I think I'd rather see lowest in-game time a bit more because I think that has more merit, and would be faster than a low%. Even if the x-ray part is boring, the run as a whole would still be very intriguing.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Pie is good. :)
And also one of the ways I wanted to improve your WIP. I only saved one frame there, though, because I jumped on and off the ledge instead of double walljumping.
Another timesaver to consider: if you have to spend one additional frame in the Torizo room because of the door timer, consider spending one less frame in the previous room, when entering the door.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Another timesaver to consider: if you have to spend one additional frame in the Torizo room because of the door timer, consider spending one less frame in the previous room, when entering the door.
Won't work AFIAK, I did this room twice in the 100% run, I entered it with both a even and a odd number of frames and had to delay the room by a frame in both cases.
And also one of the ways I wanted to improve your WIP. I only saved one frame there, though, because I jumped on and off the ledge instead of double walljumping.
No, jumping "on" the ledge is exactly what makes it impossible to save any frames here, because as I said before, you get yourself too far to the right that way. Are you sure you are serious here? If so, can you please show a demo smv that would be one frame faster than what I did even if landing on the ledge like you said?
I'm pretty sure the double walljump as they showed is the only way to save any frames here at all.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
I accidentally obsoleted the moozooh jump....
ooops
but in all seriousness, it is actually the exact same speed as the moozooh jump. You can either do this tech, or the moozooh jump, but not both.
Nice tech, hero. It's actually possible to combine the moozooh-jump with it, but it requires you to land on a platform anyway, in order to switch to the falling animation instead of the jump-falling one, which makes your tech impossible to execute. It's still not faster that way though.
This tech was actually used in many older runs already, when falling down from the Draygon-Shinespark to not hit the platform below it. Unfortunately nobody (even not me, despite knowing about this weird tech during the console playing times already) got the idea to try it in other places, so thanks to hero to find it. It indeed has some good time saving potential as already seen in hero's recent run, for example in the Red Brinstar shaft when going to Kraid.
Not to start another battle about who found what but I figured out and started using this trick before hero had shown it in any of his work. For example in my first any% (v4) WIP posted here I used it in the RB shaft before the PB's. I missed it in the other RB shaft though.
I've known it for some time (as others have to) but never found out the exact conditions for it to work until I started to work on my latest any%.
Yeah it can, and is in both our any% runs and our upcoming 100%. It makes for some good saves every here and there.
New 100% run news makes me...do something that involves instinctive bodily reactions.
Kriole wrote:
Twelvepack wrote:
The run I saw looked more like someone played it by hand, and used re-records to execute the glitches. The overall quality of play was not even up to time runner standards of precision.
That's very right indeed. It is halfassisted, no slowdown and savestates only IIRC.
For example in my first any% (v4) WIP posted here I used it in the RB shaft before the PB's. I missed it in the other RB shaft though.
Ahh, I see now. Sorry for missing it before.
As for the conditions to get it to work, like said before, you need to be in a falling state, which is activated if you run off a platform without jumping for example. If you jump off it, then Samus will simply turn around when you hit the opposite direction while aiming down.
Oddity:
I think Teri used slowdowns as well in his runs. The quality is not as high as the current standard obviously, but it still looks far better than something done with only savestates.
I think Teri used slowdowns as well in his runs. The quality is not as high as the current standard obviously, but it still looks far better than something done with only savestates.
If his last any% was done completely without frame-advance I'm very impressed, sure it is improvable by a fair amount of frames even if only using what tricks where known at the time but it is about a 1000 times more optimized that anything I could ever produce with mere slowdowns.
Saturn wrote:
As for the conditions to get it to work, like said before, you need to be in a falling state
Yeah I know, as to my knowledge this can only be achieved by running of a ledge, demorphing in mid air or after a shinespark. (and probably some other specific cases which are unusable like after being dropped by draygon)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
I don't feel like reading all this, but Cpadolf was certainly the first (out of me and him) to understand and use the momentum tech in a run. He used it in the red brinstar shaft well before me, props to him. After I learned about it, I just looked in a million different places for practical uses of it.
If his last any% was done completely without frame-advance I'm very impressed, sure it is improvable by a fair amount of frames even if only using what tricks where known at the time but it is about a 1000 times more optimized that anything I could ever produce with mere slowdowns.
I checked his latest any% carefully, and it indeed seems that he didn't use frame advance at all on it. You can see it clearly for example when he walljumps OTES up, because the delay-times when he releases the jump button and then re-presses it again for the next walljump varies between the optimal 1 and 3 frames all the time. Also the dash button during the short charges is longer pressed than necessary, thus increasing the distance to charge the spark. I don't think he would delay this critical moments unnecessary if he would use frame advance here.
And I totally agree, for a non-frame advance run, it looks extremely well optimized.
hero of the day wrote:
I don't feel like reading all this, but Cpadolf was certainly the first (out of me and him) to understand and use the momentum tech in a run. He used it in the red brinstar shaft well before me, props to him. After I learned about it, I just looked in a million different places for practical uses of it.
It's great to see that there are still a few people left who can admit such things in this days. My respect for your fairness and honesty, hero.
The run I saw looked more like someone played it by hand, and used re-records to execute the glitches. The overall quality of play was not even up to time runner standards of precision.
That's very right indeed. It is halfassisted, no slowdown and savestates only IIRC.
I'd like to see YOU come up with utterly insane task to accomplish, and then actually figure out a way to accomplish that task within a few months. And then record the movie when you intend to present it within a week. During finals week of college. :P
Seriously though, not everything has to be a speed run.
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage.
... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
yea, but that run was fucking terrible. Any idiot could do better, even while drinking.
Maybe because it's not a speedrun. It's a video designed to show off a glitch to skip killing Mother Brain, as well as any of the other bosses. It was never branded as a speedrun and labelling it as such is silly.
I actually think Twelvepack was being sarcastic in his last post.
Saturn wrote:
Are you sure you are serious here?
I am. Their earlier WIP is one frame slower there than yours and mine, since they didn't wait a frame before jumping. That's why Kriole said it saved two frames: compared to the WIP you posted it saves only one.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I am. Their earlier WIP is one frame slower there than yours and mine, since they didn't wait a frame before jumping. That's why Kriole said it saved two frames: compared to the WIP you posted it saves only one.
No moozooh, delaying a frame before jumping isn't faster than doing it immediately (which I did in my WIP as well). The double walljump is 2 frames faster than the best you can do if landing on the ledge, just compare it yourself with the best you achieved to see. It would be good if you try to be precise in your analyzes. As you see, guessing without a true confirmation isn't enough here, even if you think to be sure about it at first.
Hmm, you're right. I must have remembered it wrong the last time I did comparisons.
[EDIT]
Alright, figured out the reason for my confusion: they gained a frame over NBMB thanks to the same trick that allowed the 49'22 escape, I misremembered that frame as being lost and misattributed it to the place in question.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
