Bimmy and Jimmy at it again, this time they brought guns.
This is my long awaited two player contra run. It is 948 frames (15.8sec) faster than architorture's submission. It is 552 frames (9.2sec) faster than Genisto's 1 player run after adjusting for the ROM change. (Otherwise it is 2168 frames faster than Genisto's).
It is also faster than a "theoretical" 1-player run (a run that includes the jumping glitch of lv1 and other tricks) by 294 frames. Because of this I think it should obsolete Genisto's run rather than be published along side it.

New Tools

Like my Gradius movie, I used a macro patch for FCEU to allow me to spit out a specific button combo with a single click of a button. This was used to optimize the spread gun in the base levels.
I also used a "multi-tracking" patch which allowed me to record input for a short segment, then record over it with additional input. This allows me to record each player separately. This was extremely useful for the base levels and boss fights.

Weapon Choice

For levels 5-8, the ideal weapons will be a spread gun for each player plus 2 rapid upgrades each (Rapid upgrades increase the speed of the player's bullets).
However, dual spread guns is sub-optimal for the two base levels due to lag, the inability to get 2 rapid upgrades for player 2, and the limitation of the number of bullets on the screen. The 2nd best weapon in the game is the basic weapon which can shoot 4 rapid fire shots. I use a 1 spread, 1 regular weapon set up until level 5.

Rom Choice

Like Architorture's 2-player run and my Pacifist run I use the Japanese version of Contra. This allows me to skip the between level screens saving about 1667 frames over the course of the run. The Japanese version of the run also has more interesting level designs; particularly lv5 & lv8.

Improvements

Optimizing the Spread Gun.

The hardest aspect of making this run is the spread gun. Normaly, it shoots a spread of 5 bullets out in different directions. However there is a 10 bullet limit on the screen (per player). By strategically angling the spread you can cause 1 bullet to leave the screen before the others. If you fire at this moment, you get a single bullet. If you repeat this process you get a single line of bullets firing at a particular direction. This is especially exploited in the base levels. This single line technique was used by Genisto.

Single Spread optimization

In the base levels, Genisto shoots enemies in order to achieve the single spread. Once you have this single spread, you must continue to fire in order to maintain it. This gives you seemingly little control over when bullets hit their targets. However, with a lot of planning you can slowly alter the formation of the bullets. You do this by firing 1 less than the number of "rows" you have. (If you have a spread of 5 rows, shoot 4). Then wait some frames to fire the final row. This will pull one of the rows back. Repeat the process for each row, and over the course of many spreads, you can change the position of each bullet. By planning ahead at the beginning of each room, I was able to get each bullet to be 1 frame apart and hit the targets at the first possible opportunity. This saved a good deal of time in each base level.

The level 3 jumping glitch.

This was used extensively in my pacifist run and used once in genisto's run. By moving left or right while jumping you can cause the player to jump a few pixels higher or LOWER by manipulating the vertical scroll. This can be used to reach platforms normally unattainable. Also, with this run I used it to lower all other jumps, resulting in 1-2 frames saved for each jump.

Boss Fighting

Bosses can only lose 1 hp per frame. If you hit him point blank with a spread gun, it will do 5 damage over the course of 5 frames. The trick then, is to do a steady amount of damage rather than blast him with two spread guns. Bosses can be overloaded with incoming damage that some bullets will pass right through them (you will see this happen occasionaly in the run. It can't always be avoided since you must shoot a certain amount of bullets with the spread gun). The fastest possible boss fight would then be to begin damage on the first frame that its hp is loaded into memory, and do 1 damage until it is destroyed. Most/all boss fights were done within a few frames of this theoretical fastest completion.

Summary & Special Thanks

  • Uses FCEU.16 with macro & multi-tracking patches.
  • Uses death to save time
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses programming errors in the game.
Thanks to HerooftheDay for help with the spread gun and for a time saving trick in level 1, Miau for his macro & multi-tracking patches to FCEU (which were critical in making this run). Thanks to JXQ, Brushy, Zurrecco, Cardboard, and Baxter, for motivation & listening to me ramble about the game.

Level by Level commentary

Level 1

Fairly simple level. Jumping costs 1 frame so the main challenge it to minimize jumping. I get a spread gun for player 1 and 2 rapid upgrades as well. I used a the regular gun + spread combo to improve the boss significantly. However, with two players, the boss does not become vulnerable until 40 frames later, so I only had a net savings of a few frames.

Level 2

The first base level. The best weapon choice for the rooms of this level would be two regular weapons or two lasers. However, it loses time overall due to slower level 1 & level 2 boss fights. I was able to optimize the spread gun into 4 rapid fire blasts that hit the icons on the first frame possible. This combined with a well timed blast from player 2 meant that I hit each icon in the fastest possible time.
To maintain this 4 row formation of the spread gun, I must keep shooting it for the entire level. To get this formation set up in the first place, I must shoot human enemies.
The boss fight was greatly improved by the use of 2 players and use of the spread gun.

Level 3

The jumping glitch was used to land on high platforms several times. One extra was found compared to my pacifist run (I guess I should redo it now :/)
I also used it to minimize the height of other jumps. This saved 1-2 frames on each jump, which added up by the end of the level. I do not get a 2nd spread here either because level 4 will be slower.

Level 4

More tedium with optimizing the spread gun. I also change the number of rows up to 8 for some rooms but down to 4 in others. 4 is necessary to optimize rooms with only 1 icon. The spread+regular weapon out performed the two laser strategy by architorture by about 80 frames in the rooms of this level.

Level 5

This is the major loss of adding the 2nd player. The tanks stop much later than with a 1 player run. I lost 208 frames from this. The boss was significantly faster though, making it a net loss of 160 for the level compared to Genisto.

Level 6

Luck becomes a problem here. Overall I fared better than architorture but about the same as Genisto in the timing of the flames. The boss was destroyed within 1 frame of the theoretical limit and with minimal stopping. It looks more like a casual stroll rather than a fight :)

Level 7

Lag costs a lot of time here compared to a 1 player run. Also, the 2nd player keeps me from exploiting the extra momentum from one of the carts. The boss was only marginally faster than genisto's because the boss isn't vulnerable until 40 frames later due to having 2 players. Overall, I lost 59 frames compared to a 1 player run.

Level 8

The mini-boss was done only a few frames faster than Genisto due to lag. The final boss was done perfectly, 1 hp per frame. But Genisto also did this with 1 player so it was a push.
Well, that is about it. Enjoy.

Truncated: Accepting. I strongly recommend this movie obsoleting the current 1-player movie, because it is both of higher quality and has more action going on. A third category for this game would be superfluous.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15583
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1451: adelikat's NES Contra in 08:57.98
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Wow, and just under 9 minutes, too! Too many subtle points of joy to list here. A very great improvement, to be sure. Yes vote the whip. Didn't someone say that Genisto's run would only be improved upon by slight frames or something? And here you are beating it by almost 10 whole seconds.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
Voting yes, it was fairly entertaining and an excellent improvement. Only thing that annoyed me a bit was constantly missing some shots (If those shots even missed).
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Nice movie :), clear yes vote. Must have been hard optimizing spread gun, and chosing when not to use it for one player.
jaysmad
Other
Experienced player (932)
Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 629
Location: Mom's
I liked it! Brought back many souvenirs. Though there was some missed shots i thought it was so that you get an early quick shot at the bosses but i don't know. Still .... Yes vote.
Joined: 6/12/2006
Posts: 368
Voted yes, those tools sound pretty cool.
Joined: 12/20/2004
Posts: 226
Give the bosses a chance, you meanie :( Honestly this run was pretty awesome, you just ran through everything like it was nothing.
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Very nice run, awesome improvement to the current run. Voting yes, great job adelikat!
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
This run was completed too fast. It felt like you never stopped for a frame, you just kept going and going :) voted yes.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Another yes vote on top. Excellent improvement, both tech-wise and entertainment-wise.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Former player
Joined: 2/12/2007
Posts: 105
Vote: Yes Nice you finish the Contra (J) under 9 Minutes, because I watched your Contra (J) speed run that will skip the Scoreboard and Rest screen saving more time. I saw Player 2 died from Stage 3 because I watch you when Player 2 is trying to overlap Player 1 after when Player 2 has died, trying to perform the Jumping Glitch in Stage 3. Sound Player 2 Died in Stage 3: Gryzor Player2 Died Sound Snapshot Player 2 Died in Stage 3: Great job, adelikat! This will obsolete the Genisto's 1P run instead of publication. Area6 Quote of the Day in Starfox64: Caiman: "The last line has been breached!" Venomian Army Commander: "These guys are crazy!"
Banned User
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
Yes.It is good.Congraulations! If you let all two men have weapon "S"in the stage1,can it be faster?
work hard
Former player
Joined: 2/12/2007
Posts: 105
西坡 wrote:
Yes.It is good.Congraulations! If you let all two men have weapon "S"in the stage1,can it be faster?
No, because two Spread in all stages can cause lag. Blue men have Spread, Red men have Normal Gun, because it can be faster.
Banned User
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
So that's how it is. Do you know how to fire as fast as Genisto's run by fceu in stage2,4? I find if you fire in same frequency,you will not do the same as Genisto.Press "B" and press "B" again after one frame,is the highest frequency,but it is not what we want.I find if you use fceu,you can fire in any frequency,so I try every frequency.My conclusion is that if you fire in lower and lower frequency or higher and higher frequency,you can make the same effect like Genisto.But it is very hard,it need exact computation.Another method is you can fire with pressing "left" and "right" in the same time.
work hard
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
Beautiful. Lots of (seemingly unnecessary) destruction- this run and the pacifist run complement each other well. Yes vote.
Experienced player (614)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 612
Tearin' 'em up man, just simply tearin' 'em up. This run exerts too much goodness so I feel I'm obliged to vote yes.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
I find it funny that the guy without the spread gun destroys the targets in the base levels the fastests. :) Making every every jump in the vertical level a few pixels lower must have been tedious, but the end result looks great at least.
Former player
Joined: 2/12/2007
Posts: 105
Truncated wrote:
I find it funny that the guy without the spread gun destroys the targets in the base levels the fastests. :) Making every every jump in the vertical level a few pixels lower must have been tedious, but the end result looks great at least.
It can depend on the Luck Manipulation on how to do the Jump Glitch in Stage 3. Ok, accept the Contra (J) run and it should obsolete Genisto's 1P USA Speed run instead of publication along the side.
Player (52)
Joined: 10/6/2005
Posts: 138
Location: Oregon
I vote meh. I find two-player runs in general to be boring, as usually effective strategies (i.e. two players with spread) are bypassed because of lag. Also, the second player a lot of the time turns out to be superfluous, in that it's necessary to intentionally kill him off because having two players on the screen at that point is bad, and to me, if you're intentionally getting rid of the second player at any point, a two-player run seems unneeded. As for Contra, watching one player decimate all the enemies is way cooler than watching two players doing it. When one player does it, it looks amazing and unbelievable; when two players do it, it's more believable because, well, there's twice as many bullets. Also, I hate how on occasion both players align and it looks like there's only one player, or how both players are doing the same thing at the same time, so it makes it seem like having the second player is worthless. In summary, I don't really like two-player games. I don't think Contra benefits from having two players instead of one; in fact, I think it suffers. Very well-made run, though.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
>... usually effective strategies (i.e. two players with spread) are bypassed because of lag. This is not the reason, if you read the description. The spread is slower than the regular weapon for the base levels. I agree that having them do the same thing sometimes is a bit bland, but I think it can't be helped.
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 380
Location: Finland
I was quite entertained by this movie. I don't see a problem using 2 players, for me it signals that author went that extra mile to actually play and coordinate the actions for two characters simultaneously, even if the end result looks slightly more trivial. And anyway, I can't resist massive destruction like in this movie. ;) Edit: About replacing the old movie, I didn't re-watch it now, and it's been quite a long time since I've actually seen it, so don't take my 'yes' vote as 'yes and obsolete' but rather as 'yes, publish in form deemed best'.
"Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home." ( Pratchett & Gaiman: Good Omens )
Player (52)
Joined: 10/6/2005
Posts: 138
Location: Oregon
Truncated wrote:
>... usually effective strategies (i.e. two players with spread) are bypassed because of lag. This is not the reason, if you read the description. The spread is slower than the regular weapon for the base levels.
the description wrote:
dual spread guns is sub-optimal for the two base levels due to lag
I assumed that meant that the normally effective strategy of using spread was bypassed because of lag. Unless we're misunderstanding each other.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
>I assumed that meant that the normally effective strategy of using spread was bypassed because of lag. Unless we're misunderstanding each other. No, it's me misunderstanding the description. Sorry, my bad.
Experienced player (544)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Guybrush wrote:
Voting yes, it was fairly entertaining and an excellent improvement. Only thing that annoyed me a bit was constantly missing some shots (If those shots even missed).
agreed this movie is really entertraining and musics are pretty good gameplaying was excellent to my eyes those missed shots annoyed me a bit but who cares about this so much ? well i used to play this game when i was a "child" nice improvement(s) i'd like too see this getting published really soon.. Voting YES BossMaster
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Tmont, sounds like you read and saw what you wanted to.
"adelikat's lovely submission text wrote:
However, dual spread guns is sub-optimal for the two base levels due to lag, the inability to get 2 rapid upgrades for player 2, and the limitation of the number of bullets on the screen.
Lag was just one of many reasons listed here. Had there been no lag, it still would have been a sub-optimal choice. And player 2 is not superfluous in this run. He comes in handy on all boss fights. In level 3, I find it creative that he is killed. I do this in order for him to catch up to player 1 without losing time. I can do this because I haven't yet upgraded his weapons therefore, his life is expendable at that moment. The players are synced up in that level in order to perform the jumping glitch. I don't think this takes away from the movie since that part is still intersting due to this glitch. Other places where they are synced up, it is because both players are moving to their goal as fast as possible. I don't think it would be a good idea to have one slow down just so they are separated. Whenever possible I take different paths with the two characters when it doesn't lose time. I don't see how you can think 2 player runs are less entertaining. 2 players = more strategy, more action, and more difficult TASing scenarios. I could have finished a 1 player run in a fraction of the time it took me to do this run. EDIT: As far as missed shots, keep in mind that these aren't due to sloppiness but rather from optimizing. To achieve the fastest damage on the boss, some shots need to miss their target so that others may hit at the right time.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects