable hack movie on percentage scale is 30%.
Edit: I have no complaint of Kyrsimys's playing.
bisqwit, i know my english isnt that good, but try to understand please..
imho, i believe that most of the ppl who watches the movies in nesvideos are guests that only pass by, that are only here to have fun.. like i was.. i visit this website since the begin of 2004, but only started posting now.. and when i wasnt interested by making, i looked for fun movies, it wasnt important for me if anyone lost 30 frames in the start menu, or something like that.. and im still a novice by making TAS, so i still have that sense of aiming for fun.. which i believe most of the guests have.. and this Mario Adventure movie, for example was very fun.. and Mario being known as it is, the movie would probably be very popular among the guests.. its important to keep the guests coming here.. some of them are probably the next submitters in the future of Nesvideos..
anyway.. im not saying you dont need to be frame-precise when its needed, or something like that.. but i think u all are starting to concept this too much..
<small>My big signature was cleared by admin; i should read <a href="http://tasvideos.org/ForumRules.html">forum rules</a>. But... who does?</small>
I think 'amatuer' is too harsh a word. True it's no 'SMW: The Legend Continues', but very few hacks reach that level of depth, especially when you consider that the author of the hack is the same person who created the SMW level editor, so not everyone has the advantage of knowing the game's code inside and out. There are plenty worse hacks out there that try to pass themselves off as 'total overhauls' that don't even come close to Mario Adventure.
Personally, about the only thing I dislike is the random weather effects, which is what erally screws with the colors in the levels, as you pointed out. As for the level design, well, I rather like it myself, there's some creative levels in there, and the really good stuff is in the final few worlds, but we're all entitled to our opinion.
He wasn't referring to the quality of the play, but to the quality of the hack.
The play's good, the hack isn't as much.
but as he said, depending on his own will, there will be no published movie of this, because of the rom.. and what i mean to say is that i really think this movie deserves a place in the nesvideos page.. because its a fun movie of a very known character.. and i agree with what spoony bard said, this is not a completely amateur work at all.. there are many creative levels, items, systems.. which result in a fun movie, if well done like Kyrsimys is doing..
<small>My big signature was cleared by admin; i should read <a href="http://tasvideos.org/ForumRules.html">forum rules</a>. But... who does?</small>
Funny how some people will accept TASes for mediocre (and really crappy) games, but not for mediocre hacks.
There's a limited number of licensed games, but there's no similar limit to hacks.
(Yes, nitpicking, there is a concise number on them -- but anyone can make a variation on them, which makes it very hard to draw a line.)
Well, the author of this hack is working on another one, that's even bigger (and two games in one, heh).
I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'amatuer' -- there are many, many worse hacks out there, and this one required a lot of skill to hack (programming in 6052 assembly isn't easy).
I always considered this to be one of the best hacks out there, second only to Demo World TLC, and it's plenty hard (which would make it somewhat interesting, to see a challenging game beaten in no time), but some things are quite chaotic in design.
Overall, I still think this would be an interesting movie, and if it's not, the hack he's been working on now definitely will be when it's released.
Edit: I found the page dealing with the hack I speak of -- http://board.acmlm.org/thread.php?id=16478 -- it's pretty nice, but the screenshots have been deleted; he's uploading more soon.
I'm a big fan of this hack simply because of the multitude of new features. Yes, they're not all perfectly implemented, but they're close enough to be tons of fun. I checked out the speed run and found it quite interesting. However, I saw no mention of this anywhere so I thought I'd point it out: your speedrun technically starts from a save. Not sure if you have any items, but you definitely start the game with 166 coins you're not supposed to have.
For the record, this game constantly saves the time spent, the number of coins you have and, IIRC, your inventory and keys you've collected. A speedrun that's submittable would have to be started with an erased "battery save" file. Just FYI. But I'm liking the vid.
Ouch. That could put a damper on some plans in case he makes a more polished run to submit. :S
Barring that, very well-played run. The only gripe I really have about is an aesthetic issue (being above a few obstacles in the Airships areas instead of playing around), but that's minor compared to how hard you're pwning this game.
*looks forward to more*
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll be sure to remember to start with a clean rom if I'll ever do a version 2. Hopefully I'll be able to finish World 6 and get a good start on World 7 this weekend, so stay tuned.
EDIT: I just realized that it costs 300 coins to get the magic wand from the first toad house, and that if I already have 166 coins (I seriously never noticed that) I can't buy the wand at the same point in the next version. I'll have to rethink that.
There's certainly some work that has gone into making this hack, but I don't like it. ... All around it, it shines the message "this is amateur work".
I'm going to argue this into the ground. Of course this is amateur work -- to my knowledge, DarkDaiz is not a professional programmer, nor was he paid to do this.
One thing I'm very afraid of is that the only opinion that is going to matter in publishing movies of hacked games is your own. I understand that you run this site, but this is going to make it very difficult to impossible for even good hacked games to have movies published because of your notion that "anyone can make a hack." That's true, everybody can -- but not everybody can make one that hacks the game to this extent without being overly bizarre, impossible, just plain stupid, or any combination of the three.
From the little bit I played myself and watching Kyrsimys' movie, I've observed the following:
1) Many new, generally well-done graphic tiles.
2) A complete re-organization of how the game is laid out, using World 9 as a hub for the rest of the game.
3) A new status bar, which tracks progress beyond score/coins/lives.
4) A weather system that can change the way a level plays, but does not affect all levels. This adds some variety.
5) New powerups.
6) An "item box" similar to that from Super Mario World, but not the same. It's an instant switch, bringing the possibility of new and interesting strategies not at all possible in any commercial game in the series.
7) Hammer Bros. scenes are more interesting than SMB3's boring and repetitive one-screen encounters.
8) Airship stages are not necessarily airships -- the first is more of a tank, and one (Lakitu Glacier, I believe) is more of a submarine. Parts of these stages beyond the boss rooms now take place within these vehicles.
9) What should be of particular interest here: Many opportunities to exploit SMB3's through-the-wall glitch, including one that can only be performed in this hack due to the landscape (vertically through the wall in the Hot Foot Caverns area).
As I recall, DarkDaiz spent quite a long time on this hack making sure things worked the way he wanted them to. Was it perfectly executed? No, but if the other movies for commercial games has proved anything, even the "professionals" don't always get things "right."
I don't understand how this can been seen as "just another amateur hack."
Okay, I guess I'll take part in this conversation too. When I first played the hack, I fell in love with it right away. All the other SMB3 hacks I've played have either made the game hellishly difficult or the author has gotten tired halfway and half of the levels have been utter crap.
I think Mario Adventure has some good stuff in it, such as the new powerups, the powerup switch box, and a nice amount of (well designed) levels. The switch box is especially welcome because it allows for great TAS tactics. I also found a glitch involving it: if you change the powerup exactly as an enemy hits you, you get to keep both of the powerups. This will be used in my video later on.
It also has some bad stuff in it such as the random weather effects, but in my opinion the good stuff definitely outweighs the bad. The worlds have consistent themes that keep their promise to the end, and I especially like the very original worlds 4, 6 and 7. The seven keys are great for prolonging the experience as is the added difficulty. The coin collecting levels add even more variety to the mix.
For me it comes down to this question: is it so much fun that you don't feel like whining about the small mistakes the author of the hack didn't see coming? In my opinion, hell yes. I admit that I lost my nerve when I noticed I didn't have enough keys to complete the game because they had been overwritten by some other items, but since that was fixable, I got over it. To anyone who doubts this hack's potential: play it. Play it and fall in love with it, like I did.
When I last watched the run, it was up to World 3, and the only thing I didn't like about the game was the backgrounds (or lack of). Worlds 2 and 3 both look really bad to me...for example in World 3, there can be more than three colors to the level. Well I just watched it up to World 6 and I definitely like the last three world designs and motifs much better than the first 3.
Aside from the look, all the new features make this an interesting hack. Kyrsimys, I like how you keep a feather in reserve to switch to just to get the extra air to make a jump, yet keep running speed. Very nice.
As far as publishability, well...if a run of Air is getting published, then I can't see how this could be denied the same.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
I've already raised my own points for the game. Krysmis and Makou are a bit more eloquent than I.
The decision is, ultimately, up to Bisqwit and the others. I STILL think 'Amatuer' is far too harsh a term for the hack, but that's just me. I've had my eye on the romhacking community (or at least, a romhacking community) for a number of years. I've seen plenty of good and bad hacks (more bad than good, sadly), and Mario Adventure ranks up near the top of my list. SDW:TLC is probably one of the absolute best, but if you use that game as the standard to compare all hacks then, well, you're not going to get very many.
If I had a vote then I'd say a run of the game deserves to be published. But, it's not my site.
Bisqwit is certainly correct when he says there are potentially an infinite number of hacks out there, and some standards DO have to be adhered to. But the vast majority of hacks that are out there are graphics/text only edits, and those that are obvious that no care has gone into level redesign at all. Mario Adventure has its mistakes, but it is still a good hack.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
is there a good hack that simply changes the levels layout (without making it impossibly hard) and without trying to add graphics, or anything new? because, when people try to add new stuff... they go very wrong. i tried playing the first world of this hack and it had some new stuff, but not very well executed, the only thing that i said "wow thats good" was the first fortress with the scrolling background, that felt like it could have been in the original cartridge. But the rest just pissed me off.. they changed the powerups to worse, the graphics look amateur (so why change it??) and the engine is different for no reason. Why can't i step on top of enemies that have no spikes on top of them? why is it more difficult to move in the air if there's snow? i didn't like those things. It would have been better just a level layout change.
I have not found any good hack that only changes levels without making them impossibly hard. Believe me, I've looked.
The engine is not different for "no reason." The idea behind Mario Adventure was to make a new game using Super Mario Bros. 3's engine as a base and expanding on it. It tried to go beyond just being a "simple hack." That's why so much has changed.
And again with calling some part of it amateur. DarkDaiz is no more a professional graphics artist than he is a professional coder. He did the best that he could with the experience that he has. The result is not A+ work, but it's servicable and does the job it was meant to do. Even some of the not-so-good looking graphics are still better than what you see in some late-NES-era professional games.
Why can't you step on top of enemies that have no spikes? Why is it harder to move through the air when snow is flying? I'll answer with my own question: Why does touching a flower let Mario throw flames from his hands? It's a design decision that was made by the programmer.
If Mario Adventure had been made by Nintendo, would these questions ever be asked? I somehow doubt it, because hacks of any kind have a stigma of "if I'm not expecting it, it's bad," while commercial titles are (generally) given the luxury of experimentation.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
If it's meant to be a new game then it shouldn't be "Mario" game. change the characters as well. because mario can always stomp on enemies that have a harmless top.
And he coould have got together with some artist to do the artwork, couldn't he? Of course he can't program AND make the graphics both excelent, that's a rare thing.
So Nintendo should stop making Mario games, too? Either way, allow me to rephrase my statement: The idea was to make a new game -- specifically, a new Mario game that introduces new elements and enemy types.
As for getting an "artist" to do the graphics, yes, he could have. But he chose not to. He wanted it to be his project, and didn't want to either depend on somebody else or tie someone else down over the time it took to complete it. In a day when so many people depend on others to do the work for them, I find that admirable. As I said, the result was not A+ work, but it's servicable and does the job it was meant to do.
If it's meant to be a new game then it shouldn't be "Mario" game. change the characters as well. because mario can always stomp on enemies that have a harmless top.
The only enemies you can't stomp on (in addition to the ones from the original game) don't have a harmless top. There are black spikes on top of them if you look closely. I think it's explained on the hack's homepage.
Run complete!. FCEU reports a final time of 59:42. I will now comment the run in it's entirety.
World 1: I need to rethink my strategy here as I will not have 300 coins right at the toad house. I will probably just play a couple of more levels and then return to the toad house to get the wand. I also need to find a way to manipulate the random weather effects so that it doesn't snow. Other than that World 1 was pretty good.
World 2: Found some nice shortcuts here. In addition to the zipping through the wall, I used a glitch that's a little harder to notice. In some levels, when you press left while you are entering the level, you start at a different point than normally. I abused this in one of the levels: Mario appears right in the middle of a pipe and continues to slide out of it, allowing me to enter it right away. Normally Mario would start farther to the right.
World 3: A pretty boring world. In the next version, I should try harder to avoid taking damage. Especially from the flying goomba. I think it was a good decision to use the star in one of the levels because it allowed me to get a flying start instead of waiting for the vine to grow.
World 4: Pretty bad screwups here. I need to get a feather for the coin collecting level and a fireflower for the castle. Lots of other minor mistakes here too.
World 5: There was one wall here I couldn't get through that would have saved a lot of time. I don't know if it's because the walls here are composed of tiles that are completely square instead of having round corners. The wall is in the coin collecting level, and if I could have pulled this off, I could've skipped collecting the coins.
World 6: This was pretty good actually, nothing here that really annoys me. I use a glitch here that involves switching powerups while getting hit by an enemy. This allows me to take two extra hits as Magic Mario. I use this on a stage boss (forgot the name) and later in the castle (on a flame).
World 7: This one's a bit tough. It would take a crapload of time to test all possible routes. I did play through all of the levels and I got the impression that going straight to the right and then down was pretty fast. The three wait-it-out levels are really boring. I used the same glitch in the fortress as I did in World 2. That is, pressing left while entering the stage. As you can see, I start off in the middle of the wall and at a pretty advantageous point in the level. Mario is supposed to appear next to the door instead of inside the wall.
World 8: This was actually pretty boring to do. There are seven boss fights that are all pretty much identical with the strategy I use. One of the fights seemed a lot shorter than the others, I'll have to see if I can use that strategy on all the others next time. The final boss fight turned out to be pretty entertaining.
Hope you enjoyed it! I'm not promising anything with regards to a version 2, but I'll see if I'm up for it next weekend.
