Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
The Quad run set off a whole blaze of ideas for any other sets of games that, when played with the same controller, would give similar, and cool looking results. The many so far suggested bigame ideas are scattered throughout the forums and on IRC, so here will be the comprehensive wishlist for people to suggest what games they want to see completed at the same time.
However: not all games played together would make a good dual/quad/tri/quasi/whatever run.
I think it'd actually be best if the bigame runners: DeHackEd, Baxter, and Angerfist, made their way here and gave the list of what makes a good bigame run. They picked the best candidates, and they looked closely at the games, and tested immensely to see what would happen, and showed that their choice of game was flawless.
For those that don't know the definition, bigame run is having one movie file that completes more than one game at the same time. The methods for how to make such a run, and some in progress, can be found elsewhere.
Start making wishlist ideas. Here some criteria/things to think about when making suggestions:
A bigame run has games that, with the same input, flow together smoothly.
Be careful in what games you suggest; you must list a good/logical/technical reason for why they would work well together.
Of note, the two Megaman big game runs (Quad and dual X/X2) are absolutely PERFECT candidates. watch those runs/wips to get a sense of why the games work so well when played at the same time.
Games that have ignoring input, where one game can do something, but the other can't, is good. MegaMan games are good; when you're sliding in a Rockman game, you can't jump or go left and such. these kind of movement restrictions are good. transition scenes are good, where the character does not move.
The games should have about the same ending time. a 1 minute and a 5 minute game do no go well together, since only the first minute is hard. make sure they end pretty close to each other.
Think about what crazy input will do to the game. If all of the games go right at the same time, that is probably a good thing. If the games have to go in different directions, you may have running against walls a lot of the time.
The games might be better if they share at least the same genre, and preferably gameplay. an RPG and a shooter next to each other might not work so well. Games in a series that have almost identical gameplay, like MegaMan, are good candidates.
So 'dems the suggestions/(rough) rules. Go!
For the longest time I thought it was spelled "biggame" too, but it's more like "bi-game".
I'm too lazy to list reasons right now but here are some top-of-the-head suggestions to shoot down:
- Anything + Pinball
- Battle of Olympus + Zelda II
- Bionic Commando + Hitler no Fukkatsu (or not)
- Contra + Double Dragon 2
- Gimmick + Rescue Ranges
- Kirby's Avalanche + Tetris Attack
- Lolo-type games?
- McKids + Doki Doki Panic
- Super Mario Kart + Super Off Road
- Umihara Kawase + Wild Guns
Contra + Double Dragon 2. With 2 players.
The current TASes are both a little under 10 minutes.
I'm trying to imagine how this would look. Billy and Bimmy are walking along, occasionally kicking air for no reason. Red-pants contra guy stops and jumps to the left while firing a single bullet at nothing. Both contra guys aim upward for awhile...
Edit: I need to learn to write faster.
Nitsuja wrote:
Hmm... In RCR, what would happen if you held B while running? If nothing, than RCR and SMB1 would be interesting. Occasional segments of both being fast, occasional "some slowness" and occasional epileptic seizures on the part of one game. The fastest RCR is 8:10. while the best Mario is 5:00. So the focus would be on RCR (I.E, if something slows down the RCR run, but isn't necessary for the Mario run, it won't be done).
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Dromiceius wrote:
Contra + Double Dragon 2. With 2 players.
The current TASes are both a little under 10 minutes.
I'm trying to imagine how this would look. Billy and Bimmy are walking along, occasionally kicking air for no reason. Red-pants contra guy stops and jumps to the left while firing a single bullet at nothing. Both contra guys aim upward for awhile...
Edit: I need to learn to write faster.
Nitsuja wrote:
- Contra + Double Dragon 2
*shakes fist* ;)
kinda hard since contra is "go right" while DD2 isn't. It's easier to see contra + smb1
kinda hard since contra is "go right" while DD2 isn't. It's easier to see contra + smb1
Yeah... that level with the vanishing platforms would bring the run to a screeching halt.
Chamale wrote:
Hmm... In RCR, what would happen if you held B while running?
I think it could be workable. You press B, Alex kicks, then press >, > to run.
Of course, if Mario needs to jump, you'll punch and stop running.
RCR also has the backtracking problem like DD2- you have to go left for awhile at some points.
How about two autoscrollers? Galaga + gradius, perhaps?
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comicalflop wrote:
...you must list a good/logical/technical reason for why they would work well together.
The previous multigame TAS authors chose games that they already knew very well. Previous tasing experience with the games helps a lot since you already know how the games behave at the frame level. Also, you'll be spending a lot of time watching the familiar games from a new perspective and need to find new ways of doing things. This may eventually lead to new discoveries and improvement ideas for the original single game runs. For this reason only, I'd try doing all my current movies simultaneously. If only Gens had that possibility...
I think a bigame movie should feature these things:
(1) Have similar movements, with the same buttons. - This is the only way a bigame movie makes more sense than just the concept of it. This is the only thing that will make watching both movies at the same time will have any meaning. (This for instance excludes Pinball... I think it was mentioned because it would be easy to do a movie with pinball, since pinball input wouldn't affect other games very much, which means the movements won't correlate, so I think there is no point in this.)
(2) Have similar graphics. - I think it's more obvious the games come from one input file if the character that's being controlled looks the same.
(3) It should be popular games. - A bigame movie will be much more impressive if people actually know what's going on the the games seperately.
(4) The games should be about the same length. - There is no point in making a 1 hour TAS, which also completes a 1 minute TAS... it can hardly be called a bigame movie. The whole idea of a bigame movie is gone.
(5) It shouldn't be more than four games. - Four games can form a 2 by 2 grid. More games would just make it impossible to really watch them all at the same time.
At this point, I can only think of two multiple game movies I'd be interested in seeing:
Ninja Gaiden 1, 2 and 3 - Basically has all things I mentioned and is original because 3 games haven't been done yet. (2 and 4 have)
Contra and SuperC 2 players - Has all things I mentioned, except that the lengths aren't completely the same (3 minute difference). It will be original because it would be a bigame movie, which controls two characters.
I'd be interested if people can think of some other original ideas for multiple game movies, but at this point, I think these two I mentioned are the only two I'm really interested in (since they both have something original. To be honest for instance, I don't think the SMB 1, 2, 2J, 3 run is a really good idea.
I personally would like to see a movie file which beats an obnoxious amount of games, like 10 or so, just for the novelty of it. Of course, the games could be played as poorly as necessary, I just think it would a neat thing to see.
(4) The games should be about the same length. - There is no point in making a 1 hour TAS, which also completes a 1 minute TAS... it can hardly be called a bigame movie. The whole idea of a bigame movie is gone.
To add to this, I think that a high-quality bigame TAS should aim to end both games at the exact same time. In other words, the last input of the movie file should be the last input necessary to finish both games. Or in other words, one game shouldn't end before the other and then just get the additional obsolete input which does nothing useful.
I believe the Megaman X1+X2 run does precisely this?
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Nitsuja wrote:
Umihara Kawase + Wild Guns
What? Where's the connection?
One that would really look good would be Contra:Hard Corps + Gunstar Heroes.
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Bisqwit wrote:
I think that a movie that beats Zelda 1 as quickly as possible but also beats Zelda 2 in a playaround kind of style would be a good watch. You could adjust the goals of the Zelda 2 portion to match how long the Zelda 1 movie will be. Perhaps simply return all crystals using whatever glitches.
It would not be a dual TAS per se, but more a 'special feature' of the regular Zelda 1 TAS.
Initial testing indicates that this is probably doable. I have had a hard time keeping everything in both games synced in the past though...
Ahh, I'm getting a little tired of multiple runs done.
I mean, the X/X2 idea was creative and original. now its not.
I mean like, its ok to watch 2 games done at the same time, its easy to keep track of. but 4 can be a mess. Same thing with the megaman quad run. It's too hard to watch all 4 vids doing the same thing. sometimes they dont. IMO, I dont like the idea, sorry.
This was my post in a mario quad run idea. Anyway, my opinion to these types of runs should already be said.
Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat 2 (or pretty much any two fighting games). This would work best if the characters are actaully synchronized (as opposed to the pseudo-synchronization of most games)
Two of: Flashback, Prince of Persia, Out of this World.
Not sure how well that would go, but Metroid: Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion, maybe? I'm guessing that the linearity of the latter might work against a birun of these for some.
Not sure how well that would go, but Metroid: Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion, maybe? I'm guessing that the linearity of the latter might work against a birun of these for some.
Won't really work because of near 1:2 run length ratio, not to mention the absense of dominant movement direction (which is right for most sidescrolling games). :\
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 4/30/2006
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Location: the secret cow level
huh... Flashback + PoP could actually be pretty cool, given the similarity of their gameplay... the only problem I see is the times.
Out of this World (USA v1.0) in 15:25.57
Flashback (USA) in 23:54.57
Prince Of Persia (JPN) in 34:01.65
those times are on different systems, though... that might make a big difference.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Genesis is not short of Gradius style shooters:
Bio Hazard Battle
Fire Shark
Grey Lancer
M.U.S.H.A.
Raiden Trad
Lightning Force
Air Buster
Arrow Flash
Burning Force
Curse
Dangerous Seed
Forgotten Worlds
Master of Weapon
Sagaia
Slap Fight
Space Harria II
Steel Empire
Thunder Force II, III
Twin Cobra
Verytex
Zero Wing
There's a plethora of vertical, horizontal, and foward scrolling games, I'm sure some of them can be construed into a quad+ movie.
