Joined: 5/31/2009
Posts: 4
Thanks. That was the one thing I stupidly didn't think to check >_<
Post subject: How to calculate mario's speed? (SMW)
Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 545
Location: Where?
Well I'm planning to TAS this game for fun and time killing. I go read the super mario world tricks, but I don't understand clearly some 1: How to know the right frame to release → for the running? 2: I don't understand 6/5. 3: How to do the 1/1 swimming? By a newbie.
Skilled player (1402)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I don't know much about the game, but bobmario511 posted some tutorials for it on youtube. I think this movie answers your first question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3aK-BATtJw
Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 545
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Hey I,ve never thought it would have tutorial about tas on youtube. well thanks you for the links! :)
Post subject: Re: How to calculate mario's speed? (SMW)
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
niamek wrote:
Well I'm planning to TAS this game for fun and time killing. I go read the super mario world tricks, but I don't understand clearly some 1: How to know the right frame to release → for the running?
If you're using gocha's SNES9X Memory Watch program, release -> the frame before the osciallation hits its' highest point (49 for running, 51 for flying, 52 for Lakitu Cloud glitch.) If you're using SNES9X's built-in Memory Watch, release it two frames before.
2: I don't understand 6/5.
6/5 is used to take advantage of the hopping glitch while keeping your P-Meter full, so you can go from doing the hopping glitch back to running if need be. While in mid-air, you release -> for six frames; Mario's speed stops oscillating while this is done. Then you hold -> for five frames; this oscillates Mario's speed back to its' original value, and recharges the P-Meter. Then you repeat as many times as necessary.
3: How to do the 1/1 swimming?
This one I'm not sure on; I never got far enough in my Second Reality Project Reloaded TAS to need to do it. Watching the published 12-exit SMW run, I'd guess you basically alternate on <and> every frame.
Previous Name: boct1584
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
I was going to do sdw any%, but I've been on the first three levels for a few months with no signs of progressing, so I stop. mi1: no new info. my wip starts at entering mi2 in the current published run. the current run doesn't enter on the first possible frame :D mi2: while doing 6/5 and going down a slope, you can get a spot where your speed instead of going 49,49,49,49,49,49,48,47,48,47,49... it goes like 49,49,49,49,49,49,47,48,47,49 or something like that. so you get a 6/4. this can be done twice on the slope right before the the midway gate. my wip of mi2 is faster than all others that i have compared it to. mi3: if you have troubles getting high enough to open the flower and not fall in the pit, try a 6/10 instead of 6/5 at the pipe right before the last goomba there. it allows you to land higher on the goomba. watch the wip in that spot at frame advance before you tell me what i just said is confusing. maybe your position won't make it necessary. mi4: c1: do not take the secret exit!!! this is new. si: dw1: dw2b: this is a faster method than ism wip posted by Mister. It does not require you to get hurt, so you can keep the flower that you need to complete DP. DP: desert secret: get yoshi and the shell. yes, you have to backtrack. c2b,wsw,dsw,csw i don't recall any improvements. keep yoshi! look at the ism wip for c2b. ssw: i haven't actually confirmed that you can get yoshi through this level, but i think i recall doing some basic guesswork and convinced myself that not a significant amount of time would be lost. psw: this is why you still have yoshi. and why you got a shell. and why you did desert world instead of msw. bsw: improvement posted by Mister. bdsw: if you have less lag, lava slide might be faster than the method used in the current run. If you have lots of lag like this demo, lava slide is slower. bowser: Good luck with fadeout lag. iirc desert route saves something like 7 seconds over going through msw. here is my wip. it doesn't get very far :P There's also something like 4 minutes of improvements available in sdw120. maybe i'll make another incoherent post.
Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign aqfaq Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Sorry to hear you're quitting jimsfriend.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 545
Location: Where?
Thanks you. :)
Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 545
Location: Where?
Speaking of Super demo world, I am making a TAS just for time killing(I've made many small mistakes). But I have an idea for this tas, but I don't even know if it's or might be possible. Here is the idea: [URL=http://img692.imageshack.us/i/ideau.gif/][/URL] I was wondering if it's might be possible to go under. because I try to not use mushroom, flower, feathers or yoshi(To harder the things). We can find shells, shyguys, and a blue P switch. Do you think is might be possible?
Post subject: another sdw idea
Player (172)
Joined: 12/28/2007
Posts: 235
Location: Japan, Sapporo
I'm sorry to hear sdw any% was stopped. We have independently thought sdw any% routes, but we never thought the psw idea. It's really surprising :) After reading jimsfriend's PM, a few ideas seem to come alive, such as ssw yoshi wing exit. Let me write down a brief summary: up to ssw: The same route as jimsfirend's. ssw: Use a shell to get yoshi wing exit, which is around 950 frames faster than normal exit. The former movie is not optimal, though. This route is what we planned before, but we had no good psw ideas, so it had been a dead route for a long time. isw: I expect less lag because of absence of yoshi. psw: Use two keys to boost through a ceiling, which is around 800 frames slower than the above yoshi boost. Thanks to jimsfriend for giving me a hint! ;) Totally, this route saves somthing like 150 frames additional to the above route.
Retired because of that deletion event. Projects (WIP RIP): VIP3 all-exits "almost capeless yoshiless", VIP2 all-exits, TSRP2 "normal run"
Former player
Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 424
Location: UK
Here is the result of running my Super Mario Wold comparision script on the published any% runs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieFFCRQBIeo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imsRpZ-WEds See here http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6539&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=175 for a description of the script. Note that the runs are re-synced at the beginning of each room. Otherwise, the fast runs would quickly outpace the others, and there would be much less action. The overworld shows the true timing, though. The runs shown are those by (in order of speed) Mister, Fabian, JXQ, Flagitious, Neuhaus, Volkov and Bladegash. The number of frames each run was behind Mister at room entry is shown at the top of the screen.
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Joined: 6/15/2005
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Very much enjoyed watching that, thanks amaurea. It's somewhat frustrating to see Mister improve pretty much everything in a run you've worked that hard for though :)
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Player (172)
Joined: 12/28/2007
Posts: 235
Location: Japan, Sapporo
I almost finished smw any% run and have some trouble deciding when the ending starts. I found that we can stomp earlier the first mechakoopa of third phase, so bowser is beaten a little earlier. But in this new method, we can't get enough height to drop the last mechakoopa. If we release it just above bowser, mario gets hit away or gets hurt (this looks bad), so we keep mario away from bowser. Otherwise, we kick up the mechakoopa under bowser. Both of the two beat bowser faster but takes more frames to stop the input than the previous method. Compared to the latter one (smwbowser1.smv), in the former movie (smwbowser2.smv), the input stops 5 frames earlier but mario is farther from the princess, so it takes more frames to reach the rest of the ending. If we decide that the ending starts when the princess appears, the former movie wins. If we decide that the ending starts when the massage appears, the latter wins. I'm very confused now. Would you tell me which route you think should be used?
Retired because of that deletion event. Projects (WIP RIP): VIP3 all-exits "almost capeless yoshiless", VIP2 all-exits, TSRP2 "normal run"
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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
I remember back when we did our runs, we discussed the same things. My feeling was/is that the priority should be: 1. End input early 2. Defeat Bowser early (3. Reach princess early) 3 is really not an issue to me, I think the first 2 points are much more important. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I believe at least a few of the "team" (JXQ, jimsfriend, skamastaG, thegreginator, DK64) had a different opinion from mine, and felt defeating Bowser early was the most important. I might remember incorrectly, though. Looking forward to seeing this, all the same!
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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Joined: 11/30/2008
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Location: a little city in the middle of nowhere
I agree with Fabian here, except for me, reaching the princess wouldn't even register as a priority.
Measure once. Cut twice.
Player (223)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 399
I'd list priorities like this: 1. Defeat Bowser early 2. End input early 3. Reach princess early. And I actually value reaching princess early too. You may notice that you have to compromise here. Can't please everyone. So it's really just up to the author. Doesn't make a huge difference whatever way you choose to end your TAS.
<adelikat> I've been quoted with worse
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I always found it silly that smw runs don't aim for ending input as fast as possible. Other runs on the site use very clever tricks to end input early; I can't think of other runs where slower frame-of-reference endings are sought after. Walking to peach is so very low priority in my mind, so you shouldn't even worry about that. I remember once testing a method of ending input early by using the cape, bouncing on top of the last mechakoopa, jumping and floating as high as possible, throwing the mechakoopa really high up, and letting you take damage from bowser if necessary. Another thing to think about is that in the neverending quest for perfection in the game, you may not want to leave the 'end input early' out of it because you may wind up with a movie file where the only way it can be faster is if input is ended sooner. And how feasible is a new submission where the only faster thing is ending input earlier? If you take the 'defeat bowser sooner' method, you're essentially forcing each new smw run to use the same timing; timing which is more similar to SDA, not this site. In one of the runs I'm working on, I'm planning to take the 'end input earlier' approach (even though I'll take damage) that previous runs don't take for this specific reason of aiming for lowest possible time.
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Player (172)
Joined: 12/28/2007
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Thank you guys! I decide to set priorities as: 1. Defeat bowser early 2. End input early. I don't include "reaching peach early". I'm going to submit the run as soon as I finish writing the main part of our submission text. The remaining part will be added later.
Retired because of that deletion event. Projects (WIP RIP): VIP3 all-exits "almost capeless yoshiless", VIP2 all-exits, TSRP2 "normal run"
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Location: Quincy, MA
Awesome! I've been waiting for this one for some time. :)
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
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Location: a little city in the middle of nowhere
I have to agree with andrewg here.
Measure once. Cut twice.
arflech
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Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
Why does the "key in keyhole" sound lack the upward pitch in all of the runs? It just seems to go down in pitch without going back up and peaking, and oddly it sounds like that in the SDA run too. Have I just lost my hearing since back when I was 7 and played that game almost every day?
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Active player (353)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
sorry for off-topic:
arflech wrote:
Why does the "key in keyhole" sound lack the upward pitch in all of the runs? It just seems to go down in pitch without going back up and peaking, and oddly it sounds like that in the SDA run too. Have I just lost my hearing since back when I was 7 and played that game almost every day?
I don't want to wreck your day, but the pitch is there :P you might want to play it back in Snes9x and try some different audio settings though
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
arflech
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Posts: 1120
I found the real problem: My right speaker is very weak:(
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Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
When I played SMW as a kid, the display I used was an old monitor we used to have connected to a C64k. I remember being amazed at the improvement in the music when I finally figured out how to get both sound channels to play.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
arflech
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Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
On a related note, I now know why the music for the Star Road sounds to washed-out.
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