Posted: 7/27/2007 10:14 PM
Post subject: un-publishing/obsoleting process
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Twelvepack
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
I think it might be worth adressing some of the worse runs that are still in the system. Rather then "faster then an existing movie" being a guarenteed publication, it might be time to revise the process. Being faster then an existing movie should remove the obsolete movie straight away, then the new movie should be voted on for its own merits,not just rubber stamped into publication.
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Posted: 7/27/2007 10:27 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
This is a terrible idea. What if the faster version is less entertaining by an extreme amount (i.e. doing a repetitive glitch to beat the game) but not glitchy enough for it to warrant a different category. Despite the movie being significantly faster I would not want this hypothetical movie to instantly obsolete a movie that's already published. You can't generalize these things. Also, "unpublishing a run" before the new run has been watched/accepted spells disaster. I think the system we have now is fine. What made you think we have to make a change?
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 7/27/2007 10:33 PM
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upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (388)
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Posts: 1802
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DK64_MASTER wrote:
Also, "unpublishing a run" before the new run has been watched/accepted spells disaster.
I think the idea is that if the new run isn't worthwhile, the obsolete run is even less so. This would be a way of getting games that should never have had runs published removed from the site. I agree with the sentiment, that there should be an unpublication process, but I don't think the suggested method is necessarily a good way to go about it.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Posted: 7/27/2007 10:55 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
upthorn wrote:
I agree with the sentiment, that there should be an unpublication process, but I don't think the suggested method is necessarily a good way to go about it.
I still firmly believe that a run that has been legitimately accepted should not be unpublished (double negative). It might create tension with the author, and fans of the game. I hate to open a can of worms, but for example, what would happen if we unpublish "tribes?" (which is one of the few games off the top of my head that would be up for the "unpublished debate" even though I haven't even watched the movie, or know what it the game is about). What games do you think should be unpublished without a newer run to replace it? SMB2 princess only?
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 7/28/2007 4:03 PM
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Twelvepack
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
upthorn wrote:
I think the idea is that if the new run isn't worthwhile, the obsolete run is even less so.
exactly. You put it a little more clearly then I did. What is annoying is when a boring game has a faster, but still boring movie, and it gets publication because its "superior to an already published movie"
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Posted: 7/28/2007 4:09 PM
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adelikat
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Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3599)
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Location: Tennessee
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I am against unpublishing movies.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 7/28/2007 4:09 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
There is some demand for unpublishing / preobsoleting. For example, JXQ has indicated a wish for there to be means to mark a published movie suboptimal when a better movie has been submitted, but not yet published. Before the publication of the database-backed version of Nesvideos site, I often had the habit of updating the movie text of the old movie with a note something like "This movie has been improved, a new movie will be published soon!". Perhaps some editors could volunteer to do similar work here? :)
Posted: 7/28/2007 4:17 PM
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Vatchern
Player (84)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Bisqwit wrote:
Before the publication of the database-backed version of Nesvideos site, I often had the habit of updating the movie text of the old movie with a note something like "This movie has been improved, a new movie will be published soon!". Perhaps some editors could volunteer to do similar work here? :)
Is there really a need to do this?
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 7/28/2007 4:29 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away
That makes sense only if the successor movie will definitely be finished, which can't be predicted reliably until the fact of submission. At the same time, a submitted improvement already has high enough chances to be published, especially if it has been known to be in production (most of the sub-par movies come either anonymously or without any prior notifications, so that no-one is able to judge the quality beforehand). Marking a movie suboptimal likely isn't a very wise thing to do, mainly because nearly all movies contain known improvements, and some of those improvements become known even before the actual submission, and it isn't well definable at what point to consider a movie improvable. For example, it's known that by the moment of writing this paragraph, JXQ's Super Metroid TAS contains over 30 seconds of confirmed improvements throughout, yet it has a very high tech rating and isn't going to be improved any time soon. Should one mark it as suboptimal? What about Genisto's SMB3 which by now also has known improvements and the new run is known to be in production (but who knows when and if Nitsuja is going to finish and submit it)? The same goes for Sonic 2 and S3&K runs, 96-exit SMW run, LoZ, Megaman 2 and so on. What to do with them? It's difficult to draw a line between "clearly suboptimal" and "good enough", especially with floating optimization standards coming from unavoidable ignorance and a bit less unavoidable game favoritism. For me, having a substandard movie on the site doesn't indicate that the site doesn't keep its standards, rather the opposite: it indicates that the standards are rising and only those successor movies that comply to them would be able to pass. Besides, it allows for higher dynamic range in tech rating.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 7/28/2007 4:55 PM
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Vatchern
Player (84)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Its hard to rely on tech rating when it is a biased system.
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 7/28/2007 9:58 PM
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ZeXr0
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
Vatchern wrote:
Its hard to rely on tech rating when it is a biased system.
That's a good point, most of the time, improvement get published, but we ask taser to lost some frame to improve the enjoyment. Most of the times, if you wait long enough, you'll be able to post an improved version without caring about the last one which aim for entertainment. You can't rely on rules that regulates the movie, if the way they are published aren't regulated.
Posted: 7/28/2007 10:09 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away
Wait, how is tech rating even relevant here? I used it to make a totally different point, which never emphasized the rating's reliability, nor a way for it to regulate anything.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.