Clockworks are used to get that jiggy in RTA runs. We do prison compound on the second trip to Mayahem Temple and shoot a clockwork from the water pool in that area.
Clockworks are used to get that jiggy in RTA runs. We do prison compound on the second trip to Mayahem Temple and shoot a clockwork from the water pool in that area.
I got a chance to watch the current run after awhile, but thanks for the reply.
Interestingly enough, this video is a modification of a similar glitch that was accidentally discovered by Madtaz64.
He was practicing the clockwork shot for the jail jinjo in Terrydactyland by Wumba's on emulator. He collected the jinjo which happened to be his first jinjo, and it activated both the jinjo cutscene and the gate opening cutscene at the same time. The clockwork was then warped to jinjo village.
This glitch works the same way really, the *first cheato page collected* cutscene and the *bridge raising* cutscene activate at the same time, and it warps banjo to Grunty's Lair.
Cronikeys tested a few other ideas but they didn't work, and unfortunately the warps found wouldn't be used in speedruns but it is still cool nonetheless :)
Pjii's any% PB is now a 44:41, yeah. He recently got that time and has moved on to cheato % for which he got a 28:25. He will likely be improving that too.
This WIP is interesting. Some of it is really optimized like the code entering, but the movement could use some work. Probably around 3 potential seconds are lost in Klungo from not getting a good push. You can get pushed throughout the entirety of the cutscene if your placement is exceptional.
Some things I noticed and thoughts that came to mind:
- Randomly jumping just once: Not sure why this is done in some areas? Rule of thumb with this game is to keep jumping if you start to jump at all, and always jump while going up hills.
- Movement in general in a lot of places is not done in straight lines.
- I am unsure if shooting eggs in bursts of three is faster than shooting constantly.
Definitely interested to see where the TASer goes with this.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Cool test run of "cheato%" or any% with in-game cheats, but it's far, far, far from optimized. Pjii's RTA WR is more impressive from a technical aspect.
Anyway, I wanted to crosspost this novel I wrote in BK's thread: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=400044#400044
As for this game, I still intend on TASing "Any%." I will not be using a pre-made save file, but I will be utilizing the DCW glitch to get clockworks early (the TDL chompa cutscene in the intro demo lets you warp to TDL without JRL). As I understand it, this is the category that would be most suitable for TASvideos submission? Clean cart any% w/o in-game cheats? Time would be around 2 hours. It's not a category that realtime runners do, but it is the fastest "new game" method w/o cheats.
There's also this new glitch:
Link to video
If a discussion takes place where people would rather see a TAS that does use a pre-made save file, this would save a bit of time.
There's also this:
Link to video
The TAS would skip the swamp completely using a glitch that still hasn't been entirely figured out, but this does provide an interesting out of bounds and an interesting look at how the game handles these flingy situations. Some weird stuff with them can happen in HFP, too.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
sack_bot wrote:
I'm going to say cheato% would be nice
a) tasvideos' policy on the use of in-game cheats is a grey area
b) the majority of the run is cutscenes and it shows off subjectively the most boring parts of the game, performs a hard to spot glitch, and then beats the final boss
c) http://www.twitch.tv/pjii/c/5936753 - the tas would be this only with more optimal movement.. so not much different
Patashu wrote:
IMO the first TAS for the site should be whichever category requires the least amount of effort, but I'm pragmatic like that ;)
In this case the one which would require the least amount of effort is cheato%, but as I said I don't think there's a serious (or warranted... see incoming rant) demand for that.
Right now, realtime runners have 4 categories: "cheato%" which uses in-game cheat codes, "any%" which uses a cartridge with existing save data on it and performs the hard-to-spot glitch that warps to the final boss from level 2 using the boss replay mode cutscene of the final boss, "any% no dcw" which is any% without using the glitch that lets you warp anywhere in the game just by playing a cutscene from that area, and 100%
cheato% = 27~ minutes
any% = 42~ minutes (any% is a misleading name because it uses dirty sram)
any% no dcw = 2 hours and 40 minutes~ (extremely rough estimate)
100% = 4 hours and 20 minutes~ (extremely rough estimate - this would use DCW and the best realtime BT runner has not done a run with that yet)
In terms of "entertainment" which is kind of a nebulous concept, any% no dcw is the clear victor for realtime runs. Cheato% and Any% are more cutscenes than gameplay. Any% does have that cool detonator levitation glitch, though. Cheato% doesn't even have that. Three out of the four would require previous save data in order for a run to be considered optimal (exception being any% no dcw).
The category I described is "Any%" but with the distinction that it is from a clean cartridge and without cheat codes. In length it would be somewhere between Any% "with save data" and Any% no dcw. It would be a 2 hour long long glitch fest (that unfortunately has tower of tragedy). In my humble (3 years + 1000s of hours spent on the game + the person who plans on tasing the game) opinion, this would be the most entertaining and least arbitrary of all possible category choices. Doing anything other than this would involve cheat codes or be a repeat of the "DKR Any%" fiasco with swordlesslink a few years ago: #3831: SwordlessLink's N64 Diddy Kong Racing "Glitched NewGame+" in 04:09.25Again, to summarize: I want the TAS to beat the game as fast as possible without existing sram or cheat codes. That's the category/route I am proposing. Nobody runs it in realtime, so it will be a unique route with heavy glitch abuse.
Pre-answering inevitable questions:
Q: Why is the sram route boring?
A: It's the intro cutscene, then the jiggywiggy cutscene, then the mayahem temple opening cutscene, then the Golden Goliath cutscene, then a reset, then the Glitter Gulch Mine opening cutscene, then.. an awesome cool glitch where you fly as detonator!, then the ufo cutscene, then the witchyworld opening cutscene, then the rest of the ufo cutscene, then the final boss cutscene, then the final boss cutscene again, then.. the final boss fight! 23 minutes of cutscenes in a 42 minute run. The glitch that's used to skip to the final boss fight is practically invisible in terms of execution. It involves playing 4 cutscenes.
Q: Why are you against cheato? He's in the game, right?
The codes used are not given in the game. They are developer codes, just like the ones in the sandcastle in Banjo-Kazooie. Allowing them in this game would mean you'd allow the world-opening and note-door-bypassing codes from Banjo-Kazooie as well.
Q: Why should anyone care about a slower run?
It will show off the many, many glitches in the later parts of the game that would be skipped if SRAM or cheats are used.
Q: I am a realtime speedrunner. Why aren't you interested in my category called "any%"?
The branding of "any%" by realtime speedrunners is not an acceptable label for TASvideos. At best it can be considered "any% using dirty sram." The existing 100% TAS of Banjo-Kazooie, for example, does not skip the opening cutscene. Speedrunners do. This is a difference between clean sram and dirty sram. Realtime runners are welcome to make "theory tases" of routes, but as for publication on TASvideos that version of any% does not belong.
Q: Will the run include the DCW glitch?
YES. It just won't be warping to HAG1 because that cutscene is not available on clean sram. It will be warping to TDL using the intro demo (which will be arguably cooler to watch).
It's not like you're not allowed to start from SRAM, there are several published TASes that do it.
And regarding that TAS of Diddy Kong Racing, the problem there was not the category itself, but the author refusing to provide a verfication movie that generates the SRAM.
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2821
Location: Northern California
andypanther wrote:
And regarding that TAS of Diddy Kong Racing, the problem there was not the category itself, but the author refusing to provide a verfication movie that generates the SRAM.
The problem was partially with the category. Runs like that are basically no different than just starting a new game, then loading a file from just before the final boss, then claiming that's a legit any% record since you started from new game and got to the credits. The verification movie not being provided was just another layer on the delicious drama cake that was that run.
I'm really looking forward to this run and the new Banjo-Kazooie run! The amount of stuff found since the first BK TAS is mind-blowing and I can't wait for all the (double console-verified) stuff to be put into action.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
There are other reasons for not using the SRAM route. My post on the matter lists several reasons. Regardless of whether it's allowed or not, I'd prefer to do the clean cart route and thoroughly explained why.
I don't want to DCW us off topic so I'll keep this short: I know DKR didn't have a movie file of the dirty sram being created. The main reason for rejection was due to the fact that it did not complete the game on the file it started the game on. In BT's case, the actual file is completed despite using SRAM for the boss replay mode. So technically, yes, I'd be allowed to use dirty SRAM and stay within the rules of the site. I'm not going to.
Edit: Side-note (and this is definitely off topic) your example for a run using SRAM is a developer intended NG+ mode. I believe the dirty sram rule was created with that in mind moreso than glitches involving warping to the end of the game. Further discussion of this should be done in a different forum, though.
If you don't want to TAS with SRAM, that's fine, I'm sure such a TAS would be very entertaining. Much more than the "RTA any%".
DKR is different in that regard, a TAS with clean SRAM would be considerably less impressive because you wouldn't have TT. And no, I'm not referring to the glitched newgame+, I'm talking about any% and 100% with TT already unlocked, the RTA standard.
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
As far as I understand it, the TASvideos rule is that you need to use clean SRAM unless you have a good reason not to. Accessing a category that would otherwise be unavailable is normally considered a sufficiently good reason. I think I'd prefer to see the no-SRAM version, though.
Also, I'd be very much against any use of the not-available-in-game cheat codes. (The ones that are available in the game, I wouldn't be against using them after they're discovered in-game, although that would be a different category. However, I suspect that's probably slower?)
